The Lord Judges His people first

[ATG]

Eze 9:6
Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

2 Peter{4:17}
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Heb 10:29
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Beginning with Adam, God always judges His people, to whom He gives His commandment and law. Adan was the first man to receive the Lord's commandment, and the first man by trasngression to be judged by His commandment.

Since receiving the law at Sinai, the people of the Lord knew they are therefore to be judged by it among all the earth. The law of the Lord was not given to the heathen to be judged by transgression, but to His own people first.

How can anyone knowing His commandment and law, believe He will not judge us accordingly? A commandment that has no power to condemn, has no power to give life. A law that does not judge transgression, is no law at all. So also the gospel of Jesus Christ has power to save and to condemn:

2 Peter{4:17}
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2Th 1:6
When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

The Lord coming again will judged His people first at His seat, and then He will also judge the world as promised at is coming:

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Psa 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.

Rather than the Lord only judging the unbelievers by His commandment and law, but not His own people by our works, the Lord Himself will first judge them that name His name, and only then them that have not believed in His name.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[ATG]

Heb{9:27}
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The Scripture says unto men, and not unto unbelievers only. How then can anyone believe they will escape the judgment of all men at the end of this life? By faith alone a man does not cease to be a man that dies, nor a man judged by works.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Once again, the Scripture speaks to men, that do unrighteousness, and not to unbelievers only.

1Th 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Scriptures promises the righteous are not appointed to wrath. There is no promise that any man is not appointed to judgment.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

Mat 24:48
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

We see at the Lord's coming again, that He will judge His people first. And them judged with evil works, will be appointed with the hypocrites unto wrath, not with the righteous unto salvation.

Rom 3:5
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

God is not unrighteous to take vengeance upon any man that transgresses His commandment, and is disobedient to His gospel.

For if God will not judge His own people as promised, how then can He righteously judge the world that knew Him not? God is not an unjust judge that only judges the strangers, while not judging His own people that do the same.

Tit 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient,

Rather than escaping the judgment of God, it's them that name His name while disobeying Him, that are more abominable than the ignorant.

God judges all men at death, and will judge His people on earth first at His coming to judge the world in righteousness and truth.

 

[Reddogs]

Well, there is a Investigative Judgment as distinct from the Final Judgment of the Second Death, which scripture shows begins before the Second Coming as the saints cannot simply go to heaven without a determination of their standing. Man is not immortal of self and doesnt go to heaven at death, he goes to the grave and turns to dust, and there is not any kind of judgment immediately after death. We see that it begins with the believers as the Bible speaks of an Investigative Judgment for the house of God, which is Christians.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?

We also see another text on where the Bible speaks about a Judgment Day......

Revelation 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

We see the angel proclaim that the 'everlasting gospel' message contains, the judgment, and we see what Christ says..

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

And we find much more..

1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Now as Jesus will bring His reward with Him at His coming, the judgment of the church or saints needs only to take place shortly prior to the Second Coming. Now if you look the Investigative Judgment comes and we the saints will be judged before the Second Coming and then after the wicked, so its everyone. Lets take a look at scripture:

Daniel 7.9-10
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. (22) the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given in favor of the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Matthew 12.36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


Romans 14.10-12
We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

2 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether it be good or bad.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God, so all believers must repent and be converted, not just say they are...

Acts 3.18-19
But those things, which God foretold by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he has so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: Because he has appointed a day, So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom he has ordained; He has given assurance of this to all men, by raising him from the dead.

Romans 2:15-16
. . .Which show the work of the law written in their hearts,...In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The Bible clearly indicts that all will appear before the judgment throne of God, those who are judged worthy by the blood of the lamb, have His robe of righteousness, and will be taken to the heavenly kingdom at the Second Coming. The others will receive the judgment of condemnation, and receive their punishment in the lake of fire at the Second Death.

 

[Aussie52]

I think you will find Scripture says that the Christion will be judged by their works, not because of some fictious 'robe of righteousness'.

 

[timf]

How can anyone knowing His commandment and law, believe He will not judge us accordingly?

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Those following the kingdom gospel for Israel are required to persevere in faith.

Those trusting in the gospel of grace for the gentiles already have their salvation and eternal life.

Those of Israel who remain faithful are written in the book of life. Those in the body of Christ are only judged for rewards. Salvation has already been assured for those saved by grace.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

The two gospel view solves a lot of problems.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

 

[Aussie52]

The two-gospel view creates a lot of problems.

 

[dkontner]

The two-gospel view creates a lot of problems.

Especially since there is only one gospel.

 

[ATG]

Well, there is a Investigative Judgment as distinct from the Final Judgment of the Second Death,

True. It's called investigating works the same as at the GWT. The only distinction is that only those naming at the Lord's return, are first judged by their works.

At the GWT all the wicked dead of history since Cain are finally judged by their works.

which scripture shows begins before the Second Coming as the saints cannot simply go to heaven without a determination of their standing.

While it's true that the souls of dead bodies depart to heaven or hell, everyone will still be personally judged by their earthly works at the resurrection of the dead:

Dan 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Jhn 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Man is not immortal of self

All souls of men and women are created immortal in the image of God.

Unlike the immortal angels, who are also called sons of God, men are made a little lower with bodies of natural flesh and blood. Which are the temporary earthen vessels in this life.

Psa 8:3
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

2Co 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

2Co 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The body only dies when the spirit of man departs the body.

and doesnt go to heaven at death, he goes to the grave and turns to dust, and there is not any kind of judgment immediately after death.

Heb{9:27}
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

While the Scripture does not say judgment is 'immediately' after death, there is no Scripture for any temporary delay of judgment, after the spirit of man departs the mortal body. No purgatory.

The souls of the dead in Christ are immediately present with the Lord, and the souls of the wicked are immediately chained in hell.

We see that it begins with the believers as the Bible speaks of an Investigative Judgment for the house of God, which is Christians.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?

Correct. Rather than believers naming Christ being exempted from judgment of our works, the people of God have always been judged by our works first, which is before them that are without law of Christ.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: even as many as have sinned in the law are judged by the law;

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.

1 Peter 1:17
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Now as Jesus will bring His reward with Him at His coming, the judgment of the church or saints needs only to take place shortly prior to the Second Coming.

Jesus judges His people at His coming from His judgment seat:

Mat 13:29
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The wheat will all resurrect at once, and be gathered by His angels to meet Him in the air. The tares will all be cast out of His presence at once, to suffer wrath with the hypocrites of the earth.

Even as with judgment of the soul at bodily death, there is no need for temporal time delay before judgment of works; So also there is no need to time delay between the Lord's coming again, and harvesting all the lively branches, while casting off all the deadwood.

Jhn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

All Jesus' prophecies speak of instant judgment and reward for good or bad. There's no need to imagine a temporal line of confessing Christians waiting one by one for his turn of judgment:

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Judging each all at once is not too hard for the Lord, even in a moment and twinkling of an eye.

The Bible clearly indicts that all will appear before the judgment throne of God, those who are judged worthy by the blood of the lamb, have His robe of righteousness, and will be taken to the heavenly kingdom at the Second Coming. The others will receive the judgment of condemnation, and receive their punishment in the lake of fire at the Second Death.

Luk 22:18
For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

Mat 6:10
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Jesus brings to earth His heavenly kingdom with His angels at His second coming.

If you're trying to compress Scripture into only one judgment of works, then that would be for dismissing Jesus' Millennium on earth, when His resurrected saints will reign over all cities of the earth.

Luk 19:16
Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

 

[ATG]

I think you will find Scripture says that the Christion will be judged by their works, not because of some fictious 'robe of righteousness'.

Amen again brother. I like how quickly you nail faith-alone righteousness and justification to the coffin of deadwood.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

John{15:6}
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[ATG]

How can anyone knowing His commandment and law, believe He will not judge us accordingly?

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Exactly. No one escapes God's judgment of works, that is for everyone doing works on earth.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Those hearing and reading the word of Christ, and naming His name of faith, are first and foremost judged by His word of law and commandments accordingly. Those not hearing nor naming Christ are still judged by evil deeds without Christ.

No one escapes the Lord's righteous judgment of our works, not by ignorance of the law, nor by faith-alone without obeying the word:

James{1:22}
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

Those following the kingdom gospel for Israel are required to persevere in faith.

Those trusting in the gospel of grace for the gentiles already have their salvation and eternal life.

There is only one kingdom of the resurrected God of Israel.

No man nor race nor nation on earth has any other hope of life, than in Christ Jesus.

Col 1:12
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

2 pet 1:4
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;...and to brotherly kindness charity.

Wherefore, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

And in His kingdom body on earth, there is no difference between men and women and race and nation...

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Those in the body of Christ are only judged for rewards. Salvation has already been assured for those saved by grace.

The quoted Scriptures show the believers' judgment of works for the good or the evil.

Faith-alone self-justification does not last beyond the grave.

Everyone naming Christ will be judged by our works at His judgment seat, when He returns to purge His good wheat from the bad tares.

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

This is ministerial works with profit to the churches, or in vain without edification. They are not works of transgression against Christ's commandments, nor ministerial evil that defiles the body of Christ:

1 Cor{3:16}
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Rev 2:14
Thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

The two gospel view solves a lot of problems.

A two gospel view rejects the gospel of Jesus Christ:

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

This must be another gospel preached neither to Jew nor Greek.

Preaching another gospel than the one gospel of Jesus Christ, certainly does solve any problem of knowing false teaching:

Act 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Gal 2:8
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the uncircumcision)

The same gospel of Jesus Christ is preached to the circumcision and to the uncircumcision, first by Peter to the circumcision, and then by Paul toward the uncircumcision.

Rom 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

2Jo 1:9
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There is one gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ, by which all the world is judged, beginning with the works of those naming Christ at His judgment seat, whether Jew or Greek.

 

[Reddogs]

I think you will find Scripture says that the Christion will be judged by their works, not because of some fictious 'robe of righteousness'.

When a person receives a pardon, what is on his record, the pardon. Same with Christians, Christ will say he is covered by my sacrifice and we come into the kingdom with His 'robe of righteousness'.

Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[ATG]

When a person receives a pardon, what is on his record, the pardon.

No past transgressions are on the record:

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Same with Christians, Christ will say he is covered by my sacrifice

The pardon does not continue to cover more transgressions.

Job 10:14I
If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.

Nah 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, but will not at all acquit the wicked:

Jer 5:7
How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery,

Jesus' blood washes away sins, not just covers them up like that of bulls and goats.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

OSAS grace and salvation that covers up continued transgressions, is not God's grace that saves from transgressing.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The OSAS deliverance is from condemn continued transgressing. Jesus Christ delivers from the transgressing, that God condemns on any man doing such things:

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

OSAS hypocrisy is all about covering up the dirt, which only lasts until the grave.

and we come into the kingdom with His 'robe of righteousness'.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

No man doing unrighteousness enters into the Lord's righteous kingdom robed in His righteousness.

1 Cor 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,..Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The Lord will judge His people first by our works, and divide between the righteous wheat and the unrighteous tares.

 

[Blade]

It is amazing what we can say using some scriptures out of context.. then it goes back and forth. Do we even care? Anyway 1st Peter 4 17. Would seem Peter was referring to Exekiel 9:6 where the lord is calling for judgment against the evildoers in Jerusalem and said "and begin at my sanctuary". Maybe Peter was thinking of the believers firry trials as the beginning of the judgment.. if begin at Gods house what what shall be the end of those who reject the gospel

I'm sitting here thinking.. why? Why do some hear yet still will not listen. Take "OSAS grace and salvation that covers up continued transgressions, is not God's grace that saves from transgressing." :OSAS hypocrisy is all about covering up the dirt, which only lasts until the grave."

There’s this church known for what some call ..what is it.. “super duper grace” or something like that—often associated with the doctrine of OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved). Whenever this person or group is discussed, you never hear about the times they emphasize that “we cannot freely sin, we must repent,” and so on.. I watched them say it.. . Instead, OSAS is often portrayed as a license to sin without care or repentance, simply because they believe in OSAS. Yet, no one is ever actually quoted saying that or anything similar. It’s reminiscent of the way the Pre-Tribulation rapture theory is often misunderstood as having started in 1830, which is false. Anyone can research and find that as early as the 1600s, and even around 300-400 AD, writings spoke about Christ coming for His Church before the great tribulation. Many have referenced this (though oddly not here), and it was preached about, yet the post-tribulation view still holds strong for some knowing what was written talked about 300-400ad and before. I personally appreciate that they kindly lovingly disagree. Praise GOD

There’s another group that gets mocked—not just by the world but also by some “Christians.” We all love Jesus and each other, right? Since I was 15 (now 65), this group has clearly explained why they believe what they do and what they reject, backing up their beliefs with the Word of God, just like many here in this thread do. It’s strange—good for you, but not for them huh. Even in 2026, this group still faces ridicule for beliefs they don’t hold, despite having stated their position clearly, even on video and written about. Yet some “Christians” just don’t care and we talk about "Judgement" or fear of GOD .. or love one another .. obey Jesus and the commandments. With out love.. would seem this is in vain.

So "How can anyone knowing His commandment and law, believe He will not judge us accordingly?" because Christ came already died for the sin of the world. Did not Christ say we the believers who trust in cling to Him will not be judged? John 3:16-18. Then there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. Cor... all the stuff they did were stuck on .. having all those problems just like you and me.. what did Paul or the sweet sweet holy Spirit say about them (all) in the end would happen? Granted some say thats about OSAS others disagree. Yeah one should point that out but some done.

For me any time GODS Words not ours.. is used to bring fear cause fear doubt ...its not God talking. Look what He said to the Church in Rev 3... it is odd what some will read in to that huh. Well are we not the light do we not speak word of life? Then for all we know that Church heard His love for them and repented. Just read 11400 something like that just the other day.. kids came to Christ in one day.. how awesome wonderful is that. The biggest thread .. should be praises and all the great things He is doing in our lifes yet its not.. nor is the one for believers asking for prayers..

 

[ATG]

The two-gospel view creates a lot of problems.

Such as dividing the body of Christ into Jews and non-Jews.

Judaizing Christ.

 

[ATG]

It is amazing what we can say using some scriptures out of context.. then it goes back and forth.

True. They begin with a false point of doctrine from one verse out of context, and then argue every other Scripture out of context from that false point.

It's how the perfect unity of Scripture ensnares false teachers in an every widening net, and ever deepening ditch.

Job 5:13
He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.

Anyway 1st Peter 4 17. Would seem Peter was referring to Exekiel 9:6 where the lord is calling for judgment against the evildoers in Jerusalem and said "and begin at my sanctuary".

True. God has always held His people accountable to His commandments first, before judging the heathen that knew not the Lord nor His law.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

The first people judged by God's commandment, were the first people to receive His commandment, Adam and Eve.

Maybe Peter was thinking of the believers firry trials as the beginning of the judgment..

The blessing of fiery trials is only for them that endure and obey, not for them that lust and disobey:

1Pe 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Jas 1:3
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

As in the OT, Peter in the NT also warns God's people against the fiery judgment of disobeying God by temptations.

Heb 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

It's the promised judgment of God's people first, according to our works, whether good or evil.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Not all who stand at Christ's judgment seat as Lord, will enter into His everlasting kingdom and resurrection unto life:

Mat 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It's not ministerial works that are judged at His seat, but works of iniquity.

The ministerial rewards of cities to rule during His Millennial kingdom, are given on earth after receiving crown of life and righteousness at His judgment seat.

Mat 24:45
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/48/s_953048

Mat 24:48
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The judgment seat of Christ is the Lord's separation of the unrighteous tares doing evil, from among the righteous wheat doing good:

Mat 13:29
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 

[ATG]

There’s this church known for what some call ..what is it.. “super duper grace” or something like that—often associated with the doctrine of OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved). Whenever this person or group is discussed, you never hear about the times they emphasize that “we cannot freely sin, we must repent,” and so on..

They are only speaking of lifestyle on earth, not of justification with Jesus Christ in heaven. No person on earth can live sinfully without corrupt consequences in this life.

It's the same warning of any religion, and self-help programs: Natural reaping and sowing of the body and life, but not of eternal salvation with God.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

While OSAS Christians will responsibly preach natural reaping and sowing in this life, they reject the gospel warning of eternal reaping from sinful sowing.

Unbelievers on earth know we all naturally reap what we naturally sow, but neither they nor OSAS Christians believe we all eternally reap, if we sinfully sow today.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether good or evil.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.

Instead, OSAS is often portrayed as a license to sin without care or repentance, simply because they believe in OSAS.

Once again, they give no license to sin pertaining to consequences in this life. Not even the Satanists preach free evil-doing without harm to the body and life on earth. And pagans are very zealous about responsible living for health and welfare.

But Satanists, pagans, and OSAS Christians reject any eternal consequences of present works. Though OSAS Christians only reject it for themselves by their faith-alone in Christ.

1 Tim{4:8}
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

Godly living in Christ Jesus is not only for natural and spiritual blessings in this life, but also for eternal blessing and life in resurrection from the dead.

Both Jews and Christians trusting in the law and faith alone, deny they are justified or condemned by their works in the judgment of God:

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Rom 2:17
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?... Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

[ATG]

We all love Jesus and each other, right?

Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jo 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

All believers keeping His commandments love Jesus and His brethren, right?

What about all the believers that keep not His commandments? Who do they love?

And all the unbelievers not naming His name, that keep not His commandments. Who do they love?

Yet some “Christians” just don’t care and we talk about "Judgement" or fear of GOD .. or love one another .. obey Jesus and the commandments. Without love.. would seem this is in vain.

Jer 2:19
Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

Mal 1:6
A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Such 'loving Christians' not only reject Jesus' words of judgment, fear, and obedience. But also accuse Him of doing so without love. Or, is it just those that preach His words of judgment, fear, and obedience, that are without love...

Many OSAS Christians seek fault in justification by works and obeying Jesus with His commandments, do so with their own assumption, that is must be without faith and love.

They personally accuse that such words cannot be with faith and love, because it's not their own OSAS faith and love alone...

They never acknowledge the Scriptures' justification by works with faith, and loving Christ by obeying Him and keeping His commandments:

Luk 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[ATG]

So "How can anyone knowing His commandment and law, believe He will not judge us accordingly?" because Christ came already died for the sin of the world.

So, because Jesus died on a cross for our sins, no man is now judged by His law and commandments? Or, is it just those believing He died for sins, and know His commandments, that are not judged by His law?

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Them that know His commandments and law, are the first transgressors judged by them. Especially them that know He came to die because of our sins against Him.

Jesus had to come and die for our sins to be repented of, not for any man to be justified as without commandments and law.

Having faith in Jesus Christ's necessary sacrifice for sins alone, justifies no man. Only by repentance and faith in His resurrection is a man justified:

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation...