The Letter to the Romans...

[Elin]

Romans 11 shows that there is a future for Israel.

Yes, if they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23). It is conditional.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, if they do not persist in unbelief (Ro 11:23). It is conditional.

Some of Israel's turning to the Lord again will, I believe, happen after the church has gone.

 

[homwardbound]

Now, could we go on with the last of Romans 6? It talks of what it means to be under grace, not law, being freed from being slaves to sin and replacing that with being slaves to righteousness. Interesting!

I think another way of saying it is that under law we would have to use the law for our salvation, so being under law would result in our death. Being under grace, we are under Christ for our salvation. So, for the love of Christ, for taking on Christ in our very beings, we work mightily for righteousness. We turn our backs with repentance on any sin.

Yes, and just maybe ask God fro the exchanged life? My life for his to,live through me not just in me as Christ did, For he said it all the works he did are from Father and he sent the very same Holy Ghost to lead us, to follow by Faith (trust) in father's lead, maybe?

 

[homwardbound]

Is there a Scripture instructing us to bless anyone?

quoted by Elin

Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.



Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.


Luke 6:28 bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, in Ro 6 we begin the practice of sanctification.

Maybe better put the understanding it is all God and none of me, "I" just follow through trusting God to do in me what I know I can't do in self, and therefore die daily as if I am dead to flesh sin, and ali9ve to God in Spirit and truth

 

[homwardbound]

You are confused.

I know I am, and God is not, thanks are you confused ?

 

[homwardbound]

Justication and santificatin are a matter of faith.John declares that faith without the obedience to it is unknowable.Santificatin is what I have alwas learned as being set apart,by gods grace, for Gods use not a matter of obedience. Hopefully obedience will follow,being the proff of faith, but not of human works but by the grace given us through the indwelling Spirit of God working in us who beleive,and shew our faith or beleif by the works of god in us

At Pentecost, where the disciples alive in flesh or dead in flesh held alive by the Holy Spirit of God? Why did they have to wait for the indwelling? they knew the truth, Jesus after resurrection held out with them for forty days and told them why all these things came to be.
Do you not think you, we need to wait to recieve from God this same gift to tell truth as it is truth, he died for the sins of us all, today is the day to beleive and receive new life in the resurrected Christ and do as God did through Son , you think? Is it a free gift from God or not?

 

[homwardbound]

Works of odedience are the works of christs spirit within us ,not fleshy deeds to justify ourselves, although this does aboud today and early on , we must be born again.

Can't see the kingdom without being born again in the Spirit of God and reckon self dead to flesh sin, held back alive by God's power, not any of our own
I am thus, you are thus as well crucified to the world and the world crucified to you. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Father thank you

 

[homwardbound]

I don't understand all this talk of works, obedience, faith, sin, the old man, works won't save like it is all separate ideas. They are a unit. Some people grab hold of "works won't save". Others that "faith without works is dead". They think of it all as separate items of God, one more important than the other. It isn't. It is a balanced unit from our Lord. They are a natural result of being born again in Christ, and going to Christ to learn of Him.

They all are equal explanations of God's plan for us. We go to grace to understand what a holy majestic God we have. We go to works and obedience to express our faith. We turn from sin and put on Christ.

There is a difference in flesh works and Spirit works of God through one's flesh Sister, is that agreed upon?

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[Elin]

I know I am, and God is not, thanks are you confused ?

Are you confused?

For my statement was not addressed to you.

 

[RedTent]

There is a difference in flesh works and Spirit works of God through one's flesh Sister, is that agreed upon?

Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Our separate views of "flesh" is almost funny, we are both right. You see it as a human spirit who wants behavior contrary to God, and you are right. I see it as a body that can contain the spirit of God, that can act in obedience to God through that spirit, that can be obedient and love Christ. I think of the world that God created, the wonders of the world He created, and how our actions can be an expression of those wonders of the spirit, for instance when we love God.

I think of my body as the temple of God, of being cleansed by God and made whole through Christ when I go to Him. I realize I am born in sin through Adam, I always need Christ, there is such joy in knowing of the grace and cleansing that means.

 

[Elin]

quoted by Elin

Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the Lord of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.



Romans 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.


Luke 6:28 bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Thanks for those.

 

[Elin]

Justication and santificatin are a matter of faith.John declares that faith without the obedience to it is unknowable.Santificatin is what I have alwas learned as being set apart,by gods grace, for Gods use not a matter of obedience. Hopefully obedience will follow,being the proff of faith, but not of human works but by the grace given us through the indwelling Spirit of God working in us who beleive,and shew our faith or beleif by the works of god in us

Agreed.

But I would add that the meaning of sanctification is "set apart, from sin, and to God."

So it involves the obedience of faith, if we are not to sin.

 

[Elin]

I think a real sticking point and misundrstanding is that justification by human work and work done by the Spirit of god dwelling within us are two differant things, For in the flesh dwells no good thing,and it is only by baptism into his death and being born again ,not of corruptabl seed by the word od God give meaming to being born again ,by the Spirit, It is the spirits works that arein us that are holy and good. Work unless meaning the works of the old man are ment to be Christ working through us ,which indeed is holy and the only exceptable works that are not sin. For christ does not sin,whether in us or outside of us, Christ in us is the true Gosspel,making us his sons and daughters of the kingdom of God. stenghtening us to do the work of the minisrty, But if not baptized into his death through the opperation of faith, we are non of his and only perpetuate the hypocracy of false religion ,which Paul says many are being defiled.It is hard to truley die and come out of the world . ther is much suffering and humliliation, which is our cross as it was the lord,

Keeping in mind that no kind of work is involved in justification,

for justification is to be declared rightwise with God; i.e., guiltless, righteous, right standing before him,

because one's sin has been forgiven--through faith alone, which saves from the wrath of God on sin.

Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77), through faith alone, which justifies.

 

[Hoffco]

It is a simple , clear Bible fact, that with out the resurrection power of God converting the sinful heart of the sinner, we could never see one soul saved. Salvation is of The LORD. Therefore ,EVERY time we witness, WE must WAIT for the act of GOD to save, convert, the sinner we are talking to. I witness to many, I am an evangelist, and EVERY time, before praying the SINNER'S prayer, I ASK, has GOD make this clear to you, Is GOD moving you to receive Christ into Your life To save you and Rule over you as your LORD? I ask them to repeat it to me, (if time permits) on a jeepee, I don't have time or the freedom, to do all this; But, I can ,(in two minutes) explain, repent, trust and obey JESUS. Because only converted, good people go to heaven. This is what the BIBLE teaches, only the righteous are saved. This is what Rom. 1,2,6,7,8, teaches; only sanctified ,holy people go to Heaven. If you can not agree, don't witness to anyone , because you will seal them in their sin and to Hell. What is in your life, your living, is explainable only by God's work of power and mercy in you? And don't said that all I am commanded to do, I don't ready do it, God does it for me. This is the old Gnosticism, that the Bible condemns as heresy. My living in the power of God is not the same as God doing it thru me. God does His part and I do my part by the Grace, power and love, of God. WE are worker with God. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Elin]

It is a simple , clear Bible fact, that with out the resurrection power of God converting the sinful heart of the sinner, we could never see one soul saved. Salvation is of The LORD. Therefore ,EVERY time we witness, WE must WAIT for the act of GOD to save, convert, the sinner we are talking to. I witness to many, I am an evangelist, and EVERY time, before praying the SINNER'S prayer, I ASK, has GOD make this clear to you, Is GOD moving you to receive Christ into Your life To save you and Rule over you as your LORD? I ask them to repeat it to me, (if time permits) on a jeepee, I don't have time or the freedom, to do all this; But, I can ,(in two minutes) explain, repent, trust and obey JESUS. Because only converted, good people go to heaven. This is what the BIBLE teaches, only the righteous are saved. This is what Rom. 1,2,6,7,8, teaches; only sanctified ,holy people go to Heaven. If you can not agree, don't witness to anyone , because you will seal them in their sin and to Hell. What is in your life, your living, is explainable only by God's work of power and mercy in you? And don't said that all I am commanded to do, I don't ready do it, God does it for me. This is the old Gnosticism, that the Bible condemns as heresy. My living in the power of God is not the same as God doing it thru me. God does His part and I do my part by the Grace, power and love, of God. WE are worker with God. Love to all, Hoffco

You do not understand justification.

 

[faroukfarouk]

'Not of works, lest any man should boast' (Ephesians 2.9)

 

[Hoffco]

You people just don't know God. God saves! Faith does not save.Works do not save. We are dead. dead man to nothing, until God makes us seek Him. Jesus came to seek and SAVE sinners. We do not seek God until God seeks us, and motivates us to seek Him. God uses us to motivate sinners, But in the end , all the glory go to God who saves us. With out the Baptism of the Spirit we could never be saved. Without the heart circumcision of the Spirit we would never be saved. Of course, sal. is not of works, sal. is UNTO good works. and "without holiness", no one will be "saved." I trust in Christ's righteousness and not my own, then I seek to be perfected by my works, working by faith, thur grace, that believes God is "a rewarder of all who diligently see Him." I am not talking of justification ,but of sanctification. with a little touch of justification mixed in; sanctification is what we "feel" "experience" ; justification is what we accept by faith and work out in good deeds. We can not know Justification, for sure, with out experiencing the new birth first and the continual grouth in sanctification. Sal. is a living relationship with God in Jesus. You teach a sal. without the living relationship. no such thing.! 1Jh. totally condemns your sal. by "faith only" so does James 2:24. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Elin]

You people just don't know God. God saves! Faith does not save.Works do not save. We are dead. dead man to nothing, until God makes us seek Him. Jesus came to seek and SAVE sinners. We do not seek God until God seeks us, and motivates us to seek Him. God uses us to motivate sinners, But in the end , all the glory go to God who saves us. With out the Baptism of the Spirit we could never be saved. Without the heart circumcision of the Spirit we would never be saved. Of course, sal. is not of works, sal. is UNTO good works. and "without holiness", no one will be "saved." I trust in Christ's righteousness and not my own, then I seek to be perfected by my works, working by faith, thur grace, that believes God is "a rewarder of all who diligently see Him." I am not talking of justification ,but of sanctification. with a little touch of justification mixed in; sanctification is what we "feel" "experience" ; justification is what we accept by faith and work out in good deeds. We can not know Justification, for sure, with out experiencing the new birth first and the continual grouth in sanctification. Sal. is a living relationship with God in Jesus. You teach a sal. without the living relationship. no such thing.! 1Jh. totally condemns your sal. by "faith only" so does James 2:24. Love to all, Hoffco

You do not understand justification.

 

[homwardbound]

Are you confused?

For my statement was not addressed to you.

Yes, coming from as body here on earth that is unredeemed, seeing what Paul is trying to tel, us about this fight is about flesh wanting its own way.
All, you seem to ever say to Hoffco is he is confused. mWhen we all are in and to some extent or another, and we all have truths to tell to each other
Galatians 4:29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh

This is just what I see and how this changed me, God revealing this to me as God has revealed much to you too and Hoffco as well
Not protecting anyone here, and not condemning either with "You are confused" Praying you get it Sister