THE NEW JERUSALEM

[zone]

Good Evening, To answer some questions some asked me. I am a Christian Zionist. I believe we should pray for the peace of Jerusalem and also know that salvation is of the Jews and we were grafted in with the Apple of God's eye and that Jesus changed my life, world and I with His help will serve and follow him with all my heart,soul , mind , body and I will not be silent to those who want to destroy Israel, America or any body of Christ.

I am not Jewish but I was raised to honor God and His Son and support Israel because the word tells me to do so. I want His blessing in my life and my children's and in yours as well.

Replacement Theology is where some have wrongly removed Israel and replaced it with the Church in the Bible concerning Prophecy. Most of my reference comes from the Dakes Ref. Bible and Prayer for discernment from the Holy Spirit

Scuba:
since according to your theology, Christ's redeemed (jew & gentile) have not "replaced" national israel, how many covenants are currently in place?

where will Christ's Church go when national israel is redeemed? and how will they be redeemed outside Christ's Church?

could you show me where Scripture tells us in the NT to support national israel?

what does the Dake's Bible read in Genesis 12? does it say God will bless those who bless the jews and curse those who curse the jews?

 

[VW]

VW, 1Corinthians 15:46 "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." Shalom

We receive the Spirit, and are saved, and He is the promise, the seal, that we will receive the physical redemption of our bodies when we see Him.

 

[Avinu]

do all jews return to israel and then Jesus returns?

Ez. ch. 36-39 describe clearly the restoration of Israel in the end days, some now the rest after Yeshua returns.

do all jews return to israel and then Jesus returns?

Yeshua returns proclaims His kingdom, Ez. temple is built where He'll rule and reign for 1000 yrs.

what is the role of the redeemed israelites in relation to the "millennium"? where are the gentile believers then?

Ez. 39:21-29, They will serve Yeshua along with the nations that continue in the millenium, Zech. 14. Any believers, (not just gentile ones) who were believers before Yeshua's return will rule and reign with Him in there new forms in the millenial reign.

and who is populating the millennium, and for what purpose? is their sin or evil then? any rebellion? death, sorrow, pain?

Zech. 14

how many resurrections are there, and when are they?

1Thess. 4:16-17, first resurrection, second resurrection are the sinners, at the end of millenial reign. Rev. 20:4-6,11-15

was satan restrained at the First Advent?

satan is not restrained till second coming, Rev. 20:1-3

did Jesus fulfill Daniel 9?

That's up for debate, there are good arguements on both sides. I for one believe Daniel 9:27 is not fulfilled yet.

Shalom

 

[Avinu]

We receive the Spirit, and are saved, and He is the promise, the seal, that we will receive the physical redemption of our bodies when we see Him.

VW, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Shalom

 

[VW]

VW, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Shalom

Yes, it does. You said that always the physical comes first, and then the spiritual. I was joined to my wife from the first time I saw her, because God gave her to me as my wife. I knew, in my spirit that she was my wife. I then waited over 2 years for the spiritual fact to become real in the physical.

I have belonged to Jesus for over 50 years now. He claimed me when I was 8 years old, when the Spirit called me with such power that I could not stay seated at the call to salvation. I am still waiting for the promise of the physical, for when I see Him with these eyes.

I believe that it is a mistake to make blanket statements about scripture, such as, "the physical comes first, and then the spiritual."

Not to argue, but I think that this can cause trouble in seeing what God means with some things.

In Christ, and His love,
vic

 

[VW]

I am not saying that the physical always comes last either. I don't believe that either way can be used as a rule.

 

[55scuba]

Zone, your being rather rude, so please stop. Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, So if He came from that Tribe and He also said in
John 4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.


Isaiah 12:2Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.
I have 527 other verses from the Bible let me know if you need them as well.

Who wants to distroy Israel ? Well any Quran beliving Islamic Terrisist. also see Rev 12 : 1-6 Revelation 12:1
1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

Please see Isaiah 31: 4-9
4For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, [he] will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
5As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver [it; and] passing over he will preserve it.
6Turn ye unto [him from] whom the children of Israel have deeply revolted.
7For in that day every man shall cast away his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which your own hands have made unto you [for] a sin.
8Then shall the Assyrian fall with the sword, not of a mighty man; and the sword, not of a mean man, shall devour him: but he shall flee from the sword, and his young men shall be discomfited.
9And he shall pass over to his strong hold for fear, and his princes shall be afraid of the ensign, saith the LORD, whose fire [is] in Zion, and his furnace in Jerusalem.

With the Antichrist being called the "Assyrian" I guess it will be all who follow the Antichrist. The 10 Islamic Kingdom from Dan 2: 41-43

 

[Avinu]

Well, I definitely didn't expect this much response on this thread, but I appreciate everyones imput. Please continue if you wish, I will as well. Shalom

 

[Ramon]

My friends. We know that before the world was the Spirit. And that the Spirit was that breathe of Life, whereas man became a living soul by the Spirit.

We know that God is Spirit, and thus we worship him this way, and in Truth. And we know that Jesus Christ, being from the bosom of the Father indeed was fully Spirit, as is his true identity, but was wrapped in carnal flesh. Can we now not understand this? Shouldn't it be simple?

It was written that this body is a spiritual body, a building of Christ. But who is a part of the body? Didn't the Lord say that she will be, ''bone of his bone, and flesh of his flesh? And who is she? The Church, his Bride, which is a spiritual building, contained in fleshy bodies, until those are put off and until the glorified bodies are filled. Will not the Lord our God be the Light of that nation?

This should be simple, but lets not be divided over it. Our hope is not in doctrines or presuppositions but of the faith of Jesus Christ. May Jesus bless you.

 

[Devolution]

Hi 55scuba, see what you think....

John 4:22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.

God was going to totally destroy the people of Israel at the very start after they made that image near that mount. Moses pleaded on their behalf. God calls Israel Loruhamah even now which means NOT PITIED (Hosea 1:9). But he promises a DAY where He will once again choose Israel. Until then...He calls His people by another name. It is this other people who will be resurrected into spirit first. Provoking the Jews to jealousy. For they provoked God to jealousy. The first (Jews) will be last (resurrected) and the last (Gentiles) will be first (resurrected).

Matthew 21:43> Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Right now, any man that follows Christ is considered Israel. That is, a spiritual Jew. That means believing Jews and Gentiles alike are One people in His eyes. And in ONE day Spiritual Zion will give birth to that nation (Isaiah 66:7-9) at His 2nd coming. The physical Zion too will be reborn and also gathered to learn in Jerusalem where Jesus will reign from. To receive that Spirit they never had access to...the Holy Spirit which is used to raise us (Romans 8:11).

For, God made promises to the Jews of old. Every remnant He preserved from every generation before Christ. These good figs will be raised in the flesh (Ezekiel 37:1-14) and taught in Jerusalem by the resurrected saints in the Name of the Lord. This way, Gods promises are kept, and His mercy on us is extended to His mercy of them He once was going to destroy as a PEOPLE and start again (Exodus 32:8-12).

Isaiah 12:2Behold, God [is] my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH [is] my strength and [my] song; he also is become my salvation.
I have 527 other verses from the Bible let me know if you need them as well.

Who wants to distroy Israel ? Well any Quran beliving Islamic Terrisist. also see Rev 12 : 1-6 Revelation 12:1

The 10 horned beast (4th beast) has the brass nails (Greek lineage) and iron teeth (Roman lineage) and THEIR precepts (democracy) . No Islamic nation holds these principles found beholden by the king of the north. Islamics want a worldwide Islamic state. Imagine Islamics attacking Islamics? But the king of the north comes furiously against the king of the south (muslims), and then not long after, the king of the east (muslims) and further north (prob Russia) will fight against him (king of north) too. So we see east is muslim, also...South, east & deep north all against this iron and brass based empire king of the north. It can't be Islamic.
Remember God is going to cause Israel's lovers to turn against her? And who are her lovers (allies)? Europe, USA etc. The "west". But who is even now slowly turning against Israel? Europe turning earlier than USA..........Israel's allies are turning away from her.

With the Antichrist being called the "Assyrian" I guess it will be all who follow the Antichrist. The 10 Islamic Kingdom from Dan 2: 41-43

I agree that the Assyrian is the false prophet. But it doesn't mean he is muslim because of his title. Remember when Satan was boasting through the king of Assyria about the idols etc in Isaiah.
King of Tyrus never meant that that was Satans nationality.
King of Babylon doesn't mean Satan is Babylonian either. And their are two cases where the false prophet gets called king of Babylon too.
So is he Assyrian or Babylonian? I say neither. Those titles are descriptive and hold meaning to God concerning the world.
I say he will be a mix of Jewish/European, OR Jewish raised/living in Europe.
He must have that Jewish link for the Jews will accept him too. They will never receive a prophet without that Jewish bloodline, and they are still waiting for their Messiah remember?
Can you imagine Jews accepting a muslim messiah?
Remember, the HOLY CITY will be trampled by the Gentiles for 42 months....his 2nd 3 1/2 rule FROM Isreal....the occupation from the false prophet. Then soon after WW3 comes, the 200 million army war. THEN Christ will come.

That's my understanding for what it's worth.

 

[wakeup]

The bride of Christ is NOT ...
1. Israel
2. Part or whole N.T. Church
3. The 144,000 Jews
4. the Tribulation Saints
5. Not any single person or group
6. Nor any denomination or groups of denominations

What is the BRIDE of Christ ?

1. Its the Great City Jerusalem see vs 2, 9-10
2. All redeemed will live in the city. See Heb 11: 10-16
3. The Earthly Church Jn 14: 1-3 ; Heb 13: 14
4. Every Christian is promised the city Rev 3: 12 ; Jn 14: 1-3 ; Heb 12: 23
5. The 144,000 Jews will be there. Rev 7: 1-8 ; 12: 5 ; 14: 1-5.
6. The Tribulation saints will be there. Rev 6: 9-11; 7: 9-17; 15: 2-4; 20 : 4-6.

Marriage of Christ Completed when the betrothed parties were legally in the position of a married couple and unfaithfulness in this period was adultery. Dt 22: 23; Mt 1: 19

The Marriage supper of the lamb in Rev 19 is simply the concluding ceremony, not the marriage contract entered into at conversion.

yes, Jesus in us, and we in Jesus, and all in God. We become one, so this word bride and groom is symbolic: HUSBAND AND WIFE THEY BECOME ONE FLESH.

 

[wakeup]

Also we are grafted in with the Jews and we are told NOT to BOAST as a Warning to the Gentiles in Romans 11 : 17-24
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert gruffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?

I only added this part into the conversation to stop the ignorance of Replacement Theology

And the natural branches will be grafted back on when the jews will be brought back during the 1000yrs. They will be taught the scriptures.

 

[wakeup]

AnandaHya, Scuba put it well, these are two completely different things spoken of. They don't even back each other up in anyway to confirm your claim. Shalom

I like that ,The new jerusalem is a city consisting of all the holy people, which will have a spirit body in near future. each one of a different brightness,each one a certain gem stone.

 

[wakeup]

REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY?
please explain what that means.

You can give it any name you like,but the truth is the jews will be grafted back to the tree; and this will happen in the 1000yr reign when they will be brought back,and taught the gospels.

 

[wakeup]

Neither, it was spiritual. Just as I am joined to my wife in this life, it is more than physical, it is more than symbolic, it is a joining of two people that they become one.

We are joined to Jesus. We are joined to Him in His death, in His burial, in His resurrection, in His life, in His love, in His being the Son of God. We are one with Him.

Marriage.

i understand but the topic is NEW JERUSALEM COMING DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
this is future,after the 1000 yrs. This city is not yet. but it is being built.

 

[VW]

Yes it is being built right now, out of us. And you are correct that it comes down out of heaven, after the heavens and the earth are recreated new.

It is difficult for some to see that we will not be so tied to our bodies then as we are now. In fact, it is difficult for us all to know just what we will be like then, just as John wrote that it does not as yet appear what we shall be, just that we know that when He appears, we will become just as He is.

I am a strong believer in what Paul wrote, that no imagination could conceive of the glories and riches that God has prepared for those who are his, who await His appearing. And I am distressed that waiting for Jesus to appear has fallen into such disfavor in certain circles.

In Christ

 

[AnandaHya]

Yes it is being built right now, out of us. And you are correct that it comes down out of heaven, after the heavens and the earth are recreated new.

It is difficult for some to see that we will not be so tied to our bodies then as we are now. In fact, it is difficult for us all to know just what we will be like then, just as John wrote that it does not as yet appear what we shall be, just that we know that when He appears, we will become just as He is.

I am a strong believer in what Paul wrote, that no imagination could conceive of the glories and riches that God has prepared for those who are his, who await His appearing. And I am distressed that waiting for Jesus to appear has fallen into such disfavor in certain circles.

In Christ

Thanks for the reminder VW. We can not imagine or conceive the greatness of the Lord. God is in control and we only understand as much as He in His grace has allowed us to understand. I was going to ask what people thought the stones of New Jereulesam were created from, but after reading your post VW I've decided I'll await God's answer instead.

Since we can not change one hair on our head, why worry about things we can not change but instead focus on the task at hand that God has entrusted to our care.

May God's peace find a dwelling place in the hearts of His people. Blessed is the One who comes in the Name of the Lord!

Romans 9:22-24 (New King James Version)

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[VW]

Thanks for the reminder VW. We can not imagine or conceive the greatness of the Lord. God is in control and we only understand as much as He in His grace has allowed us to understand. I was going to ask what people thought the stones of New Jereulesam were created from, but after reading your post VW I've decided I'll await God's answer instead.

Since we can not change one hair on our head, why worry about things we can not change but instead focus on the task at hand that God has entrusted to our care.

May God's peace find a dwelling place in the hearts of His people. Blessed is the One who comes in the Name of the Lord!

Romans 9:22-24 (New King James Version)

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

We are collectively, being built up into a habitation for God. The stones are also us, the things which God has built and is building in us, Love, Faith, Hope, Peace, Steadfastness, Grace, and so much more.

You are right, we will just have to wait and see how these things become a part of this new habitation of our God.

In Christ