The Lord Jesus and His Holy Scriptures are One (The Scripture Personified) Pt. 1 & 2

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ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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Assertion without evidence is worth no more than opinion.

There is much evidence concerning this point. Here is a link to a sermon and also some facts:


https://kjvchurch.com/corruption-in-modern-bible-versions2/



VII. Some facts about the manuscripts, Vaticanus (B) and Sinaiticus (Aleph).


1. Vaticanus (B) A. Vaticanus was discovered in the Vatican in 1448.


B. “B agrees with the Textus Receptus only about 50% of the time. It differs from the Majority Greek in nearly 8000 places, amounting to about one change per verse. It omits several thousand key words from the Gospels, nearly 1000 complete sentences, and 500 clauses. It adds approximately 500 words, substitutes or modifies nearly 2000 and transposes word order in about 2000 places. It has nearly 600 readings that do not occur in any other manuscript. These affect almost 1000 words” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 551).



C. “B does not consider the following as part of the bible: Revelation, Phil., Titus, I and II Timothy, large parts of Samuel, Kings, Nehemiah, the Psalms, and Genesis. B omits crucial parts of Mark and Luke. In their place it adds apocryphal books such as Bel and the Dragon, Tobit, Judith, and the Epistle of Barnabas.” - Ibid, (p. 551).



2. Sinaiticus (Aleph) A. Sinaiticus was discovered in the mid-1800s.


B. “Because of its blatant omissions and alterations, it lapsed into a wastebasket in a monastery, where it was ‘discovered’ by Constantine von Tischendorf in the mid-eighteen hundreds.” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 553).



C. “There are about 9000 changes in this text from that of the Majority and Traditional Text, amounting to one difference in every verse. It omits some 4000 words from the Gospels, adds 1000, repositions 2000 and alters another 1000. It has approximately 1500 readings that appear in no other manuscript; this affects nearly 3000 words. The following omissions are just a few examples.



• The end of Mark and John.


• Thirty-nine words from Joh 19:20, 21; twenty words from Joh 20:5-6; nineteen words from Mark 1:32-34; fourteen words from Mark 15:47.


John 5:4, Mat 16:2-3, Rom 16:24, Mar 16:9-20, 1Jo 5:7, Act 8:37, Gen 23:19-24, 46, Num 5:27-7:20, 1Ch 9:27-19:27.


• Exodus, Joshua, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Judges.

• In Luke 8, for example, 19 out of 34 words are changed. In Matthew chapter one, 60 words are changed.

• It adds apocryphal books such as Bel and The Dragon, Tobit Judith, The Epistle of Barnabas, and The Shepherd of Hermas, among others” - Ibid (p. 552-553).



3. Vaticanus (B) vs. Sinaiticus (Aleph)


A. It would be one thing if these two manuscripts closely agreed with each other, but such is not the case.


B. “Not only do they disagree with the Majority of manuscripts, but they do not agree with each other. The 8000 changes in B and the 9000 changes in Aleph are not the same changes. When their changes are added together, they alter the Majority text in about 13000 places. This is two changes for every verse. Together they omit 4000 words, add 2000, transpose 3500, and modify 2000. They disagree with each other a dozen times on every page. Colwell says they disagree 70% of the time and in almost every verse of the gospels. Burgon says, “It is easier to find two consecutive verses in which these manuscripts differ than two in which they agree” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 554).



C. "Hoskier's very technical comparison of B with Aleph showed these two corrupt manuscripts to be in contradiction one with the other in over 3,000 places in the Gospels alone!" - D.A. Waite, Defending the King James Bible (p. 59).


4. What do the "scholars" have to say about these two manuscripts?



A. “Westcott and Hort’s Introduction to the New Testament in the Original Greek affirms: [R]eadings of Aleph and B should be accepted as the true readings…[They] stand far above all documents…[are] very pure…excellent…and enjoyed a singular immunity from corruption” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 546).


B. “Edwin Palmer, Executive Secretary of the NIV committee, writes that Aleph and B are more reliable and accurate.” - Ibid (p. 548)


C. “Ronald Youngblood, NIV translation committee member agrees, “[T]he readings found in…Vaticanus


and Sinaiticus [Aleph] of the forth century A.D. are to be preferred.” Other committee members, such as Kenneth L. Barker, have expressed agreement” - Ibid (p. 548).




VIII. Changes and omissions in the modern versions. This section will mainly focus on the NIV, but many of the changes apply to many of the new versions.


1. The KJV vs. the NIV (New International Version). The following is a list of changes in the NIV compared with the KJV.


• 5219 words, 16 complete verses omitted from the NIV


• “Christ” removed 25 times from NIV


• “Lord” omitted 352 times from NIV


“Jesus” is omitted many times, and added many times without Greek support


• “God” omitted 468 times from NIV


• “Godhead” totally removed from all new versions


• “Lucifer” is totally omitted from all new versions


• “devils” replaced by demons (divinities) in NIV 80 times


“Hell” is omitted 40 times in the NIV


• “Heaven” is deleted 160 times from the NIV


• “damned, damnable, damnation” is totally gone from new versions


• The “Blood” of Christ is deleted 41 times from the NIV


• “Salvation” is deleted 42 times from NIV


• The “Word of God” is deleted 8 times from NIV


• The “Word of the Lord” is deleted 25 times from the NIV


• The “Lord Jesus Christ” is deleted 24 times from the NIV


• “Jehovah” is totally gone in the NIV (ex, Psa 83:18)


• “Scribes” is totally deleted from NIV, (I wonder why?)


• “Fornication” is totally deleted from NIV


• “Lord” is down-graded to “Master”, and “Master” is down-graded to “Teacher” tons of times in the NIV


2. It has been said that the new versions are simply revisions of the KJV written in “modern English” without all the “archaic” words. Are words like Christ, Lord, Jesus, God, Godhead, Lucifer, devils, hell, heaven, damn, blood, salvation, and Jehovah “archaic”?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63

No, it Is absolute truth. The King James Holy Bible is living and powerful. The King James Bible is all powerful as a matter of fact. Where as the NIV and NASB and other modern versions are dead and powerless.


I'm not playing your silly game.

What silly game, Dino?? Why don’t you just come out and tell us what you actually believe regarding this issue and stop trying to shy away from the issue.




If you did not, then please tell me Dino, where can I find a copy of God’s 100% perfect, inspired, infallible Bible today???


Garbage. The word of God is progressive revelation, and was different in 2500 BC than it was in 1000 BC, 400 BC, or 100 AD. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Your position is completely untenable.


The word of God is progressive revelation to us ONLY IN TIME. However though, the word of God has no beginning and no end. It is Eternal. It has always existed with the Father, and the Son (the Word) and the Holy Ghost. The Eternal word of God came into time as a Seed, and THEN it grew in time and we received its progressive revelation IN TIME. But in eternity, the word of God hath been the same yesterday, today and forever. You have to remember Dino, that the Bible has Two Natures, just as Jesus Christ has Two Natures.



No, we will have to give account to God.

As well as His word, the holy Scripture. Remember God is ONE with His word. You cannot separate them, Dino.


We will not have to give account to His word the Holy Scripture, because it is not a Person. I certainly won't have to give account to the KJV; if I did, then everyone who lived prior to its completion would have to, and every person who doesn't even read English would have to as well, which together are more than adequate to prove the utter stupidity of your assertion.

Dino, we will have to stand before God and His word, the Holy Scripture and give an account unto them. Jesus Christ Himself said the following:


John 12:44-50 ¶ Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. {45} And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. {46} I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. {47} And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. {48} He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. {49} For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. {50} And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."


The word which Jesus speaks, the same shall judge us. And we cannot separate Jesus from His words, the Holy Scripture.


Blah blah blah. If you're going to take the time to write, write something worth reading.

I am writing something worth reading, Dino. And that is why you are reading it, and also are responding to it.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,641
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^ modern english, not middle english.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Well, I would agree that the Geneva Bible, Tyndale, are also inspited. But not the NIV, ASV, NLT, and all the other modern translations which you named, since the modern translations are not translated from the right Greek texts.

Wrong. You haven't read the Preface, or you haven't understood it.

Sure, it validates my position. Because I have been defending that a translation can be inspired all along.

Re-read my statement to which you made this response.

But you do not believe that any Bible today is the inerrant word of God. That is your position, correct??
How about you speak for yourself, and I'll speak for myself.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
There is much evidence concerning this point. Here is a link to a sermon and also some facts:


https://kjvchurch.com/corruption-in-modern-bible-versions2/



VII. Some facts about the manuscripts, Vaticanus (B) and Sinaiticus (Aleph).


1. Vaticanus (B) A. Vaticanus was discovered in the Vatican in 1448.


B. “B agrees with the Textus Receptus only about 50% of the time. It differs from the Majority Greek in nearly 8000 places, amounting to about one change per verse. It omits several thousand key words from the Gospels, nearly 1000 complete sentences, and 500 clauses. It adds approximately 500 words, substitutes or modifies nearly 2000 and transposes word order in about 2000 places. It has nearly 600 readings that do not occur in any other manuscript. These affect almost 1000 words” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 551).



C. “B does not consider the following as part of the bible: Revelation, Phil., Titus, I and II Timothy, large parts of Samuel, Kings, Nehemiah, the Psalms, and Genesis. B omits crucial parts of Mark and Luke. In their place it adds apocryphal books such as Bel and the Dragon, Tobit, Judith, and the Epistle of Barnabas.” - Ibid, (p. 551).



2. Sinaiticus (Aleph) A. Sinaiticus was discovered in the mid-1800s.


B. “Because of its blatant omissions and alterations, it lapsed into a wastebasket in a monastery, where it was ‘discovered’ by Constantine von Tischendorf in the mid-eighteen hundreds.” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 553).



C. “There are about 9000 changes in this text from that of the Majority and Traditional Text, amounting to one difference in every verse. It omits some 4000 words from the Gospels, adds 1000, repositions 2000 and alters another 1000. It has approximately 1500 readings that appear in no other manuscript; this affects nearly 3000 words. The following omissions are just a few examples.



• The end of Mark and John.


• Thirty-nine words from Joh 19:20, 21; twenty words from Joh 20:5-6; nineteen words from Mark 1:32-34; fourteen words from Mark 15:47.


John 5:4, Mat 16:2-3, Rom 16:24, Mar 16:9-20, 1Jo 5:7, Act 8:37, Gen 23:19-24, 46, Num 5:27-7:20, 1Ch 9:27-19:27.


• Exodus, Joshua, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and Judges.

• In Luke 8, for example, 19 out of 34 words are changed. In Matthew chapter one, 60 words are changed.

• It adds apocryphal books such as Bel and The Dragon, Tobit Judith, The Epistle of Barnabas, and The Shepherd of Hermas, among others” - Ibid (p. 552-553).



3. Vaticanus (B) vs. Sinaiticus (Aleph)


A. It would be one thing if these two manuscripts closely agreed with each other, but such is not the case.


B. “Not only do they disagree with the Majority of manuscripts, but they do not agree with each other. The 8000 changes in B and the 9000 changes in Aleph are not the same changes. When their changes are added together, they alter the Majority text in about 13000 places. This is two changes for every verse. Together they omit 4000 words, add 2000, transpose 3500, and modify 2000. They disagree with each other a dozen times on every page. Colwell says they disagree 70% of the time and in almost every verse of the gospels. Burgon says, “It is easier to find two consecutive verses in which these manuscripts differ than two in which they agree” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 554).



C. "Hoskier's very technical comparison of B with Aleph showed these two corrupt manuscripts to be in contradiction one with the other in over 3,000 places in the Gospels alone!" - D.A. Waite, Defending the King James Bible (p. 59).


4. What do the "scholars" have to say about these two manuscripts?



A. “Westcott and Hort’s Introduction to the New Testament in the Original Greek affirms: [R]eadings of Aleph and B should be accepted as the true readings…[They] stand far above all documents…[are] very pure…excellent…and enjoyed a singular immunity from corruption” - G.A. Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, (p. 546).


B. “Edwin Palmer, Executive Secretary of the NIV committee, writes that Aleph and B are more reliable and accurate.” - Ibid (p. 548)


C. “Ronald Youngblood, NIV translation committee member agrees, “[T]he readings found in…Vaticanus


and Sinaiticus [Aleph] of the forth century A.D. are to be preferred.” Other committee members, such as Kenneth L. Barker, have expressed agreement” - Ibid (p. 548).




VIII. Changes and omissions in the modern versions. This section will mainly focus on the NIV, but many of the changes apply to many of the new versions.


1. The KJV vs. the NIV (New International Version). The following is a list of changes in the NIV compared with the KJV.


• 5219 words, 16 complete verses omitted from the NIV


• “Christ” removed 25 times from NIV


• “Lord” omitted 352 times from NIV


“Jesus” is omitted many times, and added many times without Greek support


• “God” omitted 468 times from NIV


• “Godhead” totally removed from all new versions


• “Lucifer” is totally omitted from all new versions


• “devils” replaced by demons (divinities) in NIV 80 times


“Hell” is omitted 40 times in the NIV


• “Heaven” is deleted 160 times from the NIV


• “damned, damnable, damnation” is totally gone from new versions


• The “Blood” of Christ is deleted 41 times from the NIV


• “Salvation” is deleted 42 times from NIV


• The “Word of God” is deleted 8 times from NIV


• The “Word of the Lord” is deleted 25 times from the NIV


• The “Lord Jesus Christ” is deleted 24 times from the NIV


• “Jehovah” is totally gone in the NIV (ex, Psa 83:18)


• “Scribes” is totally deleted from NIV, (I wonder why?)


• “Fornication” is totally deleted from NIV


• “Lord” is down-graded to “Master”, and “Master” is down-graded to “Teacher” tons of times in the NIV


2. It has been said that the new versions are simply revisions of the KJV written in “modern English” without all the “archaic” words. Are words like Christ, Lord, Jesus, God, Godhead, Lucifer, devils, hell, heaven, damn, blood, salvation, and Jehovah “archaic”?
Too much stupidity; not worth further response.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
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No, it Is absolute truth. The King James Holy Bible is living and powerful. The King James Bible is all powerful as a matter of fact. Where as the NIV and NASB and other modern versions are dead and powerless.

Worthless opinions.

The word of God is progressive revelation to us ONLY IN TIME. However though, the word of God has no beginning and no end. It is Eternal. It has always existed with the Father, and the Son (the Word) and the Holy Ghost. The Eternal word of God came into time as a Seed, and THEN it grew in time and we received its progressive revelation IN TIME. But in eternity, the word of God hath been the same yesterday, today and forever. You have to remember Dino, that the Bible has Two Natures, just as Jesus Christ has Two Natures.
Yawn. Your fantasy story needs a better plot.

As well as His word, the holy Scripture. Remember God is ONE with His word. You cannot separate them, Dino. ...
The word which Jesus speaks, the same shall judge us. And we cannot separate Jesus from His words, the Holy Scripture.
His words weren't born in a manger, didn't die on the cross, weren't resurrected on the third day, and didn't ascend into heaven. Your line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
How about you speak for yourself, and I'll speak for myself.

I believe that the Bible I hold in my hands is infallible and inerrant.

Can you also make that statement, Dino???
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
Worthless opinions.

No, it is valuable truth.


Yawn. Your fantasy story needs a better plot.

It is sad how you reject the truth about the word of God.


His words weren't born in a manger, didn't die on the cross, weren't resurrected on the third day, and didn't ascend into heaven. Your line of reasoning is utterly ridiculous.

Jesus and His word are always together. They are indivisible. Both came from eternity into time. Christ through Conception and His word through Inspiration. And yes, the Holy Scripture also was present on the cross along with Jesus our blessed Lord. The word of God was above Jesus' head on the cross of Calvary, both were resurrected and both are now at the Father's right side. Jesus (the Word of God) is set down at the Father's right hand and the King James Bible (the word of God) is in the Father's right hand.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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Where in Scripture does it state that I need to do so?
2 Timothy 3:16?

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
114
63
Where in Scripture does it state that I need to do so?
If you do not believe in a perfect and inerrant Bible, then you do not believe that God kept and preserved His pure words.

You either believe that He did, or you don't believe it, Dino.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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If you do not believe in a perfect and inerrant Bible, then you do not believe that God kept and preserved His pure words.

You either believe that He did, or you don't believe it, Dino.
You're welcome to your fallacious dichotomies. I'm not interested in your silly game.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
2 Timothy 3:16?

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Indeed it is, but that doesn't say what the OP might want it to say. :)