THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY
- Thread starter Sudakar
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Firstly that is not what he was doing and secondly God also doesn't like it when you play ring a round the rosey making false claims about people and cherry picking the bible either.
You are so quick to look at the faults and misunderstanding of others yet you are blind to your own.
And you continue to evade any question ask of you, this is evasive and only shows your unwillingness to take anything that is said to you.
The thing about debates is that is not a one sided thing, you ask questions get an answer ask another question and get asked a question but rarely ever respond with an actual answer.
You are so quick to look at the faults and misunderstanding of others yet you are blind to your own.
And you continue to evade any question ask of you, this is evasive and only shows your unwillingness to take anything that is said to you.
The thing about debates is that is not a one sided thing, you ask questions get an answer ask another question and get asked a question but rarely ever respond with an actual answer.
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Hello again Sudakar, what do you mean by that 
How can non-Christians and Christians, in general, regularly appear to be something that they are not, appear to be the very opposite of what they are, in fact (unless someone is forcing them to act in opposition to their free will) I'm confused by what you're saying here because, to me at least, it doesn't make sense.
I became a Christian at 30, and as a Christian (for nearly 34 years now), I've found that true Christians (typically) act like Christians. If someone ~claiming~ to be a Christian lives/acts like an unbeliever instead, then chances are more than just good that they are not/never were the Christians that they now claim to be .. cf Matthew 7:22-23.
I can tell you that personally, I appear FAR more saved now, as a Christian, than I ever did when I was living the very fun, but very sinful lifestyle that I led as an unbeliever (especially during college and for several years afterwards, until I became a believer). And others, who knew me back then (as an unbeliever), and who also know me now as a Christian, would attest to the same thing, that I am obviously a Christian now, and that I obviously was not back then.
~Deut
How can non-Christians and Christians, in general, regularly appear to be something that they are not, appear to be the very opposite of what they are, in fact (unless someone is forcing them to act in opposition to their free will) I'm confused by what you're saying here because, to me at least, it doesn't make sense.I became a Christian at 30, and as a Christian (for nearly 34 years now), I've found that true Christians (typically) act like Christians. If someone ~claiming~ to be a Christian lives/acts like an unbeliever instead, then chances are more than just good that they are not/never were the Christians that they now claim to be .. cf Matthew 7:22-23.
I can tell you that personally, I appear FAR more saved now, as a Christian, than I ever did when I was living the very fun, but very sinful lifestyle that I led as an unbeliever (especially during college and for several years afterwards, until I became a believer). And others, who knew me back then (as an unbeliever), and who also know me now as a Christian, would attest to the same thing, that I am obviously a Christian now, and that I obviously was not back then.
~Deut
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This isn't @ you specifically, just I appreciate the post.
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Well cool, finally someone has posted something that reflects my "saved" status on this site.
I was hoping someone would bring it up eventually, but it's a bit hard to articulate so that is somewhat helpful. My answer changes each day because I'm a little farther along in the journey. Different elements come to the fore...I also went through the stereotypical "sinners prayer and asking" as one of my earliest memories. I cannot say "the" earliest because I don't have access to the Lord's omniscience
but regardless, despite being stereotypical, it just "was" also. Like oh sure! If that's the way to the Father then of course, why not?
Life has been a long process of asking "why not?" not intentionally the large majority of the time but circumstances and I would presume oppression present a lot of "things" that war against that decision.
Being basically from conscious memory, what I remember of that day (and my mother confirmed it about 8 or so years ago) was quite different from what other people relate when dealing with salvation. Like it's like I knew the Father somehow just from thinking about infinity and the created universe (it was a book about space) I was too young to read, but somehow I understood there was some rather large questions in the pictures.
but yeah, it's like as soon as these revelation was starting to hit me the gospel was preached and I gladly accepted. It's a bit hard to articulate how I've re-understood grace, sin, works all my life sometimes each of these has more of a "spotlight" if that makes sense.
as to the OP...I keep hearing about John McArthur in passing either through debates, or via references, or just recently on a debate about America being in rebellion against the crown (and consequently rebellion against the Lord) OR obeying scripture through civil disobedience, both men I listened to brought up some useful points but that's a topic for another thread. Might be a productive one.
I'll only say that in general I seem to agree with John McArthur with one "side" of me. There's usually some internal debate...it feels to me almost law based and legal but that there is some real "heart" to it as well. I think that's the Lord, but there's also another side that seems to be quite a bit more organic and more "alive" and yet less reachable in my daily life. I'm not explaining it well, but
I do at least agree that Jesus as savior and Jesus as Lord are one in the same but have distinct elements that should be engaged in a believer's life.
Much like Master, Teacher, King, Friend, Bridgegroom, Lord, Savior, etc etc. ALL present different facets of himself that ultimately are beyond each of us, but they are all important to know as the Spirit shows us what they mean for us.
It could be that some have a deeper understanding of Lord than someone else may of Friend or Savior. I'll admit, I like the friend element the most
Oh, I will say that lately I have been stuck in just a lethargic sort of mood where I'm not in the best place with the Lord, and the scripture of "why do you call me Lord..." continues to come up in thought. So even though that is what I traditionally reference when I am praying, just the word Lord has become somewhat hackneyed and the full weight of LORD has been being "reasserted" in regard to Lordship.
I don't care to respond to one sentence questions of the OP but that I probably understand the concept of this Lordship salvation but I'll think about it and perhaps I'll feel led to engage with you Sudakar.
There are ways I would answer each of the questions you have posed to people (in the first 13 pages) myself, but much like another poster, I'd like to see some personal interaction instead of you being the "interviewer" with a rather vague question set.
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Well cool, finally someone has posted something that reflects my "saved" status on this site.
I was hoping someone would bring it up eventually, but it's a bit hard to articulate so that is somewhat helpful. My answer changes each day because I'm a little farther along in the journey. Different elements come to the fore...I also went through the stereotypical "sinners prayer and asking" as one of my earliest memories. I cannot say "the" earliest because I don't have access to the Lord's omniscience
but regardless, despite being stereotypical, it just "was" also. Like oh sure! If that's the way to the Father then of course, why not?
Life has been a long process of asking "why not?" not intentionally the large majority of the time but circumstances and I would presume oppression present a lot of "things" that war against that decision.
Being basically from conscious memory, what I remember of that day (and my mother confirmed it about 8 or so years ago) was quite different from what other people relate when dealing with salvation. Like it's like I knew the Father somehow just from thinking about infinity and the created universe (it was a book about space) I was too young to read, but somehow I understood there was some rather large questions in the pictures.
but yeah, it's like as soon as these revelation was starting to hit me the gospel was preached and I gladly accepted. It's a bit hard to articulate how I've re-understood grace, sin, works all my life sometimes each of these has more of a "spotlight" if that makes sense.
as to the OP...I keep hearing about John McArthur in passing either through debates, or via references, or just recently on a debate about America being in rebellion against the crown (and consequently rebellion against the Lord) OR obeying scripture through civil disobedience, both men I listened to brought up some useful points but that's a topic for another thread. Might be a productive one.
I'll only say that in general I seem to agree with John McArthur with one "side" of me. There's usually some internal debate...it feels to me almost law based and legal but that there is some real "heart" to it as well. I think that's the Lord, but there's also another side that seems to be quite a bit more organic and more "alive" and yet less reachable in my daily life. I'm not explaining it well, but
I do at least agree that Jesus as savior and Jesus as Lord are one in the same but have distinct elements that should be engaged in a believer's life.
Much like Master, Teacher, King, Friend, Bridgegroom, Lord, Savior, etc etc. ALL present different facets of himself that ultimately are beyond each of us, but they are all important to know as the Spirit shows us what they mean for us.
It could be that some have a deeper understanding of Lord than someone else may of Friend or Savior. I'll admit, I like the friend element the most
Oh, I will say that lately I have been stuck in just a lethargic sort of mood where I'm not in the best place with the Lord, and the scripture of "why do you call me Lord..." continues to come up in thought. So even though that is what I traditionally reference when I am praying, just the word Lord has become somewhat hackneyed and the full weight of LORD has been being "reasserted" in regard to Lordship.
I don't care to respond to one sentence questions of the OP but that I probably understand the concept of this Lordship salvation but I'll think about it and perhaps I'll feel led to engage with you Sudakar.
There are ways I would answer each of the questions you have posed to people (in the first 13 pages) myself, but much like another poster, I'd like to see some personal interaction instead of you being the "interviewer" with a rather vague question set.
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More fiction. There are two kinds of books in a public library, fiction and non fiction. For me we get all of the story from King David in Psalm 119:1 "ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD." Why does this present a problem for you. "Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately" (1 Timothy 7) Perhaps this is your issue, you do not know what is good and you only know what is not legitimate". David says: "I have set my heart on your laws."
Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law. (Psalm 119:18)
Give me understanding, so that I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart. (Psalm 119:34)
The law of God is the word of God. If we do not follow the teaching in the Bible we grieve the Holy Spirit.
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless" (Ephesians 5:26,27)
If you do not want to be "rapture ready" - if you want to be "left behind" - if you want to lead others astray - than I guess that is up to you. We need to be very careful what we say to people:
I just wonder why you are so insecure in your faith that you attack and belittle people that believe we should be washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus and live holy and sanctified lives before God.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37)
Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law. (Psalm 119:18)
Give me understanding, so that I may keep your law and obey it with all my heart. (Psalm 119:34)
The law of God is the word of God. If we do not follow the teaching in the Bible we grieve the Holy Spirit.
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless" (Ephesians 5:26,27)
If you do not want to be "rapture ready" - if you want to be "left behind" - if you want to lead others astray - than I guess that is up to you. We need to be very careful what we say to people:
I just wonder why you are so insecure in your faith that you attack and belittle people that believe we should be washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus and live holy and sanctified lives before God.
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:37)
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No person believing the biblical doctrine of so-called LS believes “Salvation…comes from a life lived in obedience…”
That and nowhere on page 93 did MacArthur make your above “quote.” See for yourselves:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NcLwhTDBICgC&pg=PP3&source=kp_read_button
Looks like your boy Thomas M. Cucuzza did a little embellishing and conflating of MacArthur's words, which is slander. His statement in his book “Secure Forever” is not what MacArthur said in his opening statement of chapter 6:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...ed in obedience and service to Christ&f=false
I just wanted everyone to see the embellished lie on MacArthur and be reminded not to believe anything and everything a person quotes. MacArthur has been both misrepresented and slandered. Our friend posting this has been mislead about LS as I stated all along. Be wise; Proverbs 14:15.
Now @Sudakar has the opportunity to accept or reject refutation and correction.
That and nowhere on page 93 did MacArthur make your above “quote.” See for yourselves:
https://books.google.com/books?id=NcLwhTDBICgC&pg=PP3&source=kp_read_button
Looks like your boy Thomas M. Cucuzza did a little embellishing and conflating of MacArthur's words, which is slander. His statement in his book “Secure Forever” is not what MacArthur said in his opening statement of chapter 6:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...ed in obedience and service to Christ&f=false
I just wanted everyone to see the embellished lie on MacArthur and be reminded not to believe anything and everything a person quotes. MacArthur has been both misrepresented and slandered. Our friend posting this has been mislead about LS as I stated all along. Be wise; Proverbs 14:15.
Now @Sudakar has the opportunity to accept or reject refutation and correction.
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