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They are not lost the matter is dealt with in John in a sense withPeters restoration for he has the Lord asan interceeder with thr Father ' I have prayed for you' and in that whole series of actions in Luke and John after He rose and before He ascended thatgathered the disciples again. The epistles also deal with restoration - That is Rom to Thess, Timothy, Peter, etc. Hebrews is of a different character as itdeal with Jews saved and associated with the gospel but not saved, so there chapter 13 is in reality a gospel appeal and continueing is more to do with Christ, the whole purpose of the Law is to reveal Christ, so to reject Christ is to cease to believe in the Law whose purpose was of a schoolmaster to teach Christ. In all things, I judge,we must try to discern exactly the right applications of scripture and not treat it like putty that we mold as we wsh.
Why must we insist on mixing parables or teachings? Just read what the parable tells you, learn from the simplicity of it and move on. Christ was moving around from town to town teaching different groups of people over many months. He wasn’t teaching only one thing. He was communicating who His Father is, what He expects and how to follow. The story about the prodigal son is a teaching on its own. It’s simple, relatable and straightforward. The people Christ was teaching don’t have the box set of Jesus all time best sermons. He wasn’t extrapolating on every lesson spoken in public and private, nor prophesying of future events. In this parable Christ explains that if we, who are children of God, go astray, He diligently waits for us to smarten up and return to Him. When we do there is forgiveness and much rejoicing. The simple lesson: you can always come back regardless of sinfulness. Those who stay receive a greater inheritance. Sometimes God is like a Shepherd who has a runaway sheep (follower). God will not leave that sheep to wander off unnoticed. He leaves the herd to find the lost. Lesson: God does not value less the backslider. He will find them and try to bring them home.
Christ wasn’t teaching Spirit filled, church raised, well educated, Bible scholars. They were simple people who were spiritually starving and in need of direction. Many were farmers and shepherds. If Christ was teaching us today I wonder how different the parables would be. Regardless, I’m certain we would over analyze and complicate them.
Christ wasn’t teaching Spirit filled, church raised, well educated, Bible scholars. They were simple people who were spiritually starving and in need of direction. Many were farmers and shepherds. If Christ was teaching us today I wonder how different the parables would be. Regardless, I’m certain we would over analyze and complicate them.
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The Bse rock of all church doctrine is the life , teaching, words, sequences, parables and miracles as recorded in Luke 'things most arruaradly belieced amongst us (the church) - This makes Lukes narrative unigue in its purpose. The above is an ad hoc view of the goapels is sufficient, but that is not a correct view (not that face value is wrong) it far deeper . The siginifigance is not in the imgination but in the use of words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that Luke has so very carefully chosen in his discriptions coupled to the sequences and the detailing of doctrine in the epistles . For example 'this day you will be with me in paradise' is the base rock of at the moment of death present with the Lord as taught in the epistles - but the basis is the sayings of the Lord etc
Not born again a second time.
Reconciled back to God.
To be lost a person must first belong to God.
One can not lose what one does not first own.
“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:8-10
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
JPT
Reconciled back to God.
To be lost a person must first belong to God.
One can not lose what one does not first own.
“Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls her friends and neighbors together, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the piece which I lost!’ Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:8-10
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
JPT
All in Israel were seperated to God by circuncision and the Law - gentiles are viewed as being as far away as possible and enemies
Alan
h
- the context of the Lord's life was in and to Israel - The post calvary teaching (about church and gentiles) is contained in visits to Decapolis Ceaserea, dealings with gentiles - Samaria, the Herodian official John 4, The Centurian in Luke, the very unusual story about Zaccaeus (meaning pure) in Luke etc. It is important to bserve these things
Alan
h
- the context of the Lord's life was in and to Israel - The post calvary teaching (about church and gentiles) is contained in visits to Decapolis Ceaserea, dealings with gentiles - Samaria, the Herodian official John 4, The Centurian in Luke, the very unusual story about Zaccaeus (meaning pure) in Luke etc. It is important to bserve these things
Jesus spoke the parables in response to the pharisees and scribes who murmured because He received publicans and sinners and ate with them (Luke 15:1-3). The pharisees and scribes separated themselves from the common people. After He spoke the parables to address the issue He dealt concerning the pharisees and scribes, Jesus spoke to His disciples and taught another parable in Luke 16:1-13. The pharisees who were present when He taught His disciples also heard that parable and, because they were covetous, they derided Jesus.
Jesus summed up all the parables He taught in Luke 15 and Luke 16 by telling them Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God (Luke 16:15).
Jesus was addressing the attitude of the pharisees and scribes when He taught the parables in Luke 15. He taught the pharisees and scribes that, while they detested the publicans and sinners Jesus received and ate with, these publicans and sinners were precious in the sight of God and the things which were highly esteemed by the pharisees were abomination in the sight of God.
In agreement that when we sin, there is a rift in our fellowship with the Father and with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth - 1 John 1:6). However, when a born again believer sins, he/she is still a child of God.
The parables spoken by Jesus in Luke 15, there were no born again children of God. These were children of Israel who were in covenant relationship with God. And God shows His care and concern for those with whom He has a covenant, even though they have not honored the covenant they have with God.
If God will leave the 99 in Luke 15:4-7, and the 10 in Luke 15:8-10, and if God will welcome back with open arms and great rejoicing as shown in Luke 15:11-32, how much more does He seek out His own children who are born again of Holy Spirit?
Do you really believe God will cast His own children into the lake of fire if they die before restoration of fellowship?
The parables spoken by Jesus in Luke 15, there were no born again children of God. These were children of Israel who were in covenant relationship with God. And God shows His care and concern for those with whom He has a covenant, even though they have not honored the covenant they have with God.
If God will leave the 99 in Luke 15:4-7, and the 10 in Luke 15:8-10, and if God will welcome back with open arms and great rejoicing as shown in Luke 15:11-32, how much more does He seek out His own children who are born again of Holy Spirit?
Do you really believe God will cast His own children into the lake of fire if they die before restoration of fellowship?
Those who were circumcised and obeyed the Lord were seperated unto the Lord into covenant relationship: The Abrahamic Covenant.
The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant because of transgression of that Covenant law, which was walk before Me and be blameless.
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2
again
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
- It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come
The Abraham Covenant is the Foundational Covenant that the law of Moses was added to, and that we are grafted into through faith in Jesus Christ, by which we are called sons of Abraham. [Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.]
There are not two Covenant's, the old Covenant and new Covenant, but rather there is one Covenant: The original Covenant, and the renewed Covenant, what we call the New Covenant.
Same Lord.
Just as there are not two Lord's, the Lord of the old Covenant and the Lord of the new Covenant, but One Lord, Who made Covenant with Abraham and became flesh, grafting in the Gentiles who believe, by His own blood, thereby making one new man.
The law of Moses was only a sub component of the Abrahamic Covenant, having been "added" until the Seed should come.
BY saying "added", the Holy Spirit is indicating the law was a part of something greater.
JPT
A lost child who must repent.
Lost = sinner in need of repentance; unjust - dead to God. Unreconciled
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7
Sinner is someone who is separated from Christ - Unreconciled with Him.
For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26
JPT
God doesn't leave the 99. He is in heaven seated upon the throne.
It's up to us, to go after the lost.
That is what He was teaching His disciples.
Jesus is describing what we are to do, about sheep who have wandered away and become lost.
He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me?”
He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.”
He said to him, “Tend My sheep.” John 21:16
That's why it's called the ministry of reconciliation.
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20
James says it this way -
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17
- If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
- And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.
Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:
- “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
- If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
- But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
- And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
JPT
And there was nothing more in them? Of course there is! - The vineyard is pin point accurate concrening the prophets, the motives of the leaders of Israel, the killing of The Som, The judgement upon Israel, that spiritual life is now with others - the church of the redeemed. And so it is with every parable and the differences in each gospel - the good seed in the sower for example is discribed differently in each In evemts it is the same and in Miracles the same. We must look for those accurate spritual meanings which are not just defined by the miracle but by sequence . So in Luke The Centurian is a picture of the result of faith through the gospel in the nations 'I have not found such faith - no not in all Israel and in the detail for in Luke he never saw the Lord but only heard of him The church are those who have heard but not seen = Israel as with Saul of Tarsus and in Zech 12, exampled by Thomas those that see and believe = and then the next day or if you like afterwards to Nain where the Lord approaches with a host and raises up the youg man and he Sits and speaks A pitture of connected with the end of the church age 'after' the Lord returning to rescue Israel with a host Zech 12 for Israel to be born again Ezek 37. The language of Nain is the Language of Zech 12 Mourning for her only Son as they mourned for Josiah and the Town overlooks the Vale where Josiah received his fatal wound. More than that He sits up and Speaks teachers sit when teaching and after the Lord restores Israel they will teach the world (a nation of priests Is 60 - 63 Aslso Saul of Tarsus he sees the Lord is bap tised as a believer and teaches the world The gospels are not just for sunday schoole lessons or just a simple lesson they teach the foundation of all doctrin
So, what is the word of reconciliation that has been given to us, justpassinthrough?
Is it, as you claim, repent of your sin or God will cast you into outer darkness, and you will suffer eternal death, and that you are spiritually dead?
Or is the word of reconciliation what God tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21:
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he [God] hath made him [our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Interesting that you focus on James 5:20 with the addition of your added word "eternal" so you can prop up a doctrine never intended by God.
Why do you insist upon eternal death for the born again believer even though you understand 1 Cor 5:5 indicates the believer who continues in sin may experience destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I do not believe you fully understand what it is to be a born again child of God and how powerful the new birth is within the born again believer.
Is it, as you claim, repent of your sin or God will cast you into outer darkness, and you will suffer eternal death, and that you are spiritually dead?
Or is the word of reconciliation what God tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21:
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he [God] hath made him [our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Interesting that you focus on James 5:20 with the addition of your added word "eternal" so you can prop up a doctrine never intended by God.
Why do you insist upon eternal death for the born again believer even though you understand 1 Cor 5:5 indicates the believer who continues in sin may experience destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
I do not believe you fully understand what it is to be a born again child of God and how powerful the new birth is within the born again believer.
@justpassinthrough
Your quote
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"That's why it's called the ministry of reconciliation.
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20"
Are you talking about WITNESSING? so that NON Christian's can be saved and reconciled back to Christ?
And Btw..these were letters to the faithful Christian's in Corinth..
Your quote
"
"That's why it's called the ministry of reconciliation.
Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 2 Corinthians 5:18-20"
Are you talking about WITNESSING? so that NON Christian's can be saved and reconciled back to Christ?
And Btw..these were letters to the faithful Christian's in Corinth..