The Natural Man

Iconoclast · Sep 3, 2020

Paul is rebuking these professed Christians in that theyare acting as if they are unsaved

throughfaith · Sep 3, 2020

You could put ' held at gun point , kicking and screaming ' my point would be the same. The CAN come if drawn by the father ( before the cross ) but clearly it doesn't say they all believed Jesus that came. And the fact that most left Jesus ,further makes my point .
Then to add to Jesus ' drawing all men ' John 1.9
That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world.
Then the Holy Spirt , not ' drawing ' but ...John 16:8-14
King James Version
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
And you don't have a verse saying the Father is still drawing after the cross . Its most likely due to the fact that the death burial and resurrection hadn't happened yet the Father was drawing the disciples ect . Not that it says all believed who were forced by God to come. ( in your words )

14meatcc · Sep 3, 2020

I think the natural man is the man (any man) that does not possess the Spirit of God. Period

throughfaith · Sep 3, 2020

Iconoclast said:

This is the rebuke
3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5¶Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Ogom · Sep 3, 2020

throughfaith said:

of course no one is forcing anyone to believe, that would be impossible to do.

if you believed by accepting it on faith, then you did not think it 100% foolish or useless to do did you? or you would not have believed.

throughfaith · Sep 3, 2020

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14meatcc said:

I'd simply say that any man that does not have the Holy Spirit will not be Glorified. He is not ' in Christ '

Webers.Home · Sep 3, 2020

.
● Rom 10:16-17 . . For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It was by the word of God that the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --came into existence. Now, the important thing to note is that it wasn't God's written word that did all that; it was His spoken word.

"And God said" (Gen 1:3)

I suggest that the kind of hearing we're looking at in Rom 10:17 is miraculous, viz: it comes to people via a direct application of God's divine power, i.e. His creative power.

● Eph 2:10 . .We are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

● Eph 4:24 . . Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

● Col 3:10 . .You have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him:

● 2Cor 5:17 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation
_

jackrosie · Sep 3, 2020

throughfaith said:

How many times have I got to say,I am not a Calvanist ....pull back before its to late?

jackrosie · Sep 3, 2020

throughfaith said:

A man is not glorified.....only the HS is glorified.....we glorify God.....what have you done to be glorified?

We are made alive in Christ when we are born again,...we are a new creation and God recognises us as his children.

jackrosie · Sep 3, 2020

Whatever you do do it to glorify God.

My saving was of God ,so all the Glory goes to God.....i get zilch glory./ nada..

Webers.Home · Sep 3, 2020

.

throughfaith said:

The grammatical tense of John 1:9 is neither past nor future; it's always
present, viz; ongoing (whatever tense that is). In other words; the true light
has been enlightening people from the very beginning, starting with Adam.

Now, not everyone down through the eons of human experience has enjoyed
the benefit of direct communication with God like Adam did. Most people's
true light has come to them indirectly, via the cosmos -- all of its forms of
life, matter, and energy.

● Ps 19:1-4 . . The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the
work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night
they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is
not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of
the world.

● Rom 1:19-20 . .What may be known about God is plain, because God has
made it plain. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--
his eternal power and divine nature --have been clearly seen, being
understood from what has been made.

However, the cosmos says nothing about a Jew named Jesus Christ, nor
about his crucifixion for the sins of the world. Though the cosmos' voice says
a lot about intelligent design and the existence of a supreme being, it says
little else.
_

jackrosie · Sep 3, 2020

Isaiah 42:8

I am the LORD : that is my name:and my glory will I not give to another,neither my praise to graven images.

We live in a fallen world,with many humans being worshipped falsely.....for so many different reasons....how can anyone worship a singer,but many do.....because they are following the world and not God.

throughfaith · Sep 3, 2020

jackrosie said:

Do you believe in Total Depravity ? So regeneration has to precede faith ? That without ' enabling ' by irresistible ' grace a person cannot believe the Gospel ?

Do you believe that you were chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved ?

Do you believe Jesus died for the sins of the whole world . Not just For the 'elect ' but for the entire cosmos?

Do you believe regeneration has to precede faith ? That only those irresistibly ' drawn ' will come to Jesus ?

Do you believe all saved people will and must persevere in good works and holiness and that this is how we know we are saved . That you have to endure to the end to be saved ?

ForestGreenCook · Sep 3, 2020

throughfaith said:

There is so many Presuppositions and assumptions in this one comment I barely know where to begin .
/////You are the one that is grossly misinterpreting the Corinthian letter. The natural man cannot discern the things of the Spirit until after he has been quickened with a new fleshy heart whose conscience can be pricked when he breaks a spiritual law./////
This is begging the question . Your assuming the ' Natural man ' is a unsaved man . And your assuming that the ' spiritual man ' is any saved person ( correct me if I'm wrong ) Both of these terms are loaded terms for some. But in the text they are not . Paul is simply talking about Fleshy behaviour from believers and the point that they need to mature . Verse 6 of chapter 2 explains the mature do understand the mature things ( the deeper wisdom of God ) The Holy Spirit has been given to all believers
1 cor 6.19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Clearly these ( non mature ) fleshy belivers are struggling.

1¶It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Unless they " be transformed by the renewing of their minds they will be stuck on the milk struggling.
chapter 3 explains the Natural/;fleshy/ carnal / babes problems.
1¶And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

NOTICE THEY ARE UNABLE !!!!!!! BELIEVERS UNABLE TO BEAR AND UNDERSTAND THE THINGS OF GOD PAUL WANTS THEM TO GROW IN . THE WISDOM HE SHARES WITH THE MATURE .

It is useless to keep correcting, over and over, the things that have been engraved in your mind, by false doctrine preachers.

The only way that any of uis learn anything about the truth that Jesus taught will be by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within us.

As long as a person is depending upon his own entelect, the Holy Spirit will not reveal any truths, because the person would take credit for themselves, instead of giving credit to God.

EleventhHour · Sep 3, 2020

throughfaith said:

I really do not think Paul is comparing two types of believers .. canal man and the spiritual man.... since no believer can be classified as 100% one or the other.

Yes the assembly at Corinth had many babes in Christ but that does not mean they were not spiritual .. or that they could not understand spiritual truth....if anything they needed to understand it the most.

Paul is stating that those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.

The same in 1 Cor2:14.

The contrast in context is human wisdom and divine revelation .. the access point is divine revelation ... hearing the Gospel, not human wisdom... since the Gnostics thought they could know god through human wisdom.

Context.. what did Paul's audience need to understand!

jackrosie · Sep 3, 2020

ForestGreenCook said:

It is useless to keep correcting, over and over, the things that have been engraved in your mind, by false doctrine preachers.

The only way that any of uis learn anything about the truth that Jesus taught will be by the revelation of the Holy Spirit within us.

As long as a person is depending upon his own entelect, the Holy Spirit will not reveal any truths, because the person would take credit for themselves, instead of giving credit to God.

Brilliant and spot on.....Amen!

EleventhHour · Sep 3, 2020

ForestGreenCook said:

I wonder what happened then since you think God regenerates before belief which is not in scripture?

DiscipleA · Sep 3, 2020

Saul didn't believe at all what the Christians taught. In fact he persecuted the Christians. Then suddenly something happened. He became Paul.

EleventhHour · Sep 3, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

Here is the key to understanding what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 2: THAT WE (CHRISTIANS) MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit [capitalized] which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. (verse 12)

After the Gospel has been preached, believed, and obeyed, there is whole raft of spiritual blessings ("all spiritual blessings") which are given to the children of God by God Himself. And they can only be understood by those who have the Spirit of God.

But to claim that God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to unsaved sinners so that they might be saved through the Gospel is the HEIGHT OF ABSURDITY. And that is what Calvinism is all about. One absurdity after another.

I think it is absolutely correct and necessary to mention Calvinism since it is the source, not scripture and people need at least be honest about the source of their dogma.

throughfaith · Sep 3, 2020

EleventhHour said:

I really do not think Paul is comparing two types of believers .. canal man and the spiritual man.... since no believer can be classified as 100% one or the other.

Yes the assembly at Corinth had many babes in Christ but that does not mean they were not spiritual .. or that they could not understand spiritual truth....if anything they needed to understand it the most.

Paul is stating that those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.

The same in 1 Cor2:14.

The contrast in context is human wisdom and divine revelation .. the access point is divine revelation ... hearing the Gospel, not human wisdom... since the Gnostics thought they could know god through human wisdom.

Context.. what did Paul's audience need to understand!

Would you agree that one can be a mature believer and one can be a carnal believer?

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