The MOST CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENT MADE

[dcontroversal]

My post was only to whoever might be an enemy of baptism, those who say it isn't of WATER as well as by blood and spirit, they know who they are, so why would you reply to me?

.

WHERE in the FOLLOWING POST did you IMPLY what you say above lets us compare and see if what you are saying jives...

Originally Posted by Bride The enemy will war hard against the actual GATEWAY to the Kingdom of God, the baptism by the water and the word. It is about submission to Jesus. Those who protest water baptism by throwing around the word "works" (ahh! works are bad! lol!) as an excuse not to be baptized by water, are simply demonstrating their open rebellion against Christ Jesus Himself. The appointed way is accomplished by us as a rite appointed by Jesus, "to fulfill all righteousness". Certainly such a person who rejects being baptized by water will never be baptized by the Holy Spirit of Jesus. It is one of the many ways we can mark those of the enemy and remove them from our midst, unless they cease their war against the Word.

You are hypocritically accusing us of ever saying that.My post was only to whoever might be an enemy of baptism, those who say it isn't of WATER as well as by blood and spirit, they know who they are, so why would you reply to me?

I AM HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING...whoever might be an enemy of baptism, those who say it isn't of water and well as by blood and spirit in your FIRST comment.....SO.....is this deceptive at best?

 

[dcontroversal]

Well I apologize if I took it wrong.

Compare the two posts and you will see they don't say the same thing as the second post is damage control and doesn't even imply what was said in the first post.....must be cousins with Mr. Twisty>

Originally Posted by Bride The enemy will war hard against the actual GATEWAY to the Kingdom of God, the baptism by the water and the word. It is about submission to Jesus. Those who protest water baptism by throwing around the word "works" (ahh! works are bad! lol!) as an excuse not to be baptized by water, are simply demonstrating their open rebellion against Christ Jesus Himself. The appointed way is accomplished by us as a rite appointed by Jesus, "to fulfill all righteousness". Certainly such a person who rejects being baptized by water will never be baptized by the Holy Spirit of Jesus. It is one of the many ways we can mark those of the enemy and remove them from our midst, unless they cease their war against the Word.

Originally Posted by Bride My post was only to whoever might be an enemy of baptism, those who say it isn't of WATER as well as by blood and spirit, they know who they are, so why would you reply to me?

 

[elf3]

Huh?..pretty interesting.

 

[Tateej]

For dcontroversal: okay, being I've grown up with a man who has taught Greek since I was a kid and still to today at Tri-Coties school of preaching (my father) I don't see this to be too big of a task to do then. I see that the words of Jesus by your statements don't mean anything nor do they have authority if baptism has to be mentioned more than once with faith to make it of effect to follow. But yes I will list every verse with the word saved and it will be a long post seeing there are 57 times the word saved is used. I'll be back once I get through this then listing the context, the Greek word, definition (within context), and wether it's a command to follow or just a passing statement. DO NOTE: A command only has to be written once to be followed not everytime it's mentioned. That's the beauty of the gospels. Written by different men giving a different detail (more at times) than the other did but not in contradiction. So should I include the authority of Jesus compared to Paul then as well including the context of your Faith has saved thee statement being directed to the woman only when talking to Simon.

 

[dcontroversal]

For dcontroversal: okay, being I've grown up with a man who has taught Greek since I was a kid and still to today at Tri-Coties school of preaching (my father) I don't see this to be too big of a task to do then. I see that the words of Jesus by your statements don't mean anything nor do they have authority if baptism has to be mentioned more than once with faith to make it of effect to follow. But yes I will list every verse with the word saved and it will be a long post seeing there are 57 times the word saved is used. I'll be back once I get through this then listing the context, the Greek word, definition (within context), and wether it's a command to follow or just a passing statement. DO NOTE: A command only has to be written once to be followed not everytime it's mentioned. That's the beauty of the gospels. Written by different men giving a different detail (more at times) than the other did but not in contradiction. So should I include the authority of Jesus compared to Paul then as well including the context of your Faith has saved thee statement being directed to the woman only when talking to Simon.

Well good for you....he also said...Thy faith hath made the WHOLE............! Awesome a school of preaching...which means what as the world is full of preachers that teach heresy everyday....and if I remember right I said look up SAVE......

 

[Tateej]

Okay brownies then, 62 mentions for save and 57 for saved. I'll do them both then and make sections on the commands, used in passing, or just not applied. I can't exclude saved when saved is just a different tense of save. And the study begins

 

[elf3]

(1Jn 5:8)
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
[/QUOTE]

Okay brownies then, 62 mentions for save and 57 for saved. I'll do them both then and make sections on the commands, used in passing, or just not applied. I can't exclude saved when saved is just a different tense of save. And the study begins

Is that church called "stoney creek church of Christ congregational"?

 

[Tateej]

Stoney Creek Church of Christ is a congregation (yes) that is one of the supporters of the Tri-Cities School of Preaching (yes)

 

[elf3]

Stoney Creek Church of Christ is a congregation (yes) that is one of the supporters of the Tri-Cities School of Preaching (yes)

Pretty interesting. One of the quotes on the Web site is as follows...."members are given the right to follow and interpret the Word of God according to the dictates of personal conscience." So basically you can make the Word of God say what you want.

Perfect way to study the Bible. Totally wrong! Wrong by like 10,000%!

 

[elf3]

Stoney Creek Church of Christ is a congregation (yes) that is one of the supporters of the Tri-Cities School of Preaching (yes)

Pretty interesting. One of the quotes on the Web site is as follows...."members are given the right to follow and interpret the Word of God according to the dictates of personal conscience." So basically you can make the Word of God say what you want.

Perfect way to study the Bible. Totally wrong! Wrong by like 10,000%!

Since that school "thing" is supported by that church it has to be the ABSOLUTE WORST form of exegesis I have ever heard of. "According to the dictates of personal conscience". Shoot I could do that without school. And you pay money for that? Wow hope you got a scholarship.

 

[Tateej]

YOURE putting that in the wrong context. Members are encouraged to study the bible outside of services in personal study that when we come back together during Boble study either Sunday morning or Wednesday night we can discuss them and come to a unified answer within the bond arise of the Bible. People are not robots and you don't learn anything if you don't question things and look into it. This whole discussion with others is something I'm trying out because I haven't done it before. But back to the question here, it's not belive what you want thing, it's come together with your personal interpretation and let's study and talk about it and see if it is in the Bible that we the authority to do it. It's not what you are saying, that is very much wrong.

 

[Tateej]

Sorry, I didn't mean to capitalize you're. Sorry

 

[elf3]

YOURE putting that in the wrong context. Members are encouraged to study the bible outside of services in personal study that when we come back together during Boble study either Sunday morning or Wednesday night we can discuss them and come to a unified answer within the bond arise of the Bible. People are not robots and you don't learn anything if you don't question things and look into it. This whole discussion with others is something I'm trying out because I haven't done it before. But back to the question here, it's not belive what you want thing, it's come together with your personal interpretation and let's study and talk about it and see if it is in the Bible that we the authority to do it. It's not what you are saying, that is very much wrong.

Dude read the quote again from that church website. How could that possibly be taken out of context.

 

[elf3]

YOURE putting that in the wrong context. Members are encouraged to study the bible outside of services in personal study that when we come back together during Boble study either Sunday morning or Wednesday night we can discuss them and come to a unified answer within the bond arise of the Bible. People are not robots and you don't learn anything if you don't question things and look into it. This whole discussion with others is something I'm trying out because I haven't done it before. But back to the question here, it's not belive what you want thing, it's come together with your personal interpretation and let's study and talk about it and see if it is in the Bible that we the authority to do it. It's not what you are saying, that is very much wrong.

And we have NO authority to interpret the Bible the way we want. The Bible can ONLY be interpreted by the Bible through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Read Proverbs 3:5,6

 

[Tateej]

,Everyone is free to make their own choices and opinions in the world. We do not believe in believe whatever you want and go with it. If the Bible gives the authority for us to do so then we do it, if it doesn't, then we don't. Everyone is entitled to their own idea IF THEY WANT TO but with that in mind, if your personal opinion is different from what the Bible says, then that is the error. People worship here, not robots. You must be able to complete 1 Thes. 5:21 in Bible context. That's how we do it.

 

[posthuman]

Re: NUTS

Funny with all the posts on this subject in this forum or any other forum I don't recall anyone ever saying don't be baptized.

You are hypocritically accusing us of ever saying that.

it is nuts.

we talk about how H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism is only a physical picture of a great spiritual reality, and we're accused of condemning or forbidding baptism and disobeying the command of God.

we talk about how God alone is the author of our salvation, and the cause and enabling power behind every good thing we do, and we're accused of preaching that we should do nothing.

we talk about how we are saved by grace, not by any works, and we're accused of wanting to continue on in sin.

we talk about being dead to the law and no longer under it, and how our righteousness comes from Christ, not from ourselves, and we're accused of hating justice and righteousness and loving lawlessness.

we talk about fixing our eyes on heaven and remembering that we're citizens of God's kingdom, no longer of the world, and we're accused of burying our heads in the sand and running away from all our problems.

we talk about loving our neighbors, serving the poor and treating even our enemies with compassion, and we're accused of being sympathizers with criminals, terrorists and the ungodly.

we talk gratefully about the free and wonderful gift of God to whosoever will believe, and we're accused of not loving Him.

but all this is nothing, in fact it's an honor, because we talk this way in service and praise to the risen Lord, not humans!

 

[elf3]

,Everyone is free to make their own choices and opinions in the world. We do not believe in believe whatever you want and go with it. If the Bible gives the authority for us to do so then we do it, if it doesn't, then we don't. Everyone is entitled to their own idea IF THEY WANT TO but with that in mind, if your personal opinion is different from what the Bible says, then that is the error. People worship here, not robots. You must be able to complete 1 Thes. 5:21 in Bible context. That's how we do it.

Yeah "test everything". But the Bible cannot be interpreted by your "conscience". The Bible can only be tested against itself. You bring your conscience into Bible interpretation and you will be way way way off mark.

 

[elf3]

it is nuts.

we talk about how H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism is only a physical picture of a great spiritual reality, and we're accused of condemning or forbidding baptism and disobeying the command of God.

we talk about how God alone is the author of our salvation, and the cause and enabling power behind every good thing we do, and we're accused of preaching that we should do nothing.

we talk about how we are saved by grace, not by any works, and we're accused of wanting to continue on in sin.

we talk about being dead to the law and no longer under it, and how our righteousness comes from Christ, not from ourselves, and we're accused of hating justice and righteousness and loving lawlessness.

we talk about fixing our eyes on heaven and remembering that we're citizens of God's kingdom, no longer of the world, and we're accused of burying our heads in the sand and running away from all our problems.

we talk about loving our neighbors, serving the poor and treating even our enemies with compassion, and we're accused of being sympathizers with criminals, terrorists and the ungodly.

we talk gratefully about the free and wonderful gift of God to whosoever will believe, and we're accused of not loving Him.

but all this is nothing, in fact it's an honor, because we talk this way in service and praise to the risen Lord, not humans!

Yep, it's called a twisting of our words. We have not once said "don't do anything" or "sit back and watch the show". They just kinda add that too our words.

 

[Tateej]

I know this dude, we have the same idea in mind. I am human as is the rest of the world ( I hope!) and we must choose whether we want to believe the words of the Bible or not. If my conscience is telling me that something is wrong in my interpretation of something I look into it. God is no dictator, He just a asks that we do what He commands of us and being people who have the freedom to choose, the conscience can misguide someone or tell them they are right in their reasoning. We do have rights given to choose between good and bad. We want people to look into things rather than just hearing something and believing it. The seed being sown here needs roots. But again within Bible authority for whatever we do. There's nothing wrong with thinking a new idea because then we look into it and see if it is within the authority we have to follow. If the idea is unscriptural then we don't do it, if it is scriptural then we can do it. I promise we're on the same side. There's no difference in views I'm finding here on this unless you see something I'm not. It's strictly do if the Bible says yes and don't if it says no.

 

[elf3]

I know this dude, we have the same idea in mind. I am human as is the rest of the world ( I hope!) and we must choose whether we want to believe the words of the Bible or not. If my conscience is telling me that something is wrong in my interpretation of something I look into it. God is no dictator, He just a asks that we do what He commands of us and being people who have the freedom to choose, the conscience can misguide someone or tell them they are right in their reasoning. We do have rights given to choose between good and bad. We want people to look into things rather than just hearing something and believing it. The seed being sown here needs roots. But again within Bible authority for whatever we do. There's nothing wrong with thinking a new idea because then we look into it and see if it is within the authority we have to follow. If the idea is unscriptural then we don't do it, if it is scriptural then we can do it. I promise we're on the same side. There's no difference in views I'm finding here on this unless you see something I'm not. It's strictly do if the Bible says yes and don't if it says no.

There was a guy by the name of Charles Taze Russell who decided to interpret the Bible by his conscience also. That guy was the founder of the Jehovahs Witness. Because of their interpretation of the Bible by their "conscience" they now have their own translation (if you can call it that) of the Bible. One thing they don't believe...the divinity of Jesus.

So yeah get rid of your conscience trust in the Holy Spirit for guidance and don't EVER rely on your own understanding.