The meaning of "mature"

[justbyfaith]

Consider the following.

Heb 10:1, For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Now, considering that the word "perfect" actually means "mature" we need to understand that if anyone is mature, they will have no more conscience of sins.

Therefore, are they simply oblivious to what is in all reality there in their lives?

Consider.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we are walking in the light, will not any sin that is present in our lives be exposed to the light and brought out into the open?

Even as it is written,

Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Therefore, if I am walking in the light, and am not sanctified in the sense of being set free from sin, my sin will be exposed; and I will continue to have a conscience of sins.

If I am mature, I do not any longer have any conscience of sins. Which indicates that perfect, in Hebrews 10:1 (and everywhere else in scripture) does indeed mean "perfect".

Consider also the following.

Col 1:21, And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

"holy", "unblameable", "unreproveable".

"faultless"

Are you going to come up with alternate meanings for these words also? Do these words also not mean "perfect"?

I suppose that we can cross off holy...for that has been re-defined as "set apart" (however in this re-definition, the word "holy" has been stripped of its meaning, impaho).

One might be able to cross off "unblameable" as referring to outward righteousness and holiness (except that God, in Hebrews 4:13, tells us that everything is open and naked to His sight; and this also refers to the inward parts of a man, which are either righteous or unrighteous (Matthew 23:25-28).

I don't think that anyone can cross off "unreprovaeable" or "faultless" however.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now that this has been approved, I am bumping it up.

 

[justbyfaith]

bump

 

[Absolutely]

No doubt it can mean more than one thing.

But remember,i showed you one example in another thread where it was used as " mature"

" the owner of the vinyard was patiently waiting for his grapes to mature. Upon tasting them he said "these are perfect."

 

[justbyfaith]

No doubt it can mean more than one thing.

But remember,i showed you one example in another thread where it was used as " mature"

" the owner of the vinyard was patiently waiting for his grapes to mature. Upon tasting them he said "these are perfect."

Even in that example, "mature", means "perfect".

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Consider the following.

Heb 10:1, For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2, For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Now, considering that the word "perfect" actually means "mature" we need to understand that if anyone is mature, they will have no more conscience of sins.

Therefore, are they simply oblivious to what is in all reality there in their lives?

Consider.

1Jo 1:7, But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we are walking in the light, will not any sin that is present in our lives be exposed to the light and brought out into the open?

Even as it is written,

Jhn 3:20, For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jhn 3:21, But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Therefore, if I am walking in the light, and am not sanctified in the sense of being set free from sin, my sin will be exposed; and I will continue to have a conscience of sins.

If I am mature, I do not any longer have any conscience of sins. Which indicates that perfect, in Hebrews 10:1 (and everywhere else in scripture) does indeed mean "perfect".

Consider also the following.

Col 1:21, And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22, In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

"holy", "unblameable", "unreproveable".

"faultless"

Are you going to come up with alternate meanings for these words also? Do these words also not mean "perfect"?

I suppose that we can cross off holy...for that has been re-defined as "set apart" (however in this re-definition, the word "holy" has been stripped of its meaning, impaho).

One might be able to cross off "unblameable" as referring to outward righteousness and holiness (except that God, in Hebrews 4:13, tells us that everything is open and naked to His sight; and this also refers to the inward parts of a man, which are either righteous or unrighteous (Matthew 23:25-28).

I don't think that anyone can cross off "unreprovaeable" or "faultless" however.

maturity I would look here and similar places

“And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.

For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself;

first the blade,

then the ear,

after that the full corn in the ear.

But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:26-29‬ ‭

it’s a process we are born as Christians but as we’re born in life we come to a process of growing and maturing like plants in a garden is how the Bible speaks of it .

first you have to have good seed and receptive soil and then if the seed is accepted thier will by a seedling sprouting up , with light and water from heaven the seed will grow into a sprout , the sprout into a juvenile plant forming vegetation and having a strengthening stock

later with perseverance you begin to form buds for flowers to bloom from fruits of the plant begin to come forth but they come in tbier season not suddenly at once like children we come and then we grow into the kingdom we find

 

[justbyfaith]

It might even be considered to be a perfect plant before it is fully-grown.

And, if it is fully-grown, it may not be considered to be a perfect plant.

However, there is a sense in which "mature" means "perfect"...

as when the process of sanctification has been completed, and the person has been matured in the faith, they are indeed perfect;

So that they are born of God even according to the literal interpretation of 1 John 3:9.

 

[Roar]

Someone who looks to Jesus first and not to others' opinions keeping Word Centered so as not to be led astray by every new fad or word from others.

Maturity in Christ (Colossians 1:28i-29)
Colossians 1:28-29
King James Version
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.


1. Mature Christians receive the truths of the gospel as it was passed down to them.
2. Mature Christians stop pointing out everyone else's sins, and start confessing their own
3. Mature Christians watch their words, and know when NOT to speak.
4. Mature Christians grow less dependent on themselves, and increasingly dependent on Christ.
5. Mature Christians make every effort to build on their faith.

7 Characteristics of a Mature Christian
The Bible gives us many marks of a growing believer, like perseverance and spiritual fruit, but the Bible specifically mentions the following 7 characteristics in conjunction with the Greek word teleios:

1. Recognizes the difference between right and wrong then does what is right (Hebrews 5:14)
2. Not easily swayed by false teaching (Ephesians 4:13-16) – So grounded in the truth of God’s Word, she quickly recognizes falsehood.
3. Rooted in love (Ephesians 4:13-16) – Our words and actions flow from love for our fellow believers.
4. Serves the church (Ephesians 4:13-16) – A Christian cannot grow to her full potential apart from a vital connection to a local church. She must find her place of mutual service and encouragement.
5. Lives with an eternal perspective (Philippians 3:13-15) – The reality of the spiritual and eternal drives her life. She purposefully strives to continual spiritual growth because she knows this life is temporary.
6. Controls her tongue (James 3:2) – If a Christian has good control of her speech, you know she is on a path to maturity!
7. Reflects God’s character to the world (Matthew 5:48) – God wants us to grow in spiritual maturity in order to reflect the character of Jesus to a watching world.

 

[justbyfaith]

Mature Christians are defined by the 1 John 3:9 (kjv) definition of "born of God".

 

[Absolutely]

Mature Christians are defined by the 1 John 3:9 (kjv) definition of "born of God".

There are several states or stages of christian growth


Starts off as newborn babes.

Progresses through several more stages to mature or as you like to put it perfect.
Will await some correction from you.

 

[Absolutely]

It might even be considered to be a perfect plant before it is fully-grown.

And, if it is fully-grown, it may not be considered to be a perfect plant.

However, there is a sense in which "mature" means "perfect"...

as when the process of sanctification has been completed, and the person has been matured in the faith, they are indeed perfect;

So that they are born of God even according to the literal interpretation of 1 John 3:9.

In your mind, tell me what a "perfect" believer is in comparison with the perfect God they follow/serve.

Sinless?
Never a mistake?
Never says the wrong thing to anyone?
Never gets mad?
Never afraid?
Never looks on a woman to lust?
Never commits the sin of ignorance?
Never commits the list of sins of omission?
Never worries?
Never a cross word?
Never overeats?
Never a tiny lie? ( keeping in mind that omission =a lie)

...and much more.

Define perfect.
The perfect believer against my list.

 

[Absolutely]

It might even be considered to be a perfect plant before it is fully-grown.

And, if it is fully-grown, it may not be considered to be a perfect plant.

However, there is a sense in which "mature" means "perfect"...

as when the process of sanctification has been completed, and the person has been matured in the faith, they are indeed perfect;

So that they are born of God even according to the literal interpretation of 1 John 3:9.

""""However, there is a sense in which "mature" means "perfect"."""


Whooda ever thought there was such a novel concept????

Keep in mind......you heard it here first

Lol

 

[Absolutely]

Mature Christians are defined by the 1 John 3:9 (kjv) definition of "born of God".

Yes we must embrace every word.

So please reconcile that verse with " if any man says he is without sin he is a liar..."
And how believers in James and the 7 churches were given an avenue back to God when sin was revealed???

According to your strict interpretation in 1 john...no such thing is possible. A believer that commits a sin is not born of God?

 

[Absolutely]

In your mind, tell me what a "perfect" believer is in comparison with the perfect God they follow/serve.

Sinless?
Never a mistake?
Never says the wrong thing to anyone?
Never gets mad?
Never afraid?
Never looks on a woman to lust?
Never commits the sin of ignorance?
Never commits the list of sins of omission?
Never worries?
Never a cross word?
Never overeats?
Never a tiny lie? ( keeping in mind that omission =a lie)

...and much more.

Define perfect.
The perfect believer against my list.

Indeed " perfect",

.....Can only mean " mature"

 

[justbyfaith]

In your mind, tell me what a "perfect" believer is in comparison with the perfect God they follow/serve.

Sinless?
Never a mistake?
Never says the wrong thing to anyone?
Never gets mad?
Never afraid?
Never looks on a woman to lust?
Never commits the sin of ignorance?
Never commits the list of sins of omission?
Never worries?
Never a cross word?
Never overeats?
Never a tiny lie? ( keeping in mind that omission =a lie)

...and much more.

Define perfect.
The perfect believer against my list.

God is without sin; while indwelling sin in us is merely rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Yes we must embrace every word.

So please reconcile that verse with " if any man says he is without sin he is a liar..."
And how believers in James and the 7 churches were given an avenue back to God when sin was revealed???

According to your strict interpretation in 1 john...no such thing is possible. A believer that commits a sin is not born of God?

The believer is not without the element of indwelling sin...however, in the sanctified believer, the element of sin is rendered dead so that he is not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (NLT)...he doesn't have to commit sin in the practical sense...while it is still true that he is indwelt by the element of sin; though it is rendered dead if he is sanctified.

1 John 1:8 is also qualified by Job 9:21 and 1 Corinthians 4:3-4.

And 1 John 3:9 may in fact be hyperbole...exaggeration to make a point....so that it is not saying that if a believer sins one time, he isn't born again.

However, exaggeration to make what point?

That if anyone is born again, their life is going to change. They have repented (made a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan, towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God) so they are walking in a new direction.

Even as it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

 

[justbyfaith]

Indeed " perfect",

.....Can only mean " mature"

And "mature" can only mean "perfect" (see the OP).

 

[Absolutely]

In your mind, tell me what a "perfect" believer is in comparison with the perfect God they follow/serve.

Sinless?
Never a mistake?
Never says the wrong thing to anyone?
Never gets mad?
Never afraid?
Never looks on a woman to lust?
Never commits the sin of ignorance?
Never commits the list of sins of omission?
Never worries?
Never a cross word?
Never overeats?
Never a tiny lie? ( keeping in mind that omission =a lie)

...and much more.

Define perfect.
The perfect believer against my list.

Indeed " perfect"

Can only mean " mature"

And "mature" can only mean "perfect" (see the OP).

so now they have become interchangeable?

 

[Absolutely]

God is without sin; while indwelling sin in us is merely rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).



The believer is not without the element of indwelling sin...however, in the sanctified believer, the element of sin is rendered dead so that he is not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (NLT)...he doesn't have to commit sin in the practical sense...while it is still true that he is indwelt by the element of sin; though it is rendered dead if he is sanctified.

1 John 1:8 is also qualified by Job 9:21 and 1 Corinthians 4:3-4.

And 1 John 3:9 may in fact be hyperbole...exaggeration to make a point....so that it is not saying that if a believer sins one time, he isn't born again.

However, exaggeration to make what point?

That if anyone is born again, their life is going to change. They have repented (made a 180-degree turn away from sin, death, hell, and satan, towards righteousness, life, heaven, and God) so they are walking in a new direction.

Even as it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

ok

That sounds plausable....maybe

I need to re read it

 

[justbyfaith]

Indeed " perfect"

Can only mean " mature"

so now they have become interchangeable?

If one means the other, then the other means the one.

 

[justbyfaith]

ok

That sounds plausable....maybe

I need to re read it

Tell me what you think once you have come to understand it.