The Law Poses Two Questions...

[p_rehbein]

...for the Church as well as unbelievers:

1) Is the Law still in effect today?

2) Who does the Law apply to today?

Question 1 has a simple answer, Yes.

Question 2 is where much confusion and false teaching comes from. The Law today ONLY applies to those Jews who deny Jesus as the Promised Messiah, and continue to try and live under the Law. The Law DOES NOT apply to the Church! For those believers who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives, the Law is of NO EFFECT! I know this because it is what both Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught.

The most definitive passage of Scriptures explaining this that I have found appears in the 3rd Chapter of Galatians.

1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

2 5But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It is clear to me, and should be to all who understand what Paul teaches here that ANY who come here stating that we, the Church, are still under and must obey the Law are indeed FALSE TEACHERS! They do not simply misunderstand what Paul wrote, they intentionally pervert it IMO.

Simply put: IF one is a blood bought, born again, believer in and follower of Jesus, and an Heir to the Promise, that person IS NOT BOUND TO OBEY OR IN DANGER OF BEING JUDGED BY THE LAW OF THE FIRST COVENANT! Any who try to teach such are FALSE TEACHERS.

Ephesians, Chapter 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Take heart my friends, and worry not, rather, hold strong the FAITH!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to our gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? ……Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh,( before we died with Christ through baptism ) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭

“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free

from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬ ‭KJV‬

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: …… knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4,

 

[Nehemiah6]

1) Is the Law still in effect today?

To some degree for Gentile Christians. See Acts 15.

 

[wattie]

...for the Church as well as unbelievers:

1) Is the Law still in effect today?

2) Who does the Law apply to today?

Question 1 has a simple answer, Yes.

Question 2 is where much confusion and false teaching comes from. The Law today ONLY applies to those Jews who deny Jesus as the Promised Messiah, and continue to try and live under the Law. The Law DOES NOT apply to the Church! For those believers who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives, the Law is of NO EFFECT! I know this because it is what both Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught.

The most definitive passage of Scriptures explaining this that I have found appears in the 3rd Chapter of Galatians.

1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

2 5But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It is clear to me, and should be to all who understand what Paul teaches here that ANY who come here stating that we, the Church, are still under and must obey the Law are indeed FALSE TEACHERS! They do not simply misunderstand what Paul wrote, they intentionally pervert it IMO.

Simply put: IF one is a blood bought, born again, believer in and follower of Jesus, and an Heir to the Promise, that person IS NOT BOUND TO OBEY OR IN DANGER OF BEING JUDGED BY THE LAW OF THE FIRST COVENANT! Any who try to teach such are FALSE TEACHERS.

Ephesians, Chapter 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Take heart my friends, and worry not, rather, hold strong the FAITH!

All well and good. But if you believe salvation can be lossed, then you HAVE to keep up a standard of good works, thereby still bound by some law standard.

 

[homwardbound]

All well and good. But if you believe salvation can be lossed, then you HAVE to keep up a standard of good works, thereby still bound by some law standard.

I see this: if one does (Think they can lose salvation given), then God (who knows who is who and what is what) will teach each of those in God, revealing truth to where they took a long walk off a short pier in trying to get it done of themselves again. So many times have I thought I got it and never had got it. Until one (me) (I) learns it is all God that did what is done for us to be born again in his love and mercy of Son given us, the risen ones after that cross for us are new and eventually lknow this truth, that has taken away all sin for us to walk new in God's type of love (1 Cor 13:4-7) with mercy , and be thankful, not trying to do what no flesh nature can do perfectly ever, proven in the first Chosen to us the Gentiles at least me. Thank you Father and Son for your done work for me and all to walk new in the same love and mercy you gave through Son for us on that cross to us. Given to each in your resurrected Son in Spirit and Truth to now lead over that first born flesh and blood nature first born in

 

[p_rehbein]

All well and good. But if you believe salvation can be lossed, then you HAVE to keep up a standard of good works, thereby still bound by some law standard.

Not true. Christians are not perfect, and will sin on occasion. All sin separates man from God, however, those believers who have become heirs to the Promise have the blood of Jesus to cover their sins. All one has to do is ask for forgiveness, and it will be granted by the blood of Jesus. Some say we only have to ask forgiveness once, but Jesus taught us to pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

As often as we pray. Good works will not cleanse one of sin, never. Good works are a fruit of salvation. As for the Law of the New Covenant, yes, it is the Law of Faith as stated by the Apostle Paul.

 

[Cameron143]

For the believer, sin separates us from the blessings of salvation, not salvation itself.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 10:4

 

[Inquisitor]

All well and good. But if you believe salvation can be lossed, then you HAVE to keep up a standard of good works, thereby still bound by some law standard.

Good works are not the works of the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

...for the Church as well as unbelievers:

1) Is the Law still in effect today?

2) Who does the Law apply to today?

Question 1 has a simple answer, Yes.

Question 2 is where much confusion and false teaching comes from. The Law today ONLY applies to those Jews who deny Jesus as the Promised Messiah, and continue to try and live under the Law. The Law DOES NOT apply to the Church! For those believers who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior of their lives, the Law is of NO EFFECT! I know this because it is what both Jesus and the Apostle Paul taught.

The most definitive passage of Scriptures explaining this that I have found appears in the 3rd Chapter of Galatians.

1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

2 5But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

It is clear to me, and should be to all who understand what Paul teaches here that ANY who come here stating that we, the Church, are still under and must obey the Law are indeed FALSE TEACHERS! They do not simply misunderstand what Paul wrote, they intentionally pervert it IMO.

Simply put: IF one is a blood bought, born again, believer in and follower of Jesus, and an Heir to the Promise, that person IS NOT BOUND TO OBEY OR IN DANGER OF BEING JUDGED BY THE LAW OF THE FIRST COVENANT! Any who try to teach such are FALSE TEACHERS.

Ephesians, Chapter 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Take heart my friends, and worry not, rather, hold strong the FAITH!

The Jews are not bound by the Mosaic Law today.

Israel is a democratic society with an elected government.

God does not legislate law in Israel the elected Government generates the law.

They have much the same legal code as every other country on earth.

 

[p_rehbein]

For the believer, sin separates us from the blessings of salvation, not salvation itself.

Sin separates us from God. However, the difference is that for a believer, sin does not have dominion over them, but a believers sin must be atoned for. If one "returns to their own vomit," one is apart from God, and eternal salvation is certainly in danger should that person not repent and return to God.

Those who die in sin are dead for eternity. If this is not true, then God is not a Just God. We know that God IS a Just God. Jesus tells us to pray for forgiveness when we pray.

 

[Cameron143]

Sin separates us from God. However, the difference is that for a believer, sin does not have dominion over them, but a believers sin must be atoned for. If one "returns to their own vomit," one is apart from God, and eternal salvation is certainly in danger should that person not repent and return to God.

Those who die in sin are dead for eternity. If this is not true, then God is not a Just God. We know that God IS a Just God. Jesus tells us to pray for forgiveness when we pray.

One who returns to his own vomit isn't a believer. Those that die in their sins are not saved. So yes, they are separated from God, and have always been. I'm referring to believers.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sin separates us from God. However, the difference is that for a believer, sin does not have dominion over them, but a believers sin must be atoned for. If one "returns to their own vomit," one is apart from God, and eternal salvation is certainly in danger should that person not repent and return to God.

Those who die in sin are dead for eternity. If this is not true, then God is not a Just God. We know that God IS a Just God. Jesus tells us to pray for forgiveness when we pray.

Amen this also is incredibly important regarding our judgement

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We should live by this law of liberty and mercy that our judge has given because we weren’t perfect

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mercy for the merciful if we are merciful forgiving and don’t go about condemn and judging everyone as if we have some sort of high ground that’s how the lord will treat us this day we all must face

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This day is a true appointment to all mankind .when it happens we want to have heard and believed the words of the judge who said be merciful and you’ll receive mercy don’t judge and you won’t be judged don’t condemn and you won’t be condemned we can trust him

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I see this: if one does (Think they can lose salvation given), then God (who knows who is who and what is what) will teach each of those in God, revealing truth to where they took a long walk off a short pier in trying to get it done of themselves again. So many times have I thought I got it and never had got it. Until one (me) (I) learns it is all God that did what is done for us to be born again in his love and mercy of Son given us, the risen ones after that cross for us are new and eventually lknow this truth, that has taken away all sin for us to walk new in God's type of love (1 Cor 13:4-7) with mercy , and be thankful, not trying to do what no flesh nature can do perfectly ever, proven in the first Chosen to us the Gentiles at least me. Thank you Father and Son for your done work for me and all to walk new in the same love and mercy you gave through Son for us on that cross to us. Given to each in your resurrected Son in Spirit and Truth to now lead over that first born flesh and blood nature first born in

What do you do with scripture like this that repeats throughout the Bible’s New Testament ?

paul is writing this to the church at rome

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are we meant to ignore that and just say it’s not true and we’re saved ? I’ve talked with many who hold your view there but I’ve never gotten an answer about if we’re supposed to accept what Jesus and his apostles taught the church about thier judgement .

what are believers to do with the plain scriptires telling us how to be saved and how to not be damned ?

 

[homwardbound]

Jesus taught us to pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

There is a before the cross and an after the cross

before the cross I must forgive and love to get forgiven and loved by God! to Gert saved by God

After the cross I see in belief , he is risen and I am forgiven and loved by God In response to that truth I forgive and love all as called, the same as Son revealed to us all in his earth walk in flesh and blood that reconciled us all to be born new by God Father of it all. Thanks


Romans 8:1-3

New International Version

Life Through the Spirit
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

 

[homwardbound]

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Those people this speaks of, are possibly go-gooders of themselves to get their own wealth here, now on earth, that God knows whether or not they are his or not


Romans 8:15

New International Version

15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[a] And by him we cry, “Abba,[b] Father.”

And each person knows this truth in themselves as well, for God says, God will be the Judge.
There will be many that say, hey God I did this and that for you. God might say I, do not know you, you who have worked iniquity

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is the good one works, of the self or of the done work of God working it out through them?
God knows who are who and who are not
Thanks for the response

 

[homwardbound]

One who returns to his own vomit isn't a believer. Those that die in their sins are not saved. So yes, they are separated from God, and have always been. I'm referring to believers.

maybe they are, what????????????????????????????????????????

God seals each person to hear and know truth even while they are in sin as in


Ephesians 1:13

New International Version

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

God, thanks to Son's done work for us all as reconciled (2 Cor. 5:17-20). Takes us in and begins the new training of what gettin g born again is for us to receive it willingly and stop sin



1 John 2:1-4

New International Version

2 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Love and Hatred for Fellow Believers
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

I, for years did not do right (God continued to love me in his mercy and truth, seeing I would stop), I continued and wanted to and did not as talked of in Romans 7 by Paul to us. Then after years of not quitting belief to God in Son as risen for me and all others too to be able to, I got new born new from God and see how stupid, ignorant it is to continue any sin that goes against God as David did inn the story of King David a man after God's own heart.

The born again new person from Father of the risen Son, does not sin anymore over time in learning and not giving up on God in God's promise of us to be born new in him.
God knows who will turn from sin, and might not at first, yet want to. this truth in belief that continues to want to not sin again, sees to stop sin, yet not of themselves ever doing it. God did it by Son for us all to believe, receive and see new. Once that is done the 1 John 2:1-12 gets fulfilled in us. And we only see to walk presently, never in the future, We cannot predict any future and see to not worry over any future either, since God has that taken care of for us in continued trust to God, after my personal many years of sin, I had done, still being continual in me and many people that do believe God, get the realization of what true born again is, and stop sin as always wanted to. Thank you.


God won by Son for us to be new in his love and mercy given us to do, and not see it as us, doing it, God alone does it through us, thank you
if God does not get all the credit, then the truth of God to me, is not from God or is it? I chose God gets all the credit


Colossians 1:21-23

New International Version

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Those people this speaks of, are possibly go-gooders of themselves to get their own wealth here, now on earth, that God knows whether or not they are his or not


Romans 8:15

New International Version

15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[a] And by him we cry, “Abba,[b] Father.”

And each person knows this truth in themselves as well, for God says, God will be the Judge.
There will be many that say, hey God I did this and that for you. God might say I, do not know you, you who have worked iniquity



Is the good one works, of the self or of the done work of God working it out through them?
God knows who are who and who are not
Thanks for the response

So what do we do with what the scripture actually says ? Do we just pretend it doesn’t say what it says ?

This is who Paul was writing to

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: to all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is what he wrote to them

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I’m asking you is what do you do with what it plainly says and can’t really be avoided ?

“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “

Do you see how this just says what it says ?

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”


What do we do with the things the bible teaches to the church regarding a subject like eternal judgement ? Which is plainly said here to the church at rome .

aim not asking you to ignore what it says and tell me more of what you think , I’m just honestly asking you what do we do when we study the Bible and it just says clearly and plainly what it says and invites us to believe ?

Do we just ignore what God has said and say “grace we’re saved ?”

 

[wattie]

What do you do with scripture like this that repeats throughout the Bible’s New Testament ?

paul is writing this to the church at rome

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

are we meant to ignore that and just say it’s not true and we’re saved ? I’ve talked with many who hold your view there but I’ve never gotten an answer about if we’re supposed to accept what Jesus and his apostles taught the church about thier judgement .

what are believers to do with the plain scriptires telling us how to be saved and how to not be damned ?

The reverse of the Romans vs is not necessarily true. Eg 'don't do these deeds and you won't have eternal life '

The verse is saying they will have eternal life, but not that it is conditioned upon deeds, because that would contradict a whole raft of other scriptures.

So it becomes more like good deeds being done in response, because of having eternal life.

Similarly to being baptised 'for' the remission of sins.

That is being baptised because remission of sins has been given. It's the right response to salvation, not the way of salvation.

The key to the Romans verse is to compare it with Romans 10 or Romans 5. Or John 3:16 for that matter.

Againt the reverse of this Romans verse is not true. Justification for eternal life is not daily service.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The reverse of the Romans vs is not necessarily true. Eg 'don't do these deeds and you won't have eternal life '

The verse is saying they will have eternal life, but not that it is conditioned upon deeds, because that would contradict a whole raft of other scriptures.

So it becomes more like good deeds being done in response, because of having eternal life.

Similarly to being baptised 'for' the remission of sins.

That is being baptised because remission of sins has been given. It's the right response to salvation, not the way of salvation.

The key to the Romans verse is to compare it with Romans 10 or Romans 5. Or John 3:16 for that matter.

Againt the reverse of this Romans verse is not true. Justification for eternal life is not daily service.

“The verse is saying they will have eternal life, but not that it is conditioned upon deeds, because that would contradict a whole raft of other scriptures.”

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we simply reject what it says

“God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: “

“but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,”

and your reasoning is it disagrees with other scripture ?

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you know what’s missing ? Any scripture explaining any other different judgemet it’s always been the same

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I know we want to pretend that it doesn’t matter what we do , but in the end we need to repent and believe the truth if we don’t we’re going to perish like the lord has said