The Pope had no answer...do you?

[Hizikyah]

How about a slightly different perspective.

It's true there is much suffering, and much poverty in the Philippines.
True.

There is also no abortion... they don't kill their own babies.
There is also no law against praying in school... Jesus is welcome everywhere.
There is also hunger for the gospel in many areas... instead of scoffing.

Hardships change people's hearts.

You would wish on them all the prosperity of America, with all of our scoffing, callousness, and hardened hearts?
You would wish them all to have so much prosperity they ignore God... like we do here?

Suffering is always sad, and always heartbreaking.
But surely God has purposes in it.

Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"

 

[ColinCat]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

 

[newbirth]

Maybe because we have failed as God's ambassadors....or doing a very poor job......

 

[Hizikyah]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

It could be that our generations before us did or id not do certain things...

from a worldly perspective;

a family that is hard working from generation to generation would have a better possibily of maintaing food, shelter, saftey, family, etc, where as a family that was stealing, deceptive, not loving to their own family members would break apart much ,ore easily and the children would be in a much wors off place...

I dont hink we can look at out limited views of the world, as even history does not fully tell the story, but I dont think we can look at this group orthat ans fully undestand the consequences that came from a particular action.... and there are the actions of others that if one is not properly knowledgeable and in the right way from walk to assessment, that they may more easily fall victim.... Now I know there are so many more factors, but too many to mention so I tried to keep it simple.

PS all these things line up with the instruction of the Most High....

 

[Dan_473]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

"All it boils down to is pure luck."
I think that's a belief statement... does believing in a godless universe give you joy? If so, go for it, definitely... myself, I find much more joy in seeking God, and his/her wisdom...

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

And I'm guessing you don't have any directed toward a deity, particularly the God of the Bible. Would that be about right?

I suppose everyone has used the phrase “good luck” on occasion, including me. Repeating the phrase “good luck” has become a habit with most folks and habits are hard to break. The Christian should try. But as I said, I'm guessing you don't have any concerns about having to change your habits for a God you don't believe in, or at least seem to think has no power in this world.

Another similar expression is “by chance.” Some say that came from Shakespeare’s The Merry Wives of Windsor. Regardless of where the phrase came from, its inception has its roots in paganism.

It’s uncanny how commonplace it’s now become to wish good luck on another person. I can understand the lost of this world expressing themselves in this fashion because they either don’t believe in God or they don’t understand the foolishness of such statements. The question is why Christian believers, in many instances, express themselves as unbelievers do when they know there is no such thing as luck or chance? Those of us who know and believe God’s word know that only through our God is it possible to receive blessings of goodness. Wishing someone luck, whether good or bad, has no place in a believer’s vocabulary.

 

[ColinCat]

"All it boils down to is pure luck."
I think that's a belief statement... does believing in a godless universe give you joy? If so, go for it, definitely... myself, I find much more joy in seeking God, and his/her wisdom...

Its not a belief statement.

Your also mixed up with your phrasing. Not believing in god is not the same as believing in a godless universe.

Do you think that if you were born in the third world intead of the first world that you'd be the same person with the same privileges?

 

[notuptome]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

Goes against the very nature of God. God Who created the universe with extreme precision and order does not operate by happenstance. Everything has plan and purpose in Gods creation. Is God not able to do as pleases Him?

The burden for salvation is no greater in the third world than in the most prosperous nations. Is it not difficult for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ColinCat]

Goes against the very nature of God. God Who created the universe with extreme precision and order does not operate by happenstance. Everything has plan and purpose in Gods creation. Is God not able to do as pleases Him?

The burden for salvation is no greater in the third world than in the most prosperous nations. Is it not difficult for the camel to pass through the eye of the needle?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then if its not by chance, its by design. And therefore all those children who die horrific deaths in the third world every day were intended to do so.

 

[notuptome]

Then if its not by chance, its by design. And therefore all those children who die horrific deaths in the third world every day were intended to do so.

Horrifying thought to the natural mind.

I can see them in the presence of the Father. Precious children shining brightly as a testimony of Gods love for those whom the world did not love. Those thought least deserving now highly favored before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ColinCat]

Horrifying thought to the natural mind.

I can see them in the presence of the Father. Precious children shining brightly as a testimony of Gods love for those whom the world did not love. Those thought least deserving now highly favored before God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well that's one way of rationalising it.

 

[Mitspa]

Its not a belief statement.

Your also mixed up with your phrasing. Not believing in god is not the same as believing in a godless universe.

Do you think that if you were born in the third world intead of the first world that you'd be the same person with the same privileges?

These are third world counties because at some point they have rejected the truth of God...Every country that believes the gospel is a blessed society....What these people need is the gospel of Jesus Christ

 

[twotwo]

All it boils down to is pure luck. We were lucky not to be born in that part of the world. There are no other factors involved. We only have what we have because of the environment we are born into.... Regardless of our beliefs.

This part of the world was indeed lucky to have Christian values on which they could build a better world!

This part of the world was indeed lucky to have people risking their life for Christ’ sake in order to build a better world.

As it is written: There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life life for our friends!

 

[kaylagrl]

How about a slightly different perspective.

It's true there is much suffering, and much poverty in the Philippines.
True.

There is also no abortion... they don't kill their own babies.
There is also no law against praying in school... Jesus is welcome everywhere.
There is also hunger for the gospel in many areas... instead of scoffing.

Hardships change people's hearts.

You would wish on them all the prosperity of America, with all of our scoffing, callousness, and hardened hearts?
You would wish them all to have so much prosperity they ignore God... like we do here?

Suffering is always sad, and always heartbreaking.
But surely God has purposes in it.

I dont totally disagree.I cant remember who the pastor was but I believe he was in China.An American pastor said to him "brother I pray for you and your people in your poverty and need" and the pastor of the church in China "And I pray for you brother and your people so may may not forget God with all of your prosperity".Wow! What a rebuke.

 

[crossnote]

Right out of the Garden, God was under no responsibility for our welfare (including suffering children).
Yet He took upon Himself a mission of rescue ,coming and dying, enduring God's wrath for us...yet we ask ' how can God be so aloof from our suffering?'...tsk tsk.

 

[ardchoille]

Many people think it is "game over" when this physical life comes to an end. Nothing could be further from the truth. The time span of this life is a mere flicker when compared to eternity.. and the remainder of eternity is what we will be dealing with after this life comes to an end. I believe the girl was focusing on the present - this physical life on earth - instead of seeing the bigger picture. Our attitudes are much different when we focus on the bigger picture.

 

[ColinCat]

Many people think it is "game over" when this physical life comes to an end. Nothing could be further from the truth. The time span of this life is a mere flicker when compared to eternity.. and the remainder of eternity is what we will be dealing with after this life comes to an end. I believe the girl was focusing on the present - this physical life on earth - instead of seeing the bigger picture. Our attitudes are much different when we focus on the bigger picture.

Then why does our eternity rest on this mere flicker?

 

[Sirk]

Then why does our eternity rest on this mere flicker?

Because if it was any longer no one would make it. Life can be hard.

 

[nogard]

Great post! I'll be glad to take a stab at responding to the questions here in #13... first, let's go with the question implied in at the opening... "Why does God let children suffer?"

I think it's because God wanted to create the best possible world... that includes free choice... that means that some humans will choose to hurt others... do you have ideas about a better world? I'm very interested...

Hey Dan, the problem here is that Christians aren't Deists. They don't believe that God set everything in motion and is now just sitting back and watching the show, not interfering at all with the happenings of this world. Christians believe in a personal God that interacts with his creation, even today. He answers prayers, performs miracles, intercedes on our behalf, enacts His will, etc. He's very active in this world according to Christians.

Why does this matter? Well the problem with the free will defense is that it acts as if God has His hands tied behind His back. If He wants us to TRULY have free will, then he must allow us to make bad choices, and those bad choices can cause suffering. If God were to alleviate suffering, then he'd be interfering with our free will. The problem here is that God already is interfering every time He answers a prayer, rescues someone from danger, enacts His will in the world, etc. If God is already saving some people from suffering, but not others, it kind of throws the whole free will defense out the window. Because it no longer becomes a matter of respecting free will, but rather a matter of selective interference.

Also, no one has really commented about God's selective interference, namely why Christians in America believe God is actively helping them with all these small, trivial things in their life while ignoring cries for help from people truly in need. And to be honest, after reading some of these responses, I'm not sure what I'm more concerned about - God's apparent lack of compassion for those who are suffering, or the lack of compassion from Christian's on this forum for those who are suffering.

And once again, for all those people saying it's our fault people are suffering and not God's fault, I would just like to remind you that whether we help or not, God is still actively choosing not help those in need. I already explained in an earlier post how it is a foolish notion to excuse God's inaction just because of our own inaction.

And to answer your last question Dan, I have plenty of ideas for how this world could be a lot better. But just to humor you, most Christians believe after the second coming and the rapture there will be a new heaven and a new earth where we will all live and there will be no more sorrow and no more pain. Now, in this future utopia, will our free will be gone? If not, then apparently God does know of a way for us to have both free will and live in peace. And He's God for crying out loud. He's omniscient, omnipotent. It's not hard to imagine a being like that having the ability to create a better situation than the one we are in.

 

[Saint-John]

Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest...........etc

there are two players in this (game !?) life God and the enemy

people chose religion ( anything other than Gods way ) and blame God !!??
the enemy is merciless cruel etc just look in the news and history..God creates the enemy destroys..and is using man in his attempts ( who is very eager to help and follow..)

yes time and chance do happen..he sends the rain on the just and the unjust..BUT WITH GOD there is always a way out..he will not let you be tempted etc greater than you can stand ..you the head not the tail..etc

let go of the enemy do it Gods way through Jesus Christ..acts 2 v 38..mark 16 v 16 +..rom 8 v 9 ..etc