The Need for Spiritual Fathers for the People of God

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Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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If the body of Christ is not institutional but organic, how does it actually function then? The box of our thinking, with respect to where the church operates, is that it's institutional; men derive their authority from the institution. This is the model that the Romans introduced in the 4th century AD when Constantine gave the church power and instituted the church of a state. Then it didn't matter what the relationship was between the leaders and the people because the people were compelled by the state to observe certain norms. And in fact when you have a church that is the church of the peoples’ culture, then you're automatically in it just by being born into it and so the institutions supplant the organic nature of the church and the result is the people are members of the institution but have no connection to the leadership.

And a strange and interesting culture develops as a result of that disconnect. People will speak, on one hand, of their being members of a particular church, on the other hand, they'll speak disparagingly about the leaders of that church. “Since your pastor was so obviously a reprobate, why did you stay in the church?” And the answer that comes right back from that particular constituency is, “Look at what the priests do in the Roman church or what the bishops do in the Episcopal church, why are you still a member, why do you not quit?” This back and forth just highlights the point: that in an institutional church there is no assumed relationship between the leadership and the people; the people have a relationship to the organization, to the institution, and the institution determines who the leaders are by a particular way.

Jesus said, “Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father who is in heaven,” and on the other hand Paul said to the Corinthians in I Corinthians 4, “I became your father by this gospel.”

So, is Paul just walking a doctrinal tightrope here, daring to defy the Lord’s clear instruction? No, of course not.

There are nine different meanings to the word 'father' in the Scriptures. The most intrusive meaning is the word 'progenitor', it means “the one from whom your origin is derived”. But there are other meanings such as such as one saying, “So and so is the father of this business,” or “he's the father of modern science.” Well, the two things that are being spoken of, the father and the thing he fathered, are conceptually very different entities; one is a human being, the other is an idea or a concept. So, Paul was not the actual biological father of the Corinthians, he was not their progenitor in that sense. So, when Jesus said, “Call no man on the earth your progenitor,” what He meant is that there's no one on the earth from who you derived your innermost being because we have our very being from God; we live in Him, we move in Him, etc.

So, there can be no other relationship more intrusive into our beings than the relationship that we may have with God as our Father. When Paul said, “I became your father,” to the believers in Corinth, he was declaring that he was the father of the faith: they now believed in Jesus Christ through his gospel, as he himself would say it. He not only preached the gospel to them, he modeled what the gospel meant to them. So, everything that they would become through the gospel (namely they would become sons of God, they would become believers in Jesus Christ, and they'd grow from infancy to maturity) Paul would be the indispensable party to that entire process, his stamp on them was undeniable.

Therefore, he had a right to correct them because part of his fathering them in the gospel was to model the gospel, another part was to teach them, by becoming a living example of what he preached, and yet another was to encourage them to follow in the manner in which he lived. In these ways, Paul had the right to correct them when they were wrong or rebuke them when they would go astray or would miss the mark. All these things are among the things that a father would do, even if you didn't give birth to their being.

So, by Paul's example and writings we were supposed to understand that God appoints spiritual fathers in the lives of His children to bring them to maturity, to model the gospel, to instruct them in righteousness, to correct them, to approve of them, to encourage them, etc. These things are done by humans, not from the remote regions of heaven; they're actually done 'hands on' by those whom God appoints and sends. So, Paul said, “I became your father by the gospel.” The gospel necessarily includes fathers of the faith in Christ who are to model the gospel in their lives.

BUT, This is a far cry from the way people pastor today. Today pastoring is a remote undertaking. But in Scripture, pastoring, shepherding, is descriptive of one of the functions of a father; it's one of the things a father does. So, Paul then, is the father of the Corinthians and he has therefore a spiritual family over which he has the right to rule and to exert influence that they might become mature. And the sign of their maturity would become their ability to function alongside other believers under the headship of Jesus Christ.

Well, how exactly does this spiritual fathering work? Paul refers to Timothy as his son in the gospel. Jesus commissioned us to “..go and make disciples of the nations…” Discipling people begins with receiving those whom God gives you. Jesus was the model pastor for all pastors and He only took on only those whom the Father gave to Him. Furthermore, He would give an account to the Father. So, at the end of His ministry, Jesus said, “Father, all those whom You have given to Me I have kept.”

The first element of spiritual fatherhood, the step that you cannot overlook and you cannot ignore, if you do this you're off on the wrong track, is that God assigns who the father is and who the sons are. That's the first, most basic truth that forms the alternative to religious institutions.

In a religious institution, a large net is thrown out. The bait in the net is a certain type of preaching or a certain type of entertainment, maybe a coffee bar or certain music. Largely, those things are meant to appeal to the souls of people. Even declarations of a certain level of piety like “King James only” or “We worship on the true Sabbath” etc. are used. All are designed to appeal to men’s pride or need for significance. Anyway, whoever is caught by that net, is drawn into the institution. They become members by a cognitive agreement.

Now here's the problem with that: when they come to a cognitive disagreement, they will go out as easily as they came in. That is what we are seeing today: the people moving from one congregation to another. A growth in one congregation typically follows a decline in another. Because people are just moving from one group to another. And, because decisions to move from one group to another are based on soulish needs, the largest groups will be those who appeal to the greatest number of souls needs: entertainment, significance, feelings, good music, etc.

The church today, generally speaking, cannot endure the intrusiveness of a spiritual father like Paul. He would say things to the Corinthians like, “Shall I come to you with gentleness or shall I come to you with a whip?” The preacher who says that today, “Shall I come to you with a whip?”... the congregation will find the closest door and exit quickly. That's because the reality is much of the church is not maturing. The current church system, by and large, produces and maintains orphans, fatherless people. And you cannot discipline an orphan because an orphan is someone who already knows the rejection of a father; that's why they're orphans, that's how they became orphans.

But here’s the rub: If you cannot discipline a person, (and just to be clear: to disciple someone is to discipline them and to discipline them is to narrow their scope of acceptable behavior) you can never bring them to maturity.
They may have positions that signify authority but if you put any weight on them, they'll go and find another position where they're more comfortable: coddled in their insecurities rather than corrected and brought to maturity. Any relationship that cannot sustain correction is a relationship in which the persons will remain immature. Now the problem with being immature is that God will not entrust the responsibilities of the kingdom to any immature person.
 
If the body of Christ is not institutional but organic, how does it actually function then? The box of our thinking, with respect to where the church operates, is that it's institutional; men derive their authority from the institution. This is the model that the Romans introduced in the 4th century AD when Constantine gave the church power and instituted the church of a state. Then it didn't matter what the relationship was between the leaders and the people because the people were compelled by the state to observe certain norms. And in fact when you have a church that is the church of the peoples’ culture, then you're automatically in it just by being born into it and so the institutions supplant the organic nature of the church and the result is the people are members of the institution but have no connection to the leadership.

And a strange and interesting culture develops as a result of that disconnect. People will speak, on one hand, of their being members of a particular church, on the other hand, they'll speak disparagingly about the leaders of that church. “Since your pastor was so obviously a reprobate, why did you stay in the church?” And the answer that comes right back from that particular constituency is, “Look at what the priests do in the Roman church or what the bishops do in the Episcopal church, why are you still a member, why do you not quit?” This back and forth just highlights the point: that in an institutional church there is no assumed relationship between the leadership and the people; the people have a relationship to the organization, to the institution, and the institution determines who the leaders are by a particular way.

Jesus said, “Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father who is in heaven,” and on the other hand Paul said to the Corinthians in I Corinthians 4, “I became your father by this gospel.”

So, is Paul just walking a doctrinal tightrope here, daring to defy the Lord’s clear instruction? No, of course not.

There are nine different meanings to the word 'father' in the Scriptures. The most intrusive meaning is the word 'progenitor', it means “the one from whom your origin is derived”. But there are other meanings such as such as one saying, “So and so is the father of this business,” or “he's the father of modern science.” Well, the two things that are being spoken of, the father and the thing he fathered, are conceptually very different entities; one is a human being, the other is an idea or a concept. So, Paul was not the actual biological father of the Corinthians, he was not their progenitor in that sense. So, when Jesus said, “Call no man on the earth your progenitor,” what He meant is that there's no one on the earth from who you derived your innermost being because we have our very being from God; we live in Him, we move in Him, etc.

So, there can be no other relationship more intrusive into our beings than the relationship that we may have with God as our Father. When Paul said, “I became your father,” to the believers in Corinth, he was declaring that he was the father of the faith: they now believed in Jesus Christ through his gospel, as he himself would say it. He not only preached the gospel to them, he modeled what the gospel meant to them. So, everything that they would become through the gospel (namely they would become sons of God, they would become believers in Jesus Christ, and they'd grow from infancy to maturity) Paul would be the indispensable party to that entire process, his stamp on them was undeniable.

Therefore, he had a right to correct them because part of his fathering them in the gospel was to model the gospel, another part was to teach them, by becoming a living example of what he preached, and yet another was to encourage them to follow in the manner in which he lived. In these ways, Paul had the right to correct them when they were wrong or rebuke them when they would go astray or would miss the mark. All these things are among the things that a father would do, even if you didn't give birth to their being.

So, by Paul's example and writings we were supposed to understand that God appoints spiritual fathers in the lives of His children to bring them to maturity, to model the gospel, to instruct them in righteousness, to correct them, to approve of them, to encourage them, etc. These things are done by humans, not from the remote regions of heaven; they're actually done 'hands on' by those whom God appoints and sends. So, Paul said, “I became your father by the gospel.” The gospel necessarily includes fathers of the faith in Christ who are to model the gospel in their lives.

BUT, This is a far cry from the way people pastor today. Today pastoring is a remote undertaking. But in Scripture, pastoring, shepherding, is descriptive of one of the functions of a father; it's one of the things a father does. So, Paul then, is the father of the Corinthians and he has therefore a spiritual family over which he has the right to rule and to exert influence that they might become mature. And the sign of their maturity would become their ability to function alongside other believers under the headship of Jesus Christ.

Well, how exactly does this spiritual fathering work? Paul refers to Timothy as his son in the gospel. Jesus commissioned us to “..go and make disciples of the nations…” Discipling people begins with receiving those whom God gives you. Jesus was the model pastor for all pastors and He only took on only those whom the Father gave to Him. Furthermore, He would give an account to the Father. So, at the end of His ministry, Jesus said, “Father, all those whom You have given to Me I have kept.”

The first element of spiritual fatherhood, the step that you cannot overlook and you cannot ignore, if you do this you're off on the wrong track, is that God assigns who the father is and who the sons are. That's the first, most basic truth that forms the alternative to religious institutions.

In a religious institution, a large net is thrown out. The bait in the net is a certain type of preaching or a certain type of entertainment, maybe a coffee bar or certain music. Largely, those things are meant to appeal to the souls of people. Even declarations of a certain level of piety like “King James only” or “We worship on the true Sabbath” etc. are used. All are designed to appeal to men’s pride or need for significance. Anyway, whoever is caught by that net, is drawn into the institution. They become members by a cognitive agreement.

Now here's the problem with that: when they come to a cognitive disagreement, they will go out as easily as they came in. That is what we are seeing today: the people moving from one congregation to another. A growth in one congregation typically follows a decline in another. Because people are just moving from one group to another. And, because decisions to move from one group to another are based on soulish needs, the largest groups will be those who appeal to the greatest number of souls needs: entertainment, significance, feelings, good music, etc.

The church today, generally speaking, cannot endure the intrusiveness of a spiritual father like Paul. He would say things to the Corinthians like, “Shall I come to you with gentleness or shall I come to you with a whip?” The preacher who says that today, “Shall I come to you with a whip?”... the congregation will find the closest door and exit quickly. That's because the reality is much of the church is not maturing. The current church system, by and large, produces and maintains orphans, fatherless people. And you cannot discipline an orphan because an orphan is someone who already knows the rejection of a father; that's why they're orphans, that's how they became orphans.

But here’s the rub: If you cannot discipline a person, (and just to be clear: to disciple someone is to discipline them and to discipline them is to narrow their scope of acceptable behavior) you can never bring them to maturity.
They may have positions that signify authority but if you put any weight on them, they'll go and find another position where they're more comfortable: coddled in their insecurities rather than corrected and brought to maturity. Any relationship that cannot sustain correction is a relationship in which the persons will remain immature. Now the problem with being immature is that God will not entrust the responsibilities of the kingdom to any immature person.

Discipline requires that the relationship be loving. God disciplines those He loves.
Pastors need to disciple their churches, so the saints will become mature and not need discipline.
 
Discipline requires that the relationship be loving. God disciplines those He loves.
Pastors need to disciple their churches, so the saints will become mature and not need discipline.

Within the typical church framework discipline cannot happen because many pastors don't have a relationship with the people outside of pulpit preaching. For example: pastor who can be moved away from the community by a decision of the denomination's leadership cannot be a shepherd of the people.
 
Within the typical church framework discipline cannot happen because many pastors don't have a relationship with the people outside of pulpit preaching. For example: pastor who can be moved away from the community by a decision of the denomination's leadership cannot be a shepherd of the people.

True, referring to the Methodists?
(My reference was to/experience was with the Baptists.)
 
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According the the measurement standard of Ephesians chapter four, the success of a pastor/teacher can be determined by the degree of Christ-likeness of those he shepherds. By this metric it is difficult to see anyone as being ":successful".

The administration of organizational systems tends to promote stasis rather than a dynamic growth, learning, and maturing.
 
Ezekiel 34:
1 The LORD’s word came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and tell them, even the shepherds, ‘The Lord GOD says: “Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Shouldn’t the shepherds feed the sheep? 3 You eat the fat. You clothe yourself with the wool. You kill the fatlings, but you don’t feed the sheep. 4 You haven’t strengthened the diseased. You haven’t healed that which was sick. You haven’t bound up that which was broken. You haven’t brought back that which was driven away. You haven’t sought that which was lost, but you have ruled over them with force and with rigor. 5 They were scattered, because there was no shepherd. They became food to all the animals of the field, and were scattered. 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill. Yes, my sheep were scattered on all the surface of the earth. There was no one who searched or sought.”

7 “ ‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the LORD’s word: 8 “As I live,” says the Lord GOD, “surely because my sheep became a prey, and my sheep became food to all the animals of the field, because there was no shepherd, and my shepherds didn’t search for my sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves, and didn’t feed my sheep, 9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the LORD’s word!” 10 The Lord GOD says: “Behold, I am against the shepherds. I will require my sheep at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the sheep. The shepherds won’t feed themselves any more. I will deliver my sheep from their mouth, that they may not be food for them.”

11 “ ‘For the Lord GOD says: “Behold, I myself, even I, will search for my sheep, and will seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered abroad, so I will seek out my sheep. I will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them into their own land. I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the watercourses, and in all the inhabited places of the country. 14 I will feed them with good pasture, and their fold will be on the mountains of the height of Israel. There they will lie down in a good fold. They will feed on rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I myself will be the shepherd of my sheep, and I will cause them to lie down,” says the Lord GOD. 16 “I will seek that which was lost, and will bring back that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong. I will feed them in justice.” ’

17 “As for you, O my flock, the Lord GOD says: ‘Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, the rams and the male goats. 18 Does it seem a small thing to you to have fed on the good pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pasture? And to have drunk of the clear waters, but must you foul the residue with your feet? 19 As for my sheep, they eat that which you have trodden with your feet, and they drink that which you have fouled with your feet.’

20 “Therefore the Lord GOD says to them: ‘Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you thrust with side and with shoulder, and push all the diseased with your horns, until you have scattered them abroad, 22 therefore I will save my flock, and they will no more be a prey. I will judge between sheep and sheep. 23 I will set up one shepherd over them, and he will feed them, even my servant David. He will feed them, and he will be their shepherd. 24 I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David prince among them. I, the LORD, have spoken it.

25 “ ‘I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause evil animals to cease out of the land. They will dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places around my hill a blessing. I will cause the shower to come down in its season. There will be showers of blessing. 27 The tree of the field will yield its fruit, and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure in their land. Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I have broken the bars of their yoke, and have delivered them out of the hand of those who made slaves of them. 28 They will no more be a prey to the nations, neither will the animals of the earth devour them; but they will dwell securely, and no one will make them afraid. 29 I will raise up to them a plantation for renown, and they will no more be consumed with famine in the land, and not bear the shame of the nations any more. 30 They will know that I, the LORD, their God am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord GOD. 31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are men, and I am your God,’ says the Lord GOD.”
 
So, when Jesus said, “Call no man on the earth your progenitor,” what He meant is that there's no one on the earth from who you derived your innermost being because we have our very being from God; we live in Him, we move in Him, etc.

Nope....this is wrong.

Contrary to popular belief....
This is about "housekeeping " for Jesus....

Telmademe would follow a Rabbi until one day the Rabbi would turn around to face the Telmademe and tell him "Go make disciples" meaning the disciple was now a Rabbi in his own right. But the newly crowned Rabbi was of the low order (of three) and his reputation was built upon the reputation of the rabbi he learned from.

Jesus immediately claimed to be a schmeekah rabbi....the highest order of Rabbi. The Temple guards refused to arrest Jesus and when interrogated by the Pharisees their answer is the BIG HUGE CLUE. "He spoke as one having authority" this means Jesus was explaining the Law/Torah. Now a Temple guard was NEVER going to arrest a Schmeekah rabbi....he preferred life to death. He would rely heavily upon orders to even ASK very politely a low order rabbi to remain. The issues with arresting Elijah firmly in his mind as well as the ire of the people for even suggesting that a rabbi was under arrest.

Now....Rabbi were not exactly the most "above reproach" type people....
They regularly abused their position and authority to appropriate food, clothing, lodgings, and etc....
AND
They were not above accepting other Rabbi's disciples/Telmademe. (I can explain further)

There were 3 levels of education system in Israel.
Bethgashepher. (bet-gas-hep-her)
This was the first....a student (under a Levite priest...usually the young or extremely old ones) would teach the children reading, writing, arithmetic and history using the Torah. Also the children would completely memorize the Torah. School was not compulsory but every self respecting Jew sent their kids to school. Even the girls went....BUT people dropped out after a while to help provide an income or learn how to be a proper wife for their fiance....and some kids just dont do well with scholastic efforts.

Bethmidrash
(bet-mid-ras-h)
This is where the very top and best graduates would go. They would work on memorizing the rest of the Tenakh (Old Testament) and discuss the Torah and the meaning of the prophesies and law....with other students....which often became heated.

The best of the best students of Bethmidrash would have an opportunity if a Rabbi would come around....the student could ask the rabbi if he could follow him. The rabbi would then watch the student and ask about the student's family....to see how good a student was....his demeanor and etc. The better a student was and the higher his family's status (wealth) the better and higher order of rabbi the student could approach to ask.

So....
Some rabbi would not accept a Telmademe unless he had first been a disciple of another rabbi first....and would actively recruit (in a backhanded fashion) the Telmademe of other rabbi. Paul actually studied under two....but he does mention by name the highest reputation rabbi.

Jesus was not about any status games....and Jesus asked his disciples to follow him....an unheard of practice. (You didnt choose me, I asked you)
And Jesus's teachings were all in poetry....a level of sophistication and brilliance that made it seem like those who dropped out from bethgashepher would never have a chance of following.

So....Jesus was telling the apostles they would never follow another rabbi because they also would eventually graduate too....and they did....the Great Commission was all about that right there.
 
True, referring to the Methodists?
(My reference was to/experience was with the Baptists.)

Let's discuss this....

Pastors are people....no different than you or me.....well, harrassed to no end more. But we usually pay the good ones well as compensation for the long hours of harrassment.

Where pastors usually fall short...is POSITIVE rewards for positive behavior....now everyone likes to react to bad behavior because they believe they have to....
But the exact same imperative follows good behavior....but usually isn't done unless it involves money. Something tangible....
Its easier....
 
Let's discuss this....

Pastors are people....no different than you or me.....well, harrassed to no end more. But we usually pay the good ones well as compensation for the long hours of harrassment.

Where pastors usually fall short...is POSITIVE rewards for positive behavior....now everyone likes to react to bad behavior because they believe they have to....
But the exact same imperative follows good behavior....but usually isn't done unless it involves money. Something tangible....
Its easier....

Okay, but what do you want to discuss? What has been your experience with pastors?
I have sat in the pew and preached to the pew-sitters.
I have heard some good preaching and done some bad preaching.
 
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Okay, but what do you want to discuss? What has been your experience with pastors?
I have sat in the pew and preached to the pew-sitters.
I have heard some good preaching and done some bad preaching.
Relationships....
Let's start there.
 
Nope....this is wrong.

Contrary to popular belief....
This is about "housekeeping " for Jesus....

Telmademe would follow a Rabbi until one day the Rabbi would turn around to face the Telmademe and tell him "Go make disciples" meaning the disciple was now a Rabbi in his own right. But the newly crowned Rabbi was of the low order (of three) and his reputation was built upon the reputation of the rabbi he learned from.

Jesus immediately claimed to be a schmeekah rabbi....the highest order of Rabbi. The Temple guards refused to arrest Jesus and when interrogated by the Pharisees their answer is the BIG HUGE CLUE. "He spoke as one having authority" this means Jesus was explaining the Law/Torah. Now a Temple guard was NEVER going to arrest a Schmeekah rabbi....he preferred life to death. He would rely heavily upon orders to even ASK very politely a low order rabbi to remain. The issues with arresting Elijah firmly in his mind as well as the ire of the people for even suggesting that a rabbi was under arrest.

Now....Rabbi were not exactly the most "above reproach" type people....
They regularly abused their position and authority to appropriate food, clothing, lodgings, and etc....
AND
They were not above accepting other Rabbi's disciples/Telmademe. (I can explain further)

There were 3 levels of education system in Israel.
Bethgashepher. (bet-gas-hep-her)
This was the first....a student (under a Levite priest...usually the young or extremely old ones) would teach the children reading, writing, arithmetic and history using the Torah. Also the children would completely memorize the Torah. School was not compulsory but every self respecting Jew sent their kids to school. Even the girls went....BUT people dropped out after a while to help provide an income or learn how to be a proper wife for their fiance....and some kids just dont do well with scholastic efforts.

Bethmidrash
(bet-mid-ras-h)
This is where the very top and best graduates would go. They would work on memorizing the rest of the Tenakh (Old Testament) and discuss the Torah and the meaning of the prophesies and law....with other students....which often became heated.

The best of the best students of Bethmidrash would have an opportunity if a Rabbi would come around....the student could ask the rabbi if he could follow him. The rabbi would then watch the student and ask about the student's family....to see how good a student was....his demeanor and etc. The better a student was and the higher his family's status (wealth) the better and higher order of rabbi the student could approach to ask.

So....
Some rabbi would not accept a Telmademe unless he had first been a disciple of another rabbi first....and would actively recruit (in a backhanded fashion) the Telmademe of other rabbi. Paul actually studied under two....but he does mention by name the highest reputation rabbi.

Jesus was not about any status games....and Jesus asked his disciples to follow him....an unheard of practice. (You didnt choose me, I asked you)
And Jesus's teachings were all in poetry....a level of sophistication and brilliance that made it seem like those who dropped out from bethgashepher would never have a chance of following.

So....Jesus was telling the apostles they would never follow another rabbi because they also would eventually graduate too....and they did....the Great Commission was all about that right there.

I think you're framing it from the wrong perspective. Perhaps you are influenced by Jewish traditions?

Remember, Jesus represented the priestly order of Melchizedek not the order of Levi from where you derive your examples. In the order of Melchizedek the sons of God were the most mature males within the family who followed God. Melchizedek in the Old Testament was likely Shem from the line of Noah. It was expected that a patriarch of each family would, in representation, present God to the family.

Point: reconciliation to God restores a priesthood that derives its lineage from within all natural families.

This promise was first spoken to the Israelites at Sinai:

"And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

But it did not vest in a people until reconciliation to God was possible in Christ. Here, Peter declares this to the Gentile believers:

"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light..."

This is the promise given at Sinai that is now possible in Christ.

Lastly, in the line of Shem, the Semitic people derived their lineage: from Abraham, David, Elam, etc. When Jesus said "Call no man on earth your father" He finished the sentence with "..for one is your Father, which is in heaven." This goes right back to the origin of the man being derived from God. Certainly this is only possible by returning people to the standard of being "sons of God".

Jesus was proclaiming that a new way for man had come, not continuing in the pattern set forth by the law of Sinai (which was added because of transgressions) and the Levitical priesthood but by reconciliation through Him to the divine standard of the pattern Son of God.

Paul would later write:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear..."

What Spirit did we receive?
He continues...

"..but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.

This goes full circle back to Jesus's instruction: "Do not call any man on earth your father, for one is your father Who is in heaven."

When all are sons of God, the priesthood is contained in the natural family.
 
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I think you're framing it from the wrong perspective. Perhaps you are influenced by Jewish traditions?
Of COURSE I'm using Jewish traditions of that specific time period....it's perfectly relevant to what and why Jesus said what he said

That the whole of "call no one else "rabbi". Rabbi is the Hebrew word for father. It's formal versus the more informal "Abba" or our equivalent to "daddy" or "dad" . And Jesus is reminding the Apostles....He, Himself is God.

You did NOT call a Rabbi "daddy". (Disrespectful)

But adopted sons are allowed the informal "daddy" for their adopted father....because they are household members.
 
Of COURSE I'm using Jewish traditions of that specific time period....it's perfectly relevant to what and why Jesus said what he said
At the time, their tradition was form by the statutes given at Sinai. But Jesus represented a priesthood that was established centuries before Sinai. My point is He wasn’t perfecting a system that was about to be defunct. He was restoring the priesthood of the sons of God.
 
Fact.. we always need someone over us or we can be deceived. And it is happening all over the world today. We are trying to catch butterflies and never catch them. Very few sitting on the edge of the light and bringing those in darkness the light and that small square each time someone comes into the light.. it gets bigger. Those believers chasing butterflies were shown to this preacher (vision) as Children...that's what we are to Him.

We forget those over us GOD put them there.. we talk about obeying Christ well then the ones He puts over us we best listen not go round finding fault.. He choose them to be over us for a reason. Some obey some do not
 
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At the time, their tradition was form by the statutes given at Sinai. But Jesus represented a priesthood that was established centuries before Sinai. My point is He wasn’t perfecting a system that was about to be defunct. He was restoring the priesthood of the sons of God.
Huh?
Of course He knew He was about to make the existing system/covenant obsolete....
This was NOT about the Levite priesthood but the Rabbi/Patriarchy and educational system that was about to change drastically.
And it did change along with the covenant.

The Rabbinical patriarchy was dependent upon the Old Covenant Caste-based lifestyle. Because without the Levites making accurate scrolls of scriptures....things would get bad in a hurry. (And they did....Jerome though made a standardized copy of both Old And New Testament scriptures.)

But NOTHING you have said addresses any point I've made about Jesus telling his Apostles that they will not be able to get a different Rabbi to follow and be a disciple of.
 
But NOTHING you have said addresses any point I've made about Jesus telling his Apostles that they will not be able to get a different Rabbi to follow and be a disciple of.
Right. I just don't see it the way you do.

You failed to acknowledge that He was addressing His disciples and the crowds:

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying..."
It was instruction for the people, not just His apostles and disciples. And this wasn't a missive only on their religious system: He was addressing their culture. Like here where He addresses their heritage:

"..do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren."
Again, we know He was restoring the priesthood of Melchizedek. Unlike the Mosaic priesthood whereby only the Levites could be priests, the order of Melchizedek creates priests from all who have the Spirit of God in them.

Traditionally, the Jews don't give much thought considering Melchizedek. To those in Christ, however, his administration, as the pattern for the priesthood in Christ, is central to our culture. In the kingdom culture there is no separation of religions adherence and day-to-day life; no priesthood and laity. In the kingdom of God and in the order of Melchizedek all are royal priests: "priests" because their ministry is "Christ in them, the hope of glory" and "royal" because everyone derives their nature from the King of kings, God, their Father.

"Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."
 
I think you're framing it from the wrong perspective. Perhaps you are influenced by Jewish traditions?

Remember, Jesus represented the priestly order of Melchizedek not the order of Levi from where you derive your examples. In the order of Melchizedek the sons of God were the most mature males within the family who followed God. Melchizedek in the Old Testament was likely Shem from the line of Noah. It was expected that a patriarch of each family would, in representation, present God to the family.

Point: reconciliation to God restores a priesthood that derives its lineage from within all natural families.

This promise was first spoken to the Israelites at Sinai:

"And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

But it did not vest in a people until reconciliation to God was possible in Christ. Here, Peter declares this to the Gentile believers:

"But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light..."

This is the promise given at Sinai that is now possible in Christ.

Lastly, in the line of Shem, the Semitic people derived their lineage: from Abraham, David, Elam, etc. When Jesus said "Call no man on earth your father" He finished the sentence with "..for one is your Father, which is in heaven." This goes right back to the origin of the man being derived from God. Certainly this is only possible by returning people to the standard of being "sons of God".

Jesus was proclaiming that a new way for man had come, not continuing in the pattern set forth by the law of Sinai (which was added because of transgressions) and the Levitical priesthood but by reconciliation through Him to the divine standard of the pattern Son of God.

Paul would later write:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear..."

What Spirit did we receive?
He continues...

"..but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.

This goes full circle back to Jesus's instruction: "Do not call any man on earth your father, for one is your father Who is in heaven."

When all are sons of God, the priesthood is contained in the natural family.
Under law Jesus couldn't be High priest .His line was King By Jesus using his own blood Jesus changed The law it is called the order of machesideck
 
Only the high priest could take the sacrifice blood to The Holy Of Holies.
If. A King acted link a high priest, God will punish Him

The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."