The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE

[Jackson123]

Well, no offence, but instead of making comments like this how about post some scripture and contend for the faith that has once been delivered unto the saints and as long as men who teach heretical dogma continue to post I will continue to defend the word of God down to the last (bullet)......Just think how well it would have been for (OUR) brothers had they just given up at Khe Sanh? Really.........................!

I agree with you brother. Our obligation to preach the gospel patiently. Faith come by hearing. If no body sound off, than no body hear. They will hear from false doctrine instead than have a false faith.

 

[elf3]

Why would someone who does not believe want to be baptized?

This is not the point. The point is that we are justified by faith. We are not justified by baptism or works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are correct, "ye" is second person plural, I had it backwards, so what is your point? are you trying to apply the English Grammar to the Greek?

lol. Grammar is still the same.

Scripture was written in greek, not english.

so why will you not listen to the greek?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(Mark 16:16 [NKJV])
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Believe = true[/TD]
[TD]Baptized = false[/TD]
[TD]Saved = false[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Believe = false[/TD]
[TD]Baptized = true[/TD]
[TD]Saved = false[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Believe = false[/TD]
[TD]Baptized = false[/TD]
[TD]Saved = false[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Believe = true[/TD]
[TD]Baptized = true[/TD]
[TD]Saved = true[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Now to the second half, if one does not believe, then baptism would not be required as they are already lost, no one thing will save you, baptism requires belief, belief requires baptism for Saved to be true.

Simple logic.

nce twist. That is not what it says.

It says condemnation is ONLY because of unbelief. And you assume baptise in the first part is water.. You would be wrong. Or Jesus screwed up in john.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Why did Jesus leave baptism out if it is required. did he make a mistake and contradict himself (in mark)

Or was he not talking about water baptism in mark, but spiritual baptism? Which would make Mark and Johns comments be in complete agreement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you actually took the time to look at all that is written you would realize that your assumptions are incorrect as NOT one person who teaches what the bible teaches has said to NOT BE IMMERSED and or to NOT DO the works!

LOST-->hear the word-->trust the word (faith)-->saved, justified, sanctified and sealed-->USABLE for the WORKS that are the direct result of biblical faith......!

they can;t do this, they would have to admit they are wrong.

 

[elf3]

ROMANS 5:1,2

Will any of yinz actually read it? Or because it doesn't mention baptism as justification it's irrelevant?

And yet again yinz gotta actually read what we say and stop assuming we are saying "don't get baptized" and "don't do good works".

WE HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT!!!!

Is that loud enough for yinz?

 

[blue_ladybug]

ROMANS 5:1,2

Will any of yinz actually read it? Or because it doesn't mention baptism as justification it's irrelevant?

And yet again yinz gotta actually read what we say and stop assuming we are saying "don't get baptized" and "don't do good works".

WE HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT!!!!

Is that loud enough for yinz?

​Yeah, thanks I'm deaf now.. lol jk Scream it a little louder for the others, though.. I don't think they heard ya..lol

 

[elf3]

​Yeah, thanks I'm deaf now.. lol jk Scream it a little louder for the others, though.. I don't think they heard ya..lol

Haha!!! Sorry LB

 

[Jabberjaw]

This is not the point. The point is that we are justified by faith. We are not justified by baptism or works.

nce twist. That is not what it says.

It says condemnation is ONLY because of unbelief. And you assume baptise in the first part is water.. You would be wrong. Or Jesus screwed up in john.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Why did Jesus leave baptism out if it is required. did he make a mistake and contradict himself (in mark)

Or was he not talking about water baptism in mark, but spiritual baptism? Which would make Mark and Johns comments be in complete agreement.

It is exactly what it says, again, why would anyone want to be baptized if they did not believe?

 

[newbirth]

This is not the point. The point is that we are justified by faith. We are not justified by baptism or works.

James says different...
[h=1]James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 

[Jabberjaw]

ROMANS 5:1,2

Will any of yinz actually read it? Or because it doesn't mention baptism as justification it's irrelevant?

And yet again yinz gotta actually read what we say and stop assuming we are saying "don't get baptized" and "don't do good works".

WE HAVE NEVER ONCE SAID THAT!!!!

Is that loud enough for yinz?

You have sins and are not in a saved condition with sins until one first believes AND IS BAPTIZED.

 

[Bride]

It's like watching kids in the arcade kiddie section of the pizza parlour with little mallets, knocking down the little heads that pop up here and there. No...I...won't...stay... down... ah!

 

[Jabberjaw]

lol. Grammar is still the same.

Scripture was written in greek, not english.

so why will you not listen to the greek?

No, Greek grammar is not the same as English, no wonder you cant figure it out,

So show me in the Greek where you think I have a problem in Acts 2:38...

I think you will find you are wrong about the grammar trying to remove baptism...

Show me where the Greek says different than the English....

 

[Brainfreeze]

James says different...
James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Your correct...here, Now, what came first ?

 

[newbirth]

Yep sinners saved. Washed by the blood of Christ.

and what exactly are you saved from....imagine you save a man from drowning and he goes around telling everyone he is still drowning....imagine Christ saved you from sin and you go around telling everyone you are a sinner...did he not tell you sin no more?.........
Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

 

[Jabberjaw]

This is not the point. The point is that we are justified by faith. We are not justified by baptism or works.

You are justified just like Abraham, by obedience:

(Jas 2:21 [NKJV])
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Abraham OBEYED God when he was COMMANDED to offer up Isaac.

 

[dcontroversal]

they can;t do this, they would have to admit they are wrong.

Oh I agree for sure....don't listen, assume what we believe, reject what we say and totally ignore scripture.........!

 

[elf3]

You have sins and are not in a saved condition with sins until one first believes AND IS BAPTIZED.

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Gal 2:116 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith."

You keep referring to Matthew 16:16. How about you read the rest of the Bible too.

 

[dcontroversal]

Really? So I scrolled back five pages or more before giving up, none of your posts contain scriptures. NOT ONE. I only see you echo and parrot others with rudeness and arrogance. Quite a post here sparky...

Well, I guess you cannot see that well because 9 posts back I partially quote from and reference 1st John chapter 1....!

 

[elf3]

James says different...
[h=1]James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

You are justified just like Abraham, by obedience:

(Jas 2:21 [NKJV])
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Abraham OBEYED God when he was COMMANDED to offer up Isaac.

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"

Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Gal 2:116 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith."

You keep referring to Matthew 16:16. How about you read the rest of the Bible too.

I will add Romans 4:2,3 "If in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-but not before God. What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. "

Maybe you are reading James in the wrong context? Actually you are reading James in the wrong context.