If ya think for one second that them disciples thought like the bugged out preterists today, you are dreaming!
The Meaning Of The Parable Of Tares
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If ya think for one second that them disciples thought like the bugged out preterists today, you are dreaming!
Preterism is the only way to escape the Great Fib-ulation foisted on people since Darby...
@plainsnowflake
Call me a snowflake to my face...lol, I'd knock some sense into you
Not dreaming, it's fact. That is exactly what they believed.
Sometime between 66-68 AD Nero banished John to Patmos, "for the Word of God and His testimony of Jesus." Nero, who sometimes wore the skin of a beast (and was often called 'a beast') while performing despicable acts of torture, had been murdering Christians for the past three years. Now in 66 AD, he dispatched his lethal army to squelch a violent rebellion in John’s homeland. John sees these developments as “the tribulation” of which his Lord had spoken thirty-six years earlier. Not just John but all Jewish Christians of the day believed the promised tribulation (punishment of apostate Israel), was about to begin. Even Josephus documented the thoughts of many of that day.
Contrary to what Nero thinks, God has sent John to Patmos. The Almighty intends to give a series of visions that will sustain him and other Christians during the tribulation. Future generations of Christ’s followers will know these visions as the book of Revelation. Jesus said this tribulation would come in his generation (Mat 24:21, 34). That generation is almost at an end. The visions are, therefore, about “things which must shortly come to pass” Rev 1:1).
Jesus also associated this tribulation with three important developments: the destruction of the Jewish Temple, the end of the Mosaic age, and the start of the Messianic Age (Mat 24:1-3, 6, 13-14, 21). The new age will be the time when the Lord’s presence (Gk. parousia) dwells among his people.
The first vision (Rev. 1:9–3:22) assures John that Jesus will be with his people during the tribulation and throughout the new age. Jesus organized his people into churches (Mt 16:16-19; 18:17). This congregational structure ("meeting in the air") will serve as the Temple of God after the Mosaic-Age Temple disappears (cp. 1 Pet 2:5, 1 Cor 3:16). The vision of Christ walking among his churches on earth shows how he intends to sustain his kingdom in the Messianic Age (Rev 2:1) aka "the Millennium Reign of Christ."
The second vision (Rev. 4:1–8:1) concentrates on the tribulation that will end the Mosaic Age. John knows this is God’s curse against apostate Israel. Fifteen centuries earlier, Moses wrote of this curse. It would come in “the latter days” of Israel’s existence as God’s covenant nation (Deu 30:1, 31:29) and would precede the blessings of the Messianic Age (Deu 30:1-20). John is living at the intersection of the curse to apostate Israel and the blessing God had pronounced upon believing Israel of which the Gentile believers are to be grafted in.
Should I continue or do you wish to remain in darkness on these matters?
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Right on PL - his disciples knew the great tribulation was not far off as he told them to watch for the things that were about to happen.
Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
And he told them when to flee:
Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near"
Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
And he told them when to flee:
Luke 21:20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near"
Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.
.Are you sure you are taking in account for everything in the Book of Revelation for that preterist's point of view?
The mark of the beast to buy and sell comes with a dire consequence to be cast into the lake of fire no matter what. Applying it to preterist's point of view that had commented on second class citizens having a mark of that empire does not fit in the Book of Revelation. The saints during the great tribulation will simply not have that mark to be able to buy & sell.
And one third of the earth has not been burned up.
I would not be surprised that 2 Timothy 2:18 is Paul reproving the notion that the preterist's point of view has happened.
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
So in actuality, you are preaching in the dark as much as anyone else is judging another to be in the dark for we know in part and we prophesy in part.
And since it is on God to cause the increase, why flaunt yourself over other people?
Romans 12:[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1 Corinthians 3:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? [SUP]6 [/SUP]I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
I believe the tares in this parable are the saints that have gone astray as described in the church at Thyatira in the 2nd chapter of Revelation as they do utter the depths of Satan for which they speak. They are still saved, but if they do not repent, they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation, thus alluding to the parable of removing out of His kingdom all that offend and do iniquity, in leaving them behind as the wheat, those abiding in Him, are harvested out of the field & thus out of the world.
Only the Lord can help you & other believers to see that truth what I see. I cannot cause the increase.[SUB][SUP]
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Exactly!!! A time of separating was coming back then (66 AD). The Jewish nation was going to be split in two again. This time not into two nations (Israel and Judah) based on tribal identity, but rather split based on spiritual beliefs (i.e. acceptance and worship of the Messiah). The "wheat" or believing Jews were to be protected from the coming great tribulation of Israel, while the "tares" the disbelieving Jews (who grew up alongside the believing Jews and were indistinguishable visibly from them), were to face judgment and utter destruction. The "wheat" were to "escape the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." The "earth" is Israel. The "whole world" is where the tribes were scattered (throughout the whole known world). But it is the "earth" or Israel that is to be tested.
It is amazing how God was able to use the customs (Feast of Unleavened Bread) and laws of apostate Israel to get all the rotten eggs to return to the basket (Jerusalem) for judgment and punishment. It is equally amazing how God got the Romans to defeat Pella of the Decapolis prior to the siege of Jerusalem so that the Christians could later seek refuge there knowing Rome would not return.
Sorry friend, you are too far gone in your views for me to help you. You have lost all concept of audience integrity. When Paul wrote to Timothy or the Corinthians or the Jews living in Rome, he was actually writing to them about things relevant to them in their day. He was not writing to the 21st century American church about events to come in our future, thousands of years later (to Paul). Paul likely had no idea that there would be a United States of America 1700 years later. If he did, he was silent about it.
Paul did not write the Book of Revelation; The apostle John did. Paul was reluctant to talk about what was written, seeing it as unlawful for him to do so.
2 Corinthians 12:1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth [SUP]4 [/SUP]How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.[SUP]5 [/SUP]Of such an one will I glory:...........So yeah.. Paul had no idea that there would be a United States of America as described in Revelation 18th chapter as having fallen in detail immediately after the everlasting gospel has been proclaimed in all the world.
Revelation 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, [SUP]10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: [SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
And the saints do die in fallen Babylon as described in Revelation 18th chapter when the voice of the bride & bridegroom is heard in her no more; hence the door to the Marriage Supper has been shut as the 3 angels set up the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining upon the earth after the rapture had taken place in testifying out of those raptured of the 144,000 virgin men redeemed from the earth to serve as His personal choir in Revelation 14:1-5.
Indeed, when the doors are shut for the celebration, the accuser of our brethren, the devil,... is cast out.
Revelation 12:[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Funny how the devil knows he has a little time left to rally all the armies of the world to come against Jerusalem at the time of Jesus's return as the King of kings at the end of the 7 year great tribulation.
No man knows the day nor the hour? That's pre trib. The way the world is now can be a snare to some believers as they could love their lives on earth not to want to escape what is coming.
Luke 21: [SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. [SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. [SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. [SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Jesus spoke of a fire coming on the earth for why you must be prepared to leave; Luke 12:40-49.
Peter spoke of the fiery judgment that shall melt the firmament with fervent heat in 2 Peter 3rd chapter as relating on par with the global judgment of the world wide flood.
Revelation prophesied that one third of the earth shall be burned up.
I do not see in your point of view of one third of the earth having been burned up at any time in history so do reconsider preterism.... or I leave you to your own judgment as only applicable to yourself.[SUB][/SUB]
Enow,
You cited 2 Timothy, 1 Corinthians and Romans in support of your futurist views. This is why I mentioned Paul. I know who wrote Revelation, its stated in Rev 1:1.
Huh? The USA is found in Rev 18??? Did you write that in there because the USA is not found in my Bible?
You cite a bunch of verses (including 2 Pet 3), all which deal with first century Israel and God's wrath and judgment upon her. Since you don't understand the metaphorical language in use, you clearly don't realize this.
EARTH = ISRAEL in the context of our discussion.
In Isa 1:2, who was he talking to? The entire planet or Israel? John takes most of his symbolism from Isaiah.
But again, I really can't help you. You are too set in your ways and thinking to ever see the truth on these matters. Sorry, not trying to be mean, just keeping it real.
You cited 2 Timothy, 1 Corinthians and Romans in support of your futurist views. This is why I mentioned Paul. I know who wrote Revelation, its stated in Rev 1:1.
Huh? The USA is found in Rev 18??? Did you write that in there because the USA is not found in my Bible?
You cite a bunch of verses (including 2 Pet 3), all which deal with first century Israel and God's wrath and judgment upon her. Since you don't understand the metaphorical language in use, you clearly don't realize this.
EARTH = ISRAEL in the context of our discussion.
In Isa 1:2, who was he talking to? The entire planet or Israel? John takes most of his symbolism from Isaiah.
But again, I really can't help you. You are too set in your ways and thinking to ever see the truth on these matters. Sorry, not trying to be mean, just keeping it real.
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Actually, 2 Timothy 2:18 was directed towards your point of view to give pause. The other references was about how it is on God to cause the increase and so it is not a matter of how well you or I preach for others to see the truth in His words.
Described in Revelation 18th chapter. Not identified by name. I do not see any other nation on earth that would fit the bill.
If you think the global flood was metaphorical, then I can see why you would believe that to be true for what is coming on the earth.
The title of the thread gives it precedent of the meaning of the parable of the tares You applying it to Earth & Israel is your opinion.
Not relevant to the parable of the tares.
When Jesus said the field is the world in the parable, then come harvest time in taking the wheat, you are taking it out of the field and thus out of the world. This is not about saving Jews out of Judaism. This is about the pre trib rapture event when God will judge His House first to remove out of His Kingdom those that offend and do iniquity; and you can't be in His kingdom unless you are a believer. Therefore to take them out of the world as harvested are the ones found abiding in Him.
Look at the church at Thyatira where they are committing spiritual fornication and uttering the depths of Satan for which they speak in Revelation 2 nd chapter. Do note that not all believers living in that city has that doctrine as they are instructed to hold fast till He comes.
Look at the prophesy by Paul to Timothy about how some will depart from faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils having their conscience seared as if with a hot iron in 1 Timothy 4:1-2.
Now the parable of the tares has those of Satan as I see them as those that follow the stranger's voice living with the wheat that follow His voice.
Anyway, your attempt to apply towards the preterist's view is akin to fitting a small 4 corner block in an octagon hole. It may fit in by the four sides, but it does not fill all of the sides in going in. You can say it fits, but there are sides missing to say that it actually fits that point of view.
The one side you are ignoring is the fiery judgment that is coming on the earth, and since it has not happened yet, your point of view is rendered inapplicable.
You did a good job trying to fit all the parts into the preterist's point of view, but ignoring the fiery judgment as meaning metaphorical is like forgetting to put the brakes on the car.
Enow,
Thanks but don't need the pause. I speak the truth regarding these matters. All of this stuff is in the past.
Israel of the 1st century was Babylon the harlot living in an adulterous relationship with Rome. Not only were the two countries in an adulterous relationship but so where their leaders.
I view Noah's flood as global. Did I ever state otherwise? You fail to understand how the prophets and first century Jews used and understood metaphorical language. This is why you think all these past events are future and global. You fail to understand that the "day of the Lord" is not a future event but was rather used to describe at least 4 separate divine judgments against wicked nations, Edom, Egypt, Babylon, and Israel. So when Paul or Peter use the term, they use it to describe the end of Israel soon coming to their generation and John uses the same apocalyptic language (cosmic disturbances) as the OT prophets like Joel and Isaiah used.
No, it's fact. Read it again in the light I've been saying.
First century believers were the wheat. They were gathered into His "barn" aka kingdom, in a spiritual sense. The tares were the unbelieving Jews, all gathered to Jerusalem for passover then surrounded by the Romans, suffered unspeakable tribulation with 93% killed, many by starvation and sword, disease and the "beasts of the earth" (Romans). 1.1 million Jews were killed and then burned in the fires of Jerusalem. If you don't know your history you will never get this.
There was a fiery judgment for those people. Again, study history. Will there be another? Most certainly, in the spiritual realm.
Thanks but don't need the pause. I speak the truth regarding these matters. All of this stuff is in the past.
Israel of the 1st century was Babylon the harlot living in an adulterous relationship with Rome. Not only were the two countries in an adulterous relationship but so where their leaders.
I view Noah's flood as global. Did I ever state otherwise? You fail to understand how the prophets and first century Jews used and understood metaphorical language. This is why you think all these past events are future and global. You fail to understand that the "day of the Lord" is not a future event but was rather used to describe at least 4 separate divine judgments against wicked nations, Edom, Egypt, Babylon, and Israel. So when Paul or Peter use the term, they use it to describe the end of Israel soon coming to their generation and John uses the same apocalyptic language (cosmic disturbances) as the OT prophets like Joel and Isaiah used.
No, it's fact. Read it again in the light I've been saying.
First century believers were the wheat. They were gathered into His "barn" aka kingdom, in a spiritual sense. The tares were the unbelieving Jews, all gathered to Jerusalem for passover then surrounded by the Romans, suffered unspeakable tribulation with 93% killed, many by starvation and sword, disease and the "beasts of the earth" (Romans). 1.1 million Jews were killed and then burned in the fires of Jerusalem. If you don't know your history you will never get this.
There was a fiery judgment for those people. Again, study history. Will there be another? Most certainly, in the spiritual realm.
Enow,
Read Josephus "War of the Jews." First know history, then you will understand the context and mindset of that generation. You will see the Olivet Discourse and Revelation come to life. You can start here, its free.
Book 3 - Bible Study Tools
Read Josephus "War of the Jews." First know history, then you will understand the context and mindset of that generation. You will see the Olivet Discourse and Revelation come to life. You can start here, its free.
Book 3 - Bible Study Tools
The Son of man is going to gather all the vetch out his field? Nah, he will the utilize the vetch to provide ground cover over the winter and provide nitrogen for his field in the spring.
However, the LORD knew from the beginning who would believe him and who should betray him and those who believe that their heavenly Father would send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.Matt 13:41-43
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; Luke 12:3
However, the LORD knew from the beginning who would believe him and who should betray him and those who believe that their heavenly Father would send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.Matt 13:41-43
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; Luke 12:3
Jesus clearly says: Mt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
There are those who think they are saved and are not.
There are indeed no tares in the Church but there are tares in the churches. The churches are local assemblies of believers; but among them are unsaved seekers and those who believe themselves to be saved and are not. it is those who think themselves and are not who hinder the work and the growth of the church.
The Church is all true believers in all times and places.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
There are those who think they are saved and are not.
There are indeed no tares in the Church but there are tares in the churches. The churches are local assemblies of believers; but among them are unsaved seekers and those who believe themselves to be saved and are not. it is those who think themselves and are not who hinder the work and the growth of the church.
The Church is all true believers in all times and places.
In 1 Corinthians 5th chapter, Paul instructed the church about excommunicating an unrepentant "brother". They were not to eat with saved believers living in sin.
Now imagine what God will do at the pre trib rapture event. Do you really think every Christian is going to be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes? When was the last time any church excommunicate an unrepentant believer?
If the church does not do it because of not wanting to lose members; and just have their fingers crossed that the unrepentant believer living in sin will get the message from the pulpit one day and finally repent, then guess Who will do the excommunicating at the pre trib rapture event?
It does not mean they are not saved. Look at what Paul said excommunication does.
1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]5[/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Will not Satan wage war on the saints during the great tribulation?
Now read the condition for fellowship as it must be the same for when sitting at the Marriage Supper table.
1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]9 [/SUP]I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: [SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 John 3:[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
So there are tares in the church that are part of His kingdom which is why they were being taken out of His Kingdom when the angels takes the wheat from the field to the barn, leaving the tares behind in the field and thus in the world to face the coming fire on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation as of a result of that fire..
The call to every believer having His seal is to depart from iniquity now.. not tomorrow... now for the Bridegroom could come at any moment ( not to mention that death can strike at any moment )