The Letter to the Romans...

[Karraster]

Rev 5 does not answer why Peter, James, John and Paul do not even mention

1) a future temporal earthly kingdom

2) in their letters of instruction and teaching to the churches.

Again, all of the New Testament was a continuation of the Old Testament. Each writer had things to convey, but they all agree with the old Testament. Messiah is written about all through the Old Testament. Believers of the early first century had only the old writings, and in them you will find Paul quoted a lot. He was a Torah expert, and you must have knowledge of the old to understand the new.

And...you do know Revelations came from Messiah to John, right?

Those who say the old is no longer important, cannot interpret the new, for there is no way to understand a brief mention without reading the source that fully explains it. That's where man's imaginations have filled in the many blanks, because they reject the Word that was first delivered to the saints.

2 Peter 3:[SUP]16[/SUP]as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So wrestle away Elin, but you will find it impossible to understand Paul without drawing from sources he quoted.

 

[Elin]

Rev 5 does not answer why Peter, James, John and Paul do not even mention

1) a future temporal earthly kingdom

2) in their letters of instruction and teaching to the churches.

Again, all of the New Testament was a continuation of the Old Testament.

This does not answer, as Rev 5 does not answer, the questions above.

Nor is the NT just a "continuation" of the OT.

In the NT, the Levitical priesthood is set aside and replaced with the priesthood
in the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11-12), where its new eternal High Priest is
both Priest and King.
That's not a continuation, that's a new order (Heb 9:10).

In the NT, the change of the priesthood required a change of the law (Heb 7:12),
which was based on the Aaronic priesthood (Heb 7:11) for its administration.
That's not a continuation, that's a new order (Heb 9:10).

In the NT, the law has been set aside, because it was weak and useless
for righteousness (Heb 7:18-19).
That's not a continuation, that's a new order (Heb 9:10).

In the NT, the old covenant is made obsolete (Heb 8:13; 2Co 3:11).
That's not a continuation, that's a new order (Heb 9:10).

In the NT, the Mosaic law has been replaced with the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2).
That's not a continuation, that's a new order. (Heb 9:10)

In the NT, the old mediator Moses has been replaced with the new mediator, Christ.
That's not a continuation, that's a new order. (Heb 9:10)

In the NT, believers are reigning with Christ now (Eph 1:20, 2:6).
That's not a continuation, that's a new order (Heb 9:10).

Etc., etc., etc.

you must have knowledge of the old to understand the new.

Your understanding of the old is based on interpretation of prophetic riddles,
which can be, and are, validly interpreted by others to mean things entirely different.

Without a pause, you set uncertain private interpretation of prophetic riddles

against certain and specific NT teaching to the churches,

preferring your uncertain interpretation of propietic riddles over apostolic teaching in the letters to the churches.

As I stated previously, this problem is above my pay grade.

But at least we know the cause of all your errors regarding NT teaching.

2 Peter 3:[SUP]16[/SUP]as also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So wrestle away Elin, but you will find it impossible to understand Paul without drawing from sources he quoted.

Most "interesting" application. . .when it is you that is wrestling against what Paul specifically and

unequivocally states in the NT. . .in favor of your uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles.

Most "interesting". . .

 

[jag1977]

Locate the life - saver, it is the guide to be completed prior to finding the hidden. After it comes the destruction of evil, faith, new, old, even love!!! Etc etc etc.....

 

[Hoffco]

Karraster, Sorry man, your post 801 just revealed you as a Judaizer. You are really wacko, your view of the New T. is off the wall. Please tell me what Bible do you have? Is there such a thing as a Judaizer bible? Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Elin, is there such a thing as a Judaizer's bible? Love to all. Hoffco

 

[Elin]

Elin, is there such a thing as a Judaizer's bible? Love to all. Hoffco

I really don't know.

What is the ESV?

 

[Karraster]

Again, all of the New Testament was a continuation of the Old Testament. Each writer had things to convey, but they all agree with the old Testament. Messiah is written about all through the Old Testament. Believers of the early first century had only the old writings, and in them you will find Paul quoted a lot. He was a Torah expert, and you must have knowledge of the old to understand the new.

And...you do know Revelations came from Messiah to John, right?

Those who say the old is no longer important, cannot interpret the new, for there is no way to understand a brief mention without reading the source that fully explains it. That's where man's imaginations have filled in the many blanks, because they reject the Word that was first delivered to the saints.

2 Peter 3:[SUP]16[/SUP]as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
So wrestle away Elin, but you will find it impossible to understand Paul without drawing from sources he quoted.

Karraster, Sorry man, your post 801 just revealed you as a Judaizer. You are really wacko, your view of the New T. is off the wall. Please tell me what Bible do you have? Is there such a thing as a Judaizer bible? Love to all, Hoffco

Wacko? Well, please indicate my error. Calling me names is childish, and unbecoming a "pastor" if in fact you are. (which I doubt)

 

[Hoffco]

Karraster, Please , What denomination are you? Tell me what Bible college did you graduate from? And what Bible do you use? I can not trust a thing you say any more. the N.T. was all written by 65 ad. except Revelation in 96 ad.. The Old T. does not interpret the New T.. this is off the wall, crazy. The N.T. is all based on the teachings and writings of the original Apostles of Jesus Christ. The church had the apostles and then their writings before they died; First hand knowledge. Love Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

Karraster, Sorry I can not tell you what denomimnation I am of; Because, I am so "wacko" no one receives me into their fellowship. BUT, LOVE to all, even you and Elin LOL. Keep it light hearted. Love Hoffco , Doug

 

[Elin]

Wacko? Well, please indicate my error. Calling me names is childish, and unbecoming a "pastor" if in fact you are. (which I doubt)

Well, one of them would be:

And he has revealed that the rapture (1Th 4:16-17) and the
resurrection specifically occur at the end of time with the new earth (Ro 8:19-21),
which allows for no temporal earthly kingdom after the rapture.

[SUP]Revelations 9 [/SUP]And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and
we shall reign on the earth.

That is Rev 5, not Rev 9.

That prophetic riddle can just as validly be interpreted to mean the church age,

where the church is the fullness of Christ (Eph 1:22) and the fulfillment of the ages (1Co 10:11),
so there can be no other temporal age after the church, and where

God's people are reigning with Christ now (Eph 1:20, 2:6).

 

[weakness]

Karraster,post 747 is a Smoke bomb. to draw away from the truth I said. "all Scriptures is given by inspiration of God" but some has only a temporary application. The ordinances of the Old T. were temporary as was the sabbath keeping ; but the sabbath keeping principle is good for man. it was made for the good of man, so we should keep a day of rest ,any day. the forced Sab, is not longer wanted;because the N.T. is now pointing to our eternal REST, not one spicific day. Love Hoff

I have gone back a few pages to try and get some context to this spool of twisted fishing line and am begining to think it cannot be untangled but needs cut off and to start over. Some times people get so..... caught up in proving there point they forget what it is , or start saying things without thinking about them. I was thinking this mouring why do almost all of the threads eventually end up argueing the same 10 or 15 topics. Is that all you know? or all you think are important. most do not do much for my edification after hereing the same unresolved topic 100 times. I appretiate the disscussion but there seems to be truth mixed in with falsehood , which I have been seeing, since I started here ,without ceasing. Is this a one trick pony? Or do you just feel argument is a substitute for knowledge,love ,meekness,gentleness, or real fruits of the Spirit dwelling in you? At this point I think our groth in the lord seeming what it is, we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and be quick to hear and slow to speak. I really am sorry but this disscussion is so messed up and part right part wrong up, and down.I don't know where or even want to know where to chime in. It's a disgrace, get it dis,,,,grace, God help us all !!!

 

[Karraster]

I have gone back a few pages to try and get some context to this spool of twisted fishing line and am begining to think it cannot be untangled but needs cut off and to start over. Some times people get so..... caught up in proving there point they forget what it is , or start saying things without thinking about them. I was thinking this mouring why do almost all of the threads eventually end up argueing the same 10 or 15 topics. Is that all you know? or all you think are important. most do not do much for my edification after hereing the same unresolved topic 100 times. I appretiate the disscussion but there seems to be truth mixed in with falsehood , which I have been seeing, since I started here ,without ceasing. Is this a one trick pony? Or do you just feel argument is a substitute for knowledge,love ,meekness,gentleness, or real fruits of the Spirit dwelling in you? At this point I think our groth in the lord seeming what it is, we should work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, and be quick to hear and slow to speak. I really am sorry but this disscussion is so messed up and part right part wrong up, and down.I don't know where or even want to know where to chime in. It's a disgrace, get it dis,,,,grace, God help us all !!!

Agreed. I would sincerely like to study Romans with anyone interested. I get the feeling that the same person is using more than 1 identity on this thread. Either that, or they have a multiple personality.

 

[Hoffco]

Weakness, I agree, but, don't want to follow my gut and quite, while people are talking and I might win then to the truth in the Bible. Please hang in, and share the truth as you see if , and see if a good may come out of it. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

Homward, We are NOT on the same page, you have totally twisted the Bible, you are a rank liberal. not a Christian, Are you American Baptist? I see this argument from them and other liberals. Love ya, Hoff

No Doug, read it through personally, (the bible) many times, have heard others and take no denominational affiliation, nor belong to any building here on earth, that's just me. Anybody that goes or does nor go, is no problem to me. taking a stand in a denomination or not is not the issue that to me is nothing more than flesh acting good when no flesh is good

I attend the Tabernacle in Heaven:

[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; [SUP]2 [/SUP]a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Christ came to birth us in Father's Spirit and be dead to flesh right?

Did the resurrected Christ do this for you, it is a gift from God through Son, to walk Spirit of God not flesh


Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Love you Doug, from God so deep it is not fathomable to flesh

 

[homwardbound]

God's Amazing love is that He takes Hell deserving sinners, of all favors, and in power and love, God converts them into law abiding citizens of the kingdom of Heaven. LKOve Hoffco

By belief in God's finished work through Son Christ it is done
First sins, all taken away at the death, then we are to see the new covenant and new laws put in place, and new life given to us in the Spirit of Father via the resurrected Christ

All that was and is left after the cross is to Believe or not to beleive. Not to believe is Blasphemy against the Holy GHost the same Holy Ghost that led Christ, desires to lead me and I have accepted for God to lead. God is crying out for all to come to him, his burden light and yoke easy, if one will come to rest and many do not and stay stressed, because of unbelief in God's finished work in Mercy covered all and stays this way to all that beleive adding nothing more to this truth from God to us all
Love you and all unconditionally

 

[homwardbound]

Elin, you and Homwardbound are the ones how need to learn "hermeneutics". your post 768 is the pot calling the kettle black. lol. you need to get rightly dividing the word, and build a good sys, theo. Sorry, Love Ya, Hoffco, Doug

Keep building Doug, keep and if you are still in bondage, then maybe you are building in some error that keeps you in bondage
I mean truth is to set you free, and be free indeed and if one is not free then one is in bondage, and miught need to rethin k building from the ground all over again, as in 1 Cor. 3 I gave up trying to build my own theology and or follow man as Sauol was separated so am I, and God is trying to show you the same for you and all that will just believe, are free. not to do wrong, rather to loove as God does best described in 1 Cor. 13:4-13

 

[Hoffco]

It is not bondage to TRUST and OBEY God's laws. Homward, PLEASE, stop making up lies about me and about God. I have been set free from the law of sin and death, my old sinful nature is not in control. I am controlled by my new nature , and the Spirit of God, God Himself, Father, Son, Holy Spirit., who lives in me. As the Holy Spirit "baptized" me into the BODY of Christ, my old nature was killed. BUT, not totally eradicated, I still must kill sin every day, die to self, put to death the deeds of the old flesh nature. OR, I will not be saved. Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

It is not bondage to TRUST and OBEY God's laws. Homward, PLEASE, stop making up lies about me and about God. I have been set free from the law of sin and death, my old sinful nature is not in control. I am controlled by my new nature , and the Spirit of God, God Himself, Father, Son, Holy Spirit., who lives in me. As the Holy Spirit "baptized" me into the BODY of Christ, my old nature was killed. BUT, not totally eradicated, I still must kill sin every day, die to self, put to death the deeds of the old flesh nature. OR, I will not be saved. Hoffco

Doug, Brother I have never accused you of unbelief, only extrapolating on what God has done for us, it is finished as Christ said in John 19:30 and gave up the Ghost, we are forgiven past tense it is done by God and God alone through Son

Trying to show you when you give up and let God do what you are trying to do in your place, God will do it and you will be freed completed, and grow every day as in you are beginning to know you are dead to flesh and alive to God's Spirit, and that it is not you that accomplishes this it is God alone through you by believing God and none other, taking no credit to self, my dear Brother and friend, I know you desire to be one with God and are, by faith you are, works God's follow this through you. Not by my works, God's we are saved.

[h=3]Romans 4:19-25[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]19 [/SUP]And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb: [SUP]20 [/SUP]he staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; [SUP]24 [/SUP]but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; [SUP]25 [/SUP]who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[homwardbound]

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

What is the only way this can be done? By works or belief in God that through Christ this is done even though one might sin again
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[Hoffco]

To Homward, I have to believe that you are a better Christian than your teaching leads us to think of you. This goes for MOST all real Christians today; They teach "faith only" without the striving to enter the "narrow gate" and walking the "narrow path" to eternal life; But, in reality, they are doing good words of righteousness ,without which they would be lost. You do this because you will not connect all the dots of a fully Biblical theology. You have not balanced your teaching yet, it is loop sided. The tragedy of this "faith only" teaching is,it is leading many to Hell, believing in Jesus as Savior only and not obeying Him as LORD. Love to all, Hoffco, Gen. Douglas McA.... if you believe this, you believe in reincarnation; but I believe in the real "incarnation" of the SON of GOD.