The Moses of our time. A tribute to P.

[LTL]

Many refuse to accept the Savior's Moses (Rev. 15:3).

And, over the years, some have claimed to be the Savior's Moses.

But the Revelation clearly shows that John was called, and he accepted this call (Rev. 10:8-11).

He was appointed by Jesus to be his successor (John 19:26-27) and is on the earth today (John 21:20-24).

For all who can see this, you belong to the Davidic King John; the great Apostle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For all others, you do not.

John's people will be taken in two groups, the first is an exodus (Rev. 12:6), the second is the harvest proper (Rev. 12:7-13). This harvest includes all saints who have remained loyal to the Savior.

Lastly is a harvest to gather anyone who accepts the teachings of the 144,000 (Rev. 12:14). This is the 3.5-year judgment wherein those who followed the beast, the false prophet, and Wormwood are excluded from being gathered (Rev. 16:2-7).

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I've got the popcorn... how much do I need to bring?

 

[Magenta]

I've got the popcorn... how much do I need to bring?

Popcorn

 

[Aaron56]

Many refuse to accept the Savior's Moses (Rev. 15:3).

And, over the years, some have claimed to be the Savior's Moses.

But the Revelation clearly shows that John was called, and he accepted this call (Rev. 10:8-11).

He was appointed by Jesus to be his successor (John 19:26-27) and is on the earth today (John 21:20-24).

For all who can see this, you belong to the Davidic King John; the great Apostle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For all others, you do not.

John's people will be taken in two groups, the first is an exodus (Rev. 12:6), the second is the harvest proper (Rev. 12:7-13). This harvest includes all saints who have remained loyal to the Savior.

Lastly is a harvest to gather anyone who accepts the teachings of the 144,000 (Rev. 12:14). This is the 3.5-year judgment wherein those who followed the beast, the false prophet, and Wormwood are excluded from being gathered (Rev. 16:2-7).

First time, kid?

 

[LTL]

P is a great follower of Jesus Christ. However, he thinks that Jesus does not use servants in his work. Like, there will not be a servant preceding the return of Jesus Christ. Such that all at once Christ comes in the sky, and all go up to meet him.

Like, the type of John the Baptist has no merit. However, it does have merit. And like John the Baptist, the return of the Apostle John precedes the return of Jesus Christ. And his Book of Revelation (BOR) is written largely to that end.

Having four storylines, the BOR emphasises
the 3.5-year tribulation in the seals,
the 3.5-year judgment in the trumpets,
the warning to not take the mark of the beast in Chapters Twelve through Sixteen,
and the judgment upon Babylon ending with New Jerusalem in Chapters Seventeen through Twenty-One.

And through it all, John participates in these storylines using various metaphors and aliases such as "the angel of the waters" in Rev. 16:5-6, "the angel having the key of the bottomless pit" in Rev. 20:1-3, "upon the cloud one sat like the son of man" in Rev. 14:14, etc.

And more clearly in Rev. 4:1 where he was called up to heaven, and Rev. 5:4 where he thought that the souls listed in the book of life were lost forever.

Additionally, he is instructed to measure the temple in Rev. 11:1-2, after which the Savior states in Rev. 11:3 that these two witnesses, the angel and John of Rev. 10:1 through Rev. 11:2, will have power to prophesy for 3.5-years. This is the time of the trumpets, the time of the judgment. And it is after this time that Jesus comes. After the seven years of tribulation and Judgment. Just as it was after his ministry when he walked the earth calling souls to repentance, and then ascended.

The BOR is not difficult when you know how it all fits together.

 

[God-fearing]

Where do the u.f.o.s fit in? I always wondered about that

 

[LTL]

My guess is that UFO's originate with Lucifer as wedges against the gospel of Jesus Christ. Some may be easily explained and some not.

 

[DavidLamb]

Many refuse to accept the Savior's Moses (Rev. 15:3).

Revelation 15:3 says:

(Rev 15:3) They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!


It doesn't mention "the Saviour's Moses." The verse is about those who sing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb.

And, over the years, some have claimed to be the Savior's Moses.

But the Revelation clearly shows that John was called, and he accepted this call (Rev. 10:8-11).

He was appointed by Jesus to be his successor (John 19:26-27) and is on the earth today (John 21:20-24).

Nobody was appointed to be the successor of Jesus. John 19:26-27 say:

(Joh 19:26) When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!"
(Joh 19:27) Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

So yes, Jesus committed Mary to John's care. That is not the same thing as being a successor to Jesus in a more general way, as you imply.

John 21:20-24 does not mean that John has been on earth ever since Jesus spoke those words. Verse 23 in particular is against such an idea:

(Joh 21:23) Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

For all who can see this, you belong to the Davidic King John; the great Apostle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For all others, you do not.

Christians are those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and belong to Him, the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The apostle John is nowhere called a king in the Bible.

John's people will be taken in two groups, the first is an exodus (Rev. 12:6), the second is the harvest proper (Rev. 12:7-13). This harvest includes all saints who have remained loyal to the Savior.

Lastly is a harvest to gather anyone who accepts the teachings of the 144,000 (Rev. 12:14). This is the 3.5-year judgment wherein those who followed the beast, the false prophet, and Wormwood are excluded from being gathered (Rev. 16:2-7).

John's people? Christians are Christ's people. Remember what Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

(1Co 1:11) For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you.
(1Co 1:12) Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
(1Co 1:13) Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I am sure that if any of the Christians at Corinth had been saying, "I am of John," Paul would have included John's name in his list.

 

[LTL]

Revelation 15:3 says:

(Rev 15:3) They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!

It doesn't mention "the Saviour's Moses." The verse is about those who sing the song of Moses and the song of the Lamb.


Nobody was appointed to be the successor of Jesus. John 19:26-27 say:

(Joh 19:26) When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!"
(Joh 19:27) Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

So yes, Jesus committed Mary to John's care. That is not the same thing as being a successor to Jesus in a more general way, as you imply.

John 21:20-24 does not mean that John has been on earth ever since Jesus spoke those words. Verse 23 in particular is against such an idea:

(Joh 21:23) Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

Christians are those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and belong to Him, the King of kings and Lord of Lords. The apostle John is nowhere called a king in the Bible.

John's people? Christians are Christ's people. Remember what Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

(1Co 1:11) For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you.
(1Co 1:12) Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ."
(1Co 1:13) Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

I am sure that if any of the Christians at Corinth had been saying, "I am of John," Paul would have included John's name in his list.

(Rev 15:3)
a) They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God,
b) and the song of the Lamb, saying:
b) "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty!
a) Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!

In the above verse, the servant of God, Moses, is the King of the Saints. He is the Davidic King of our time.


(Joh 19:26) When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!"
(Joh 19:27) Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

Mary had other sons and daughters who could care for her. But he specifically appointed John to be her son, making him the next Davidic King.


(Joh 21:23)
a) Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die.
b) Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die,
c) but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

a) The brethren have it wrong,
b) since Jesus did not say that John would not die
c) but if Jesus wishes for John to remain on earth till he comes again, then so be it.
d) This is the metaphorical definition of "the testimony of Jesus Christ," to live till Jesus comes.
e) Many today have the testimony of Jesus Christ to live till he comes (Rev. 1:9, Rev. 19:10, Rev. 22:6-9)


While all saints belong to Jesus, he appoints servants to preside during their respective generations. Such is the case for John who presides today.

 

[DavidLamb]

(Rev 15:3)
a) They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God,
b) and the song of the Lamb, saying:
b) "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty!
a) Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!

In the above verse, the servant of God, Moses, is the King of the Saints. He is the Davidic King of our time.

That is not what the verse says. It says that they sang the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb. Who did they address the song to? Not to Moses, but to God. It is God who they call "O King of the saints."

(Joh 19:26) When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold your son!"
(Joh 19:27) Then He said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

Mary had other sons and daughters who could care for her. But he specifically appointed John to be her son, making him the next Davidic King.


(Joh 21:23)
a) Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die.
b) Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die,
c) but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

a) The brethren have it wrong,
b) since Jesus did not say that John would not die
c) but if Jesus wishes for John to remain on earth till he comes again, then so be it.
d) This is the metaphorical definition of "the testimony of Jesus Christ," to live till Jesus comes.
e) Many today have the testimony of Jesus Christ to live till he comes (Rev. 1:9, Rev. 19:10, Rev. 22:6-9)


While all saints belong to Jesus, he appoints servants to preside during their respective generations. Such is the case for John who presides today.

But Jesus did not say that John would not die, as John 21:23 makes clear.

 

[LTL]

That is not what the verse says. It says that they sang the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb. Who did they address the song to? Not to Moses, but to God. It is God who they call "O King of the saints."

But Jesus did not say that John would not die, as John 21:23 makes clear.

Two songs, or perhaps one song that includes two individuals.
And these two individuals are:
1) the servant of God, "Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!"
2) and God himself, "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty!"

One individual is the King of saints, and the other is Lord God Almighty.
If you choose to read the verse as Lord God Almighty is the King of saints, then that is okay as well. Since he is the King of Kings (Rev. 17:14). However, this "Moses" servant in Rev. 15:3 is being called "King of saints" referencing the point that he is the Davidic King. And this is John, the Moses of our time, leading the saints to Jesus Christ.

I suppose you think Rev. 12:5 is about the Savior as well, but it is about John. This is why so many have difficulty in understanding the Book of Revelation. They do not realize that it is largely about John's calling to serve as stated in the opening verse, Rev. 1:1.
The message of the BOR is to the 144,000 servants, from God through his servants, the angel and John. And when we get to Rev. 15:3, one of those two servants is called "Moses," because he leads his people to Christ. And John the Baptist had a similar calling. In both cases, God Almighty is introduced to the world by his servants.

And regarding John's mortal death. He makes it clear that he will eventually die. However, his death is postponed till Jesus comes again. And this makes it possible for him to remain upon the earth. In Elijah's case, he did not die and left the earth. So the idea of John still being here, alive upon the earth, is not a big deal. And if Jesus chooses John to be his successor as the Davidic King, then he can do that as well.

The title "Son of David," which Jesus was called during his ministry, means heir to the Davidic throne. Jesus was the Davidic King. And when he was killed, then the throne went to the next rightful heir. And that is the next son of Mary, and designated by Jesus to be John. Thus, John is the Davidic King, and he is still on the earth today. It is he who commands the Savior's army in Rev. 14:14-16. He is upon the cloud, and the cloud is the Savior's army. And understanding this opens up Rev. 1:7, where everyone will see the Savior's army referenced as the clouds. This is the army of Rev. 10:1, called the cloud, and this army is sealed in Rev. 7:4-8, and engages in warfare in Rev. 19:17-21. The leader of this army is John, the Davidic King of our time.

 

[LTL]

I am looking at the type that spans Noah's exodus at the time of the flood, to Lot's departure involving the two witnesses.

When these two events are represented in the seven years of tribulation and judgment, the first begins the tribulation, and the second ends the judgment.

In the shadow of the type, they are seven years apart. Seven years from the shadow of Noah's flood (the exodus), to the shadow of the two witnesses leading Lot out of Sodom (Jews out of Jerusalem).

Between these two bookends is Melchezedek at Salem, Abraham coming to Salem, Abraham sacrificing Isaaic, and Abraham being visited by the two witnesses.

The entire structure shows how the events of the seven years go together.

 

[PaulThomson]

Many refuse to accept the Savior's Moses (Rev. 15:3).

And, over the years, some have claimed to be the Savior's Moses.

But the Revelation clearly shows that John was called, and he accepted this call (Rev. 10:8-11).

He was appointed by Jesus to be his successor (John 19:26-27) and is on the earth today (John 21:20-24).

For all who can see this, you belong to the Davidic King John; the great Apostle of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. For all others, you do not.

John's people will be taken in two groups, the first is an exodus (Rev. 12:6), the second is the harvest proper (Rev. 12:7-13). This harvest includes all saints who have remained loyal to the Savior.

Lastly is a harvest to gather anyone who accepts the teachings of the 144,000 (Rev. 12:14). This is the 3.5-year judgment wherein those who followed the beast, the false prophet, and Wormwood are excluded from being gathered (Rev. 16:2-7).

You do realise that Joseph Smith was a fraud, right?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Where do the u.f.o.s fit in? I always wondered about that

Maybe that's where he got the whackadoodle from

 

[LTL]

You do realise that Joseph Smith was a fraud, right?

The Book of Revelation is not about Joseph Smith. There seems to be a phobia about Smith. Are you afraid of him? Oh, am I supposed to sing your mantra about Smith? I will not join your cult.

Maybe that's where he got the whackadoodle from

CRD, you are post-trib. The exodus follows the type of Noah in the Ark, and Lot escaping the destruction of hellfire is the ending rapture. You are supposed to be on my side. My wingman.

 

[PaulThomson]

The Book of Revelation is not about Joseph Smith. There seems to be a phobia about Smith. Are you afraid of him? Oh, am I supposed to sing your mantra about Smith? I will not join your cult.



CRD, you are post-trib. The exodus follows the type of Noah in the Ark, and Lot escaping the destruction of hellfire is the ending rapture. You are supposed to be on my side. My wingman.

The only people I know of on the planet who believe the apostle John is still alive are the Smithites, who claim out of one side of their mouth that the Apostle has remained alive on earth and will remain alive on earth until Christ returns, and from the other side of their mouth they claim that the reason Joseph Smith was called to restore the church was because there were no righteous men left on the earth in Smith’s day. The Law of Non-contradiction exposes either one or both claims to be false.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The only people I know of on the planet who believe the apostle John is still alive are the Smithites, who claim out of one side of their mouth that the Apostle has remained alive on earth and will remain alive on earth until Christ returns, and from the other side of their mouth they claim that the reason Joseph Smith was called to restore the church was because there were no righteous men left on the earth in Smith’s day. The Law of Non-contradiction exposes either one or both claims to be false.

Interesting. Is this what you are referring to?

About

We are a group who still accept that there is something virtuous in what Joseph Smith has taught about Jesus Christ, regardless of our current affiliation with the LDS church. About The Header Pict…

www.christiansforjosephsmith.org

 

[LTL]

The only people I know of on the planet who believe the apostle John is still alive are the Smithites, who claim out of one side of their mouth that the Apostle has remained alive on earth and will remain alive on earth until Christ returns, and from the other side of their mouth they claim that the reason Joseph Smith was called to restore the church was because there were no righteous men left on the earth in Smith’s day. The Law of Non-contradiction exposes either one or both claims to be false.

PT,
Interesting. So if the Mormons believe something, then it must be wrong.

However, John was identified by the Savior to be the next Davidic King. Because the eldest son of Mary is the Davidic King. And when Jesus dies, then the next in line is John. Jesus stated as such. Do the Mormons believe that? And if they do, then are you saying it is wrong based upon that finding?

Like, if the Mormons believe that a milk jug contains milk, then it must be wrong. You are making me laugh.

And the claim that no righteous men were upon the earth at the time of Smith is clearly false. So we agree on that.

So I do not see the contradiction. In the first case, John as the Davidic King during our time is true, and in the second case, there were righteous men during the time of Smith, making the claim of no righteous men false.

However, I do not think the Mormons believe John to be the Davidic King. They are not that astute, but follow thieves as their leaders.

 

[ResidentAlien]

However, John was identified by the Savior to be the next Davidic King. Because the eldest son of Mary is the Davidic King. And when Jesus dies, then the next in line is John.

Only problem with that is, after Jesus there is no one else in line for the throne of David. Jesus reigns on the throne of David forever.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"Then the angel said to her, 'Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.' " Luke 1:30-33