The Pope had no answer...do you?

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2 Corinthians 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Lost parents can't bless their children, and God won't rip their will from those parents. Satan rules most families on earth through deception, through false religions, by keeping most people ignorant of what they need to live by rather than extracting one more bowl of rice from a field today. The world has accepted the curse of sweat of the brow on Adam, remaining oblivious to the promises of God in Christ.

Anyone on earht that is fed up with lack should consider Matthew 11:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Drop the focus on the body, world, and take up the fight to embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ at least for the sake of your children. If you continue to strive for another bowl of food while serving idols, turn from that to God in Christ. He knows your needs, and will supply them if you seek the kingdom of Heaven first. If you can read this, you know already. Go past "knowing" only. Live Jesus and spread the good news. Blessings follow.

Some folks on earth are branded "Catholic", while only knowing poverty all their lives, while the Vatican swims in wealth. Some admire Buddha, while the temples bristle with gold plated walls, really probably everything in there.

Break out of world religion, go to Jesus. He is there ready to help you and your children. How else will your children, on their own, find what they need?
 
ColinCat said:
Hmm I don't know about the free will thing. I only have a certain amount of it. Dictated by certain parameters. I can't use my free will to jump 100ft. Nor can I use my free will to run 100 mile per hour. My body doesn't allow for such activities.

Circumstances allow me to do things. I can if I want, exercise my free will to watch A Clockwork Orange on DVD tonight, but if Stanley Kubrick never made the film then the option wouldn't be there to see it.

I have free will to an extent, although circumstances limit the choices.
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ok, free will to some extent... I agree with that... so, if only the physical world exists, where does our free will come from? you may be interested in the first page or two of this article:

How Physics and Neuroscience Dictate Your "Free" Will - Scientific American
 
nogard said:
That's a good point. I mean, what is the extent of free will? If I murdered a man, would I not also be murdering the millions of free will choices that he would have made in life had I not murdered him, which in turn would have created millions of other free will choices for those who would have associated with the man. We perform actions all the time that limits or constricts other people's abilities to choose. And as ColinCat said, our own bodies limit what we can do with our free will. Our bodies, mind, and environment all give us limitations to our ability to exercise our free will. Yet none of this is considered a violation of free will. I can't do super large sums in my head. I can't see through things. I can't move things with my mind. God could have allowed me to, but he chose not to give me that ability. Yet that is not a violation of free will. So what if God didn't give us the ability to be so sinful? What if he didn't give us our ability to hate? Would that be a violation of free will? If yes, why?

basically, free will is our ability to choose between the options given us within the capacity we are able to. Removing a sinful nature from us would not violate that. It would be just one of the many limitations to our abilities.
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I like this approach to free will, which I think comes from Descartes... free will means that under identical circumstances, you could have acted differently.
 
nogard said:
As Christians we are taught that our joy is found in Christ and our hope in the life to come. If there is no life to come, if this is all there is, then this life is where our hope and joy is found. Our family, our friends. Making the most of this one shot we get on earth.

In a way, an atheist and a Christian believe the same thing in that regard. We only get one life to live on this earth, so let's make the most of it. Live like your life means something, because even if it doesn't mean something to anyone else, it still means something to you. I believe we can still have a purpose, even if we are the ones creating it. And I still find joy in things I found joy in before.

I mean look, the idea of not living forever in heaven kind of stinks, but it offsets the idea of people burning in hell forever (I know not every Christian believes that last part but just saying).

But I would be interested Dan in your thoughts on post #150 about what free will actually means.
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so, atheism isn't, at it's roots, a worldview... rather a negation of worldviews... it doesn't say what a person is, only what they aren't. Many atheists are humanists, which of course is a positive term...

So, (and this may just be my reading of it), it sounds to me like there's a tone of resignation in your post here. I'm not really hearing, "I'm really excited about my new belief system."
 
I once read a story from a woman who was a pastor, and became an atheist... she found that she could 'clear a room' real fast if she said she was an atheist, no one wanted to talk to her... but if she said she was a humanist, that was just fine, people would accept her.
 
The Pope couldn't give an answer to the child because he is the main thief. Look at the history of Rome, its Popes, and Jesuits. How they lied about forgiving humanity and even their dead loved ones (when God plain says, the dead knows not anything) in the place of God to extract money from the poor. This is what angered Martin Luther and caused him to nail the 95 theses to the church door so all could read and be equipped to stand against these evil lures. How can a rosary bead feed a child? Some one should have challenged him concerning the history of the Catholic church but unfortunately these people have been duped by a demon. God says, in vain they teach the traditions of man as doctrine. (Matthew 15:9). God says, "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food. And one of you say unto them depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? (James 2:15, 16).
 
Dan_473 said:
I once read a story from a woman who was a pastor, and became an atheist... she found that she could 'clear a room' real fast if she said she was an atheist, no one wanted to talk to her... but if she said she was a humanist, that was just fine, people would accept her.
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That's interesting, because where I live if someone mentions they believe in god.. That also seems to clear the room.
 
Dan_473 said:
so, atheism isn't, at it's roots, a worldview... rather a negation of worldviews... it doesn't say what a person is, only what they aren't. Many atheists are humanists, which of course is a positive term...

So, (and this may just be my reading of it), it sounds to me like there's a tone of resignation in your post here. I'm not really hearing, "I'm really excited about my new belief system."
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You are right, atheism isn't itself a worldview, but there are worldviews with atheism as its belief system. Secular Humanism, as you mentioned, is one. Marxism/Leninism is another. It's true that I can't say I'm excited about my new belief system, but that hasn't transferred over into my excitement for life and living. Hardcore Christian wrap their entire life around their faith, from the music they listen to, to the friends they have, the activities they partake in, etc. But then you have "Christians" who only go to church on holidays, barely ever pray or meditate on God's word, don't really think about their faith too much. Both people consider themselves Christians, just one person is hardcore about their faith and the other isn't. This doesn't prevent either person from having a happy, fulfilling life. Not everyone needs to be so devoted to their belief system to find joy.
 
ColinCat said:
It doesn't offend anyone around here. They just don't pay lip service to that sort of stuff.
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yeah offend is not always the case, but people will dislike someone, I think its something deep inside, you know, like an anger/self-defense mechanism. Of course every person is different, but in my experience people want to act like your ignorant or uninformed, but I have met very few people that studied deep into what I believe (not common church belief) and say there is nothing there, so the next step is either start to think its a possibility or become more hardened against it, even thouh possible proof is there.... That is a joke IMO, its like self projecting on to another for belief or lack of belief (yeah i can go both ways) but to the person who is truly rooted, this is not even an issue. JMO from my experience and life...
 
Hizikyah said:
yeah offend is not always the case, but people will dislike someone, I think its something deep inside, you know, like an anger/self-defense mechanism. Of course every person is different, but in my experience people want to act like your ignorant or uninformed, but I have met very few people that studied deep into what I believe (not common church belief) and say there is nothing there, so the next step is either start to think its a possibility or become more hardened against it, even thouh possible proof is there.... That is a joke IMO, its like self projecting on to another for belief or lack of belief (yeah i can go both ways) but to the person who is truly rooted, this is not even an issue. JMO from my experience and life...
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I don't think its anything deep rooted. If someone said they believed that fairies were living in their bathroom and said they spoke to them daily then they would de deemed as deluded. However if someone says they speak to a god daily then they are just a christian. I don't see why one should be given special status over the other. Its not deep rooted anger or self defence. Its just dismissal of the absurd. That's pretty much how Everyone I know regards religion.
 
ColinCat said:
I don't think its anything deep rooted. If someone said they believed that fairies were living in their bathroom and said they spoke to them daily then they would de deemed as deluded. However if someone says they speak to a god daily then they are just a christian. I don't see why one should be given special status over the other. Its not deep rooted anger or self defence.
Its just dismissal of the absurd.
That's pretty much how Everyone I know regards religion.
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And that's pretty much in keeping with the Judeo-Christian Scriptures.
You are confirming their truth.

"by the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know him." (1Co 1:21)

He is known only through what the world calls foolishness; i.e., the gospel. (1Co 1:22).

He "overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense." (Isa 44:25)

"I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things
frm the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children (in heart). Yes, Father,
for this was your good pleasure (wisdom)." (Lk 10:21)

And the key:

"If anyone chooses to do God' will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God
or whether I speak on my own." (Jn 7:17)
 
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nogard said:
You are right, atheism isn't itself a worldview, but there are worldviews with atheism as its belief system. Secular Humanism, as you mentioned, is one. Marxism/Leninism is another. It's true that I can't say I'm excited about my new belief system, but that hasn't transferred over into my excitement for life and living. Hardcore Christian wrap their entire life around their faith, from the music they listen to, to the friends they have, the activities they partake in, etc. But then you have "Christians" who only go to church on holidays, barely ever pray or meditate on God's word, don't really think about their faith too much. Both people consider themselves Christians, just one person is hardcore about their faith and the other isn't. This doesn't prevent either person from having a happy, fulfilling life. Not everyone needs to be so devoted to their belief system to find joy.
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Are you a humanist? or a Marxist/Leninist? or do you not fall into a category?
 
nogard said:
basically, free will is our ability to choose between the options given us within the capacity we are able to. Removing a sinful nature from us would not violate that. It would be just one of the many limitations to our abilities.
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So, could God remove a 'sin nature' and still leave us with some free will? I think so. Would removing that 'sin nature' from us make a better world? I'm gonna say 'no', here's why...

I think the 'sin nature' is tied to the story of Adam and Eve, and Eve eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil... would I be interested in giving up that knowledge? Eve saw that the fruit was a way of gaining wisdom... the seeking of wisdom is praised in Proverbs, as well as by Qoheleth... so for myself, I want to keep that wisdom, and the knowledge of good and evil... so, imo, the world wouldn't be a better place without a 'sin nature.'
 
Dan, I get the feeling that you think atheists know its true but will do their best to try and deny it, am I right?


And the bible confirms people will say its false?


Well I can fly, and be warned.. people will try and deny this, and prove these words to be true!!


That doesn't mean I can fly.
 
ColinCat said:
Dan, I get the feeling that you think atheists know its true but will do their best to try and deny it, am I right?


And the bible confirms people will say its false?


Well I can fly, and be warned.. people will try and deny this, and prove these words to be true!!


That doesn't mean I can fly.
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The dots don't connect for me there.

Would you connect them for me.
 
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