THE "MILLENNIUM" VS THE PRESENT KINGDOM OF GOD
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The doctrine of premillennialism denies that Jesus is presently reigning as king in His kingdom. The doctrine asserts that Jesus will come back to this earth and establish a physical kingdom at some time in the future. He is supposed to reign over this physical kingdom on this literal earth for a literal ONE THOUSAND YEARS.
Is this doctrine true or is Christ presently reigning as king over His kingdom? If it can be shown that Christ is presently reigning as king over His kingdom, the doctrine of premillennialism will be shown to be false.
DID JESUS FULFILL MESSIANIC PROPHECY?
When one studies the prophecies regarding the coming of the Messiah, one is impressed that Jesus is the fulfillment of these prophecies. Consequently, he confesses his belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Lord, and the Messiah (king).
If Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophecies, He was not the Christ; He was a false Christ who deluded the people. Of course, we believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. However, let us notice the prophecies made concerning the Messiah.
Isaiah foresaw the glory of Christ and predicted that He would reign as king over God's kingdom.
He wrote,
Isaiah 9:6–7 (NASB95)
6 “For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us, and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.”
When Jesus ascended to the throne, He began to rule from heaven as both Lord and Christ (the anointed one to rule).
Acts 2:36 (NIV)
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
i used to be amille but i stopped it because of revelation 20 itself, their inability to explain zechariah 14 and all other ot verses in a normal way. they also have the problem that they say on the last day earth is destroyed, general resurrection happens and this is also when rapture happens. well big problem if thats true then christians have to burn as the earth burns because they believe its the second resurrection thats physical
another big problem is the spiritualizing of resurrection one in rev 20 but not the other one. where it says 'rest of the dead lived not until....this is the first resurrection'. so if the first resurrection is spiritual and only for christians, why does it say rest of dead (unsaved) dont live until second resurrection after millennium? and in amillennialism those rest of dead would include all of us since its a physical resurrection, first only spiritual. thats why it cant be a spiritual resurrection, otherwise even the lost get that after millennium
so that doesnt make any sense.
what i did like about amill system was how simple it was. you quote matthew 25:31-46 to someone and thats it. thats all there is to end times, Jesus returns one day, judges/resurrects everyone and its over new heaven and earth coming.
that sounds great but i believe no insult that its "lazy" eschatology, they dont take into account all other verses that need to harmonize and be fulfilled also
another big problem is the spiritualizing of resurrection one in rev 20 but not the other one. where it says 'rest of the dead lived not until....this is the first resurrection'. so if the first resurrection is spiritual and only for christians, why does it say rest of dead (unsaved) dont live until second resurrection after millennium? and in amillennialism those rest of dead would include all of us since its a physical resurrection, first only spiritual. thats why it cant be a spiritual resurrection, otherwise even the lost get that after millennium
so that doesnt make any sense.
what i did like about amill system was how simple it was. you quote matthew 25:31-46 to someone and thats it. thats all there is to end times, Jesus returns one day, judges/resurrects everyone and its over new heaven and earth coming.
that sounds great but i believe no insult that its "lazy" eschatology, they dont take into account all other verses that need to harmonize and be fulfilled also
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There is no such thing as a "Millennial Kingdom." It is nothing but a man-made doctrine that was popularized by apostates like John Darby and C.I. Scofield.
Jesus never once mentioned an earthly kingdom and neither anyone else in the scriptures. Jesus even said, "My kingdom is not of this world" in Jn 18:36. Was He lying or did God change His mind?
God does not reign in time and space, He reigns in eternity from heaven.
Isaiah 66:1 (NIV)
"This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"
2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95)
18 “But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built."
Matthew 26:64 (NIV)
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Jesus never once mentioned an earthly kingdom and neither anyone else in the scriptures. Jesus even said, "My kingdom is not of this world" in Jn 18:36. Was He lying or did God change His mind?
God does not reign in time and space, He reigns in eternity from heaven.
Isaiah 66:1 (NIV)
"This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"
2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95)
18 “But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built."
Matthew 26:64 (NIV)
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
True, and they were judged when the temple was destroyed, the city of Jerusalem was burned to the ground and 1.5 million Jews died while the Romans got ready to take the survivors alive and use them as future slaves. After that Israel ceased to be a nation forever because they had rejected and killed their own Messiah, broke God's covenant beyond repair and lastly, they also persecuted Jews who had believed in Jesus to death (1Thes. 2:14-16).
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Rev. 20 says nothing about Jesus stepping down from His throne from heaven to come to a lesser place called earth. No one gets to demote God the Son from this eternal throne in heaven. Zech. 14 is an old covenant scripture that must be fully supported by the NT, which isn't. No OT scriptures can trump NT scriptures because the Bible is one book that finds its complete fulfillment in the redemption of Christ Jesus.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Attachments
Hello Gentle-Warrior,
You are just repeating something that we have heard over and over again, which is a false teaching. The Millennial kingdom is real and will begin when Jesus returns to the earth to end age. The popular apologetic is also that Darby and Mary MacDonald invented the idea of the church being gathered prior to the tribulation. However, the fact is that these teachings are derived from scripture and not any of those previously mentioned. What you are doing is repeating what you've heard other people tell you. I know because I have contended many times regarding the same issue that you are bringing up.
"The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
"Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth."
"After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’ —things known from long ago.
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
"He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
"The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."
"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle."
As you can see, the words "thousand years" is mentioned six times, which begins when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It is when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and after the beast and false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire and all of those kings, generals, their armies and all people, are killed with the double-edged sword that will proceed from the Lord's mount, which is figurative for the word of God.
That is also just a repeated statement because we've heard the very same thing many times. You would do good to drop all of that and do your own studies, because there are many false teachings in the world today, which scripture says would happen. God exists within time and outside of time. However, mankind exists in time and it is mankind who God is dealing with. So, that time and space thing doesn't hold water.
In the above scripture, God was responding to David who wanted to build God a temple. That does not do away with the fact that Jesus is going to rule on the earth during that thousand years.
I'm guessing the next thing that you are going to say is that, the thousand years isn't literal and it began when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. In that case, that would make you a preterist.
Do you believe that Jesus as God appeared in the flesh? If so, then God dwelt in tent of flesh called Jesus of Nazareth and dwelt on the earth as God. Everything that you have posted, has been posted by others who have heard and repeated the same things or read the same false teachings.
This does not support your claim. All that it is saying is that, after Jesus resurrected, He later ascended to the right hand of God where He makes intercession for all believers. And that at the end of the age He is going to leave heaven and arrive on the clouds of the sky where every eye will see Him. This begins the millennial kingdom. Revelation 19:14 has the church (those who will have resurrected and were changed and caught up) following the Lord out of heaven and riding on white horses.
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations."
You are just repeating something that we have heard over and over again, which is a false teaching. The Millennial kingdom is real and will begin when Jesus returns to the earth to end age. The popular apologetic is also that Darby and Mary MacDonald invented the idea of the church being gathered prior to the tribulation. However, the fact is that these teachings are derived from scripture and not any of those previously mentioned. What you are doing is repeating what you've heard other people tell you. I know because I have contended many times regarding the same issue that you are bringing up.
"The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
"Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth."
"After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things’ —things known from long ago.
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."
"He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
"They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
"(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.)
"The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."
"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle."
As you can see, the words "thousand years" is mentioned six times, which begins when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It is when Christ returns to the earth to end the age and after the beast and false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire and all of those kings, generals, their armies and all people, are killed with the double-edged sword that will proceed from the Lord's mount, which is figurative for the word of God.
That is also just a repeated statement because we've heard the very same thing many times. You would do good to drop all of that and do your own studies, because there are many false teachings in the world today, which scripture says would happen. God exists within time and outside of time. However, mankind exists in time and it is mankind who God is dealing with. So, that time and space thing doesn't hold water.
In the above scripture, God was responding to David who wanted to build God a temple. That does not do away with the fact that Jesus is going to rule on the earth during that thousand years.
I'm guessing the next thing that you are going to say is that, the thousand years isn't literal and it began when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. In that case, that would make you a preterist.
Do you believe that Jesus as God appeared in the flesh? If so, then God dwelt in tent of flesh called Jesus of Nazareth and dwelt on the earth as God. Everything that you have posted, has been posted by others who have heard and repeated the same things or read the same false teachings.
This does not support your claim. All that it is saying is that, after Jesus resurrected, He later ascended to the right hand of God where He makes intercession for all believers. And that at the end of the age He is going to leave heaven and arrive on the clouds of the sky where every eye will see Him. This begins the millennial kingdom. Revelation 19:14 has the church (those who will have resurrected and were changed and caught up) following the Lord out of heaven and riding on white horses.
"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations."
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I don't believe it does..
Jesus is Lord and is in control of all existence forever.. The 1000 years is simply a particular phase where Jesus shall rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.. Jesus ruled before.. He rules during the 1000 years and he rules for eternity after the 1000 years..
Currently His throne is in heaven at the right hand of the Father..
During the 1000 years His throne will be in Jerusalem..
Then at the end of the 1000 Years the New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven ( that great city ) and Jesus shall be ruling from within the New Jerusalem..
So constant rule over all things.. Only change is the location of His seat..
Jesus is Lord and is in control of all existence forever.. The 1000 years is simply a particular phase where Jesus shall rule the earth from Jerusalem for 1000 years.. Jesus ruled before.. He rules during the 1000 years and he rules for eternity after the 1000 years..
Currently His throne is in heaven at the right hand of the Father..
During the 1000 years His throne will be in Jerusalem..
Then at the end of the 1000 Years the New Jerusalem will come down out of heaven ( that great city ) and Jesus shall be ruling from within the New Jerusalem..
So constant rule over all things.. Only change is the location of His seat..
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How can something which God has revealed contradict God?
Obviously you do not understand the significance of the Millennium, which is the first phase of the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. And you are forgetting a very important statement of God the Father to God the Son: But to which of the angels said He [God the Father] at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Heb 1:13)
That is a direct quotation from Psalm 110:
1 (A Psalm of David.) The LORD [God the Father] said unto my Lord [God the Son], Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
This will only happen after the Second Coming of Christ. After the Battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19) Christ will establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. And after that the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. Study the Old Testament for details, and be not unbelieving.
Obviously you do not understand the significance of the Millennium, which is the first phase of the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. And you are forgetting a very important statement of God the Father to God the Son: But to which of the angels said He [God the Father] at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? (Heb 1:13)
That is a direct quotation from Psalm 110:
1 (A Psalm of David.) The LORD [God the Father] said unto my Lord [God the Son], Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
This will only happen after the Second Coming of Christ. After the Battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19) Christ will establish His Millennial Kingdom on earth. And after that the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. Study the Old Testament for details, and be not unbelieving.
The very fact that Satan and all his evil spirits and demons are on the loose on earth today proves that at the present time God is allowing sin and evil to grow on this earth. It will culminate in the reign of the Antichrist and Satan for 3 1/2 years on earth (Revelation 13). And it is only after that, and after the Great Tribulation, that Christ will come with power and great glory (and with all His saints and angels) to establish His rule on earth with a rod of iron during the Millennium.
Ummm.... Can you please tell me when Jesus sat upon David's Earthly, political Throne? Or did Gabriel misrepresent the Father?
Luke 1:32-33 New King James Version (NKJV)
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Luke 1:32-33 New King James Version (NKJV)
32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
That could be one of the layers of understanding. Even in each of the ideas of the end time the last day. . there is wiggle room. Catholics were of the Amil as well as the reformers. The end. . "last day" when the time keepers (Sun and moon) will fall out from the sky. Simple just like in Mathew 24. We will get here when the last day does. We walk by faith the unseen . Its one of the reasons he spoke in parables. His sheep hear His voice and not that of their own selves. .
Zechariah 14 and all other OT verses you say as in a normal way of interpreting. That way would be have to be explained. The normal literal way, literalizing? Or according to the spiritual understanding hid in the parables?
Parables are one of the many manners of prophecy, the signified tongue of God
It would seem that God has purposely wrote the Bible so that it would be more difficult to discover many truths in the Bible. It would seem we begin to understand God purposely wrote the Bible to foster unbelief in those who do not desire the salvation of the Bible alone.. And they will set up their own form of Government as a law of men made up of oral tradition thereof.
Jesus declares in Mark 4:11-12
And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. (prophecy) And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? Mark 4: 9-13
Not a salvation issue .But I would offer more as to how can we hear God. And especially in a book that starts out by identifying the kind of language inspired which is signified the language used in parables as that which are defined by 1 Corinthians 4:18 .Using the things seen, the temporal to receive the unseen spiritual understanding.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
You could say what is the signified meaning hid in that parable below. Therfore using the prescription for rightly diiving that parable . Like for instance what do a literal key have to do with unlocking the gates of hell other than the key represents the gospel And how would a literal chain as the gates of bind a lying spirit that has no form? What would the literal words thousand years represent other then the last day . Many metaphors used in that parable. Hands are used to represent the performance of the will the head. Christ is the head of the beheaded ones
Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
That is also just a repeated statement because we've heard the very same thing many times. You would do good to drop all of that and do your own studies, because there are many false teachings in the world today, which scripture says would happen. God exists within time and outside of time. However, mankind exists in time and it is mankind who God is dealing with. So, that time and space thing doesn't hold water.
Mankind the kind seen exists in time and it is mankind who God is dealing with. . . within his time timeless . A thousand years as if it was a day .it how the workd thousand is used throughout the scritures .representing a unknow as to what ever id in view
Yes, many of the literalizers say if first sense makes sense. Do not dig deeper. . . be careful not to scratch the surface for the signified language used in parable as one of the many manners of prophecy,
But literalizing the letter of the law without the law of faith is not a biblical prescription like that 1 Corihtinans 4:18 The law of converting the temporal seen into the eternal not seen which is needed to receive the spiritual understanding hid for those who literalize the standard set forth in the beginning of that chapter (Revelation 1) verse one.
Not sure where the idea comes from. . that if first sense makes any sense do not look for the hidden understanding ?
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Mankind the kind seen exists in time and it is mankind who God is dealing with. . . within his time timeless . A thousand years as if it was a day .it how the workd thousand is used throughout the scritures .representing a unknow as to what ever id in view
Yes, many of the literalizers say if first sense makes sense. Do not dig deeper. . . be careful not to scratch the surface for the signified language used in parable as one of the many manners of prophecy,
But literalizing the letter of the law without the law of faith is not a biblical prescription like that 1 Corihtinans 4:18 The law of converting the temporal seen into the eternal not seen which is needed to receive the spiritual understanding hid for those who literalize the standard set forth in the beginning of that chapter (Revelation 1) verse one.
Not sure where the idea comes from. . that if first sense makes any sense do not look for the hidden understanding ?
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
I don't read anywhere where Luke 1:32-33 speakS of a "Millennial Kingdom." Besides that, it is shameful to think that even though Jesus ascended to heaven after He triumphed over sin, death and the devil, and sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb. 1:3), Christians continue to believe He does nothing in heaven but doodle with His fingers until the manufactured Millennium takes place in the future.
I'd like to ask you one simple question. Please think about it before you respond, since Jesus is God and God has always reigned from heaven, how come you deny that?
Isaiah 66:1 (NIV)
"This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"
2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95)
18 “But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built."
Matthew 26:64 (NIV)
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
So, which of these scriptures are a lie?
