The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

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CS1

CS1

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KelbyofGod said:
@CS1 I also want to add that I believe tongues is to be used in regular prayer at the discretion of the pray-er (within the bounds of proper conduct). Especially when the person is praying alone (away from others).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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In addition the three things I spoke about earlier

1. used to edify
2. bring comfort
3. Must line up with the word of God and confirm what is already known.

They were given by Paul to ensure the gifts of the Holy Spirit were used correctly and not abused but encouraged to use them. Many scriptures tell us to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said: Mark 16

2cor 1:11 the same word used here for Gift in the Greek is the same as Unction

1tim 4:14 Neglect not the gift (charisma) that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

over and over we are instructed to use the Spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit.
 
K

KelbyofGod

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CS1 said:
NOw Jesus did explain to Peter why he was going to wash his feet, teaching the lesson of the servant.
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Just re-read and noticed this in your posting. Jesus did NOT explain to Peter why he was going to wash his feet. He only explained it AFTER he washed his feet. Jesus required submission without understanding in this case. John 13:5-12 <-- I post references so people can reread rather than relying on our imperfect memories of what happened. Overlooking details is one of the ways Satan gets a foot-hold.

Consider what Eve said to the serpent as an example of this...
Genesis 3:2-4 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: [3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. [4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Well, the serpent was correct that they would not die for TOUCHING the fruit. Eve had made an assumption and inserted a detail that God did NOT say. And that gave the serpent a footing to say what he said.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Beez

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KelbyofGod said:
Well, I guess I'd ask you to clarify what you mean by "faked" because that implies recognition that there is a "real" and the ability to differentiate between the two.
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Well, I have seen many others make this claim, but the claim will not withstand simple common sense. :)


KelbyofGod said:
Also, I'm not supporting faked tongues. I'm talking about the kind that comes with receiving the Holy Ghost, that sometimes a person doesn't even know exists until they are seeking God and he just pours it upon them as he did to the disciples in Acts 2 and Cornelius' group in Acts 10. And can also be granted through help of others...as was given at laying on of hands in Acts 19 and Acts 8.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Of course, in the Acts era, G_D used languages to spread the news of the work of Messiah on the execution stake. He wanted to do it very efficiently and quickly, so He used spoken languages. There were many people in that region at that time who spoke many languages, and they not only needed the Gospel themselves, but they would be the ones taking it to their own regions. The Gospel of G_D and His Son was never, ever intended for Jews only or for Gentiles only: it was for all whom G_D had called from all nations before the world began. The languages were the common ones used by the people, not special languages, not the "languages of angels," never intended for big attention-getting displays, for drawing attention to the individuals but to draw people to Messiah.

Additionally, (according to my Bible) the H Spirit starts His work in us today as well from even before we notice the conviction of our very active sin. For myself, I did not beg for the H Spirit or even ask for Him. He was there to convict me, to make me miserable that I was such an unholy, unpenitent sinner. It wasn't fun. It was not the boisterous dance-party I have seen in some churches.

I have heard that there have been some few times when persons who did not know a given language were able to communicate with someone about Messiah in an unlearned language. I cannot find it in myself to doubt that G_D has done that by either a miracle of speaking or one of hearing. But that is not the way G_D usually does His work through us. :)
 
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KelbyofGod

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Beez said:
Well, I have seen many others make this claim, but the claim will not withstand simple common sense. :)




Of course, in the Acts era, G_D used languages to spread the news of the work of Messiah on the execution stake. He wanted to do it very efficiently and quickly, so He used spoken languages. There were many people in that region at that time who spoke many languages, and they not only needed the Gospel themselves, but they would be the ones taking it to their own regions. The Gospel of G_D and His Son was never, ever intended for Jews only or for Gentiles only: it was for all whom G_D had called from all nations before the world began. The languages were the common ones used by the people, not special languages, not the "languages of angels," never intended for big attention-getting displays, for drawing attention to the individuals but to draw people to Messiah.

Additionally, (according to my Bible) the H Spirit starts His work in us today as well from even before we notice the conviction of our very active sin. For myself, I did not beg for the H Spirit or even ask for Him. He was there to convict me, to make me miserable that I was such an unholy, unpenitent sinner. It wasn't fun. It was not the boisterous dance-party I have seen in some churches.

I have heard that there have been some few times when persons who did not know a given language were able to communicate with someone about Messiah in an unlearned language. I cannot find it in myself to doubt that G_D has done that by either a miracle of speaking or one of hearing. But that is not the way G_D usually does His work through us. :)
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Hi Beez,
I highlighted your last sentence because it fits the same pattern that Throughfaith's does (the pattern of seeing the world not as it is, but as we are) and not as the bible describes it.

If the word of God is true, then the spirit does not work through everyone the same way. And we should expect to see just what you were describing "some few times when persons who did not know a given language were able to communicate with someone about Messiah in an unlearned language" because that is one of the manifestations of the spirit described in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 KJV

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. [6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. [7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. [8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; [9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; [10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: [11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

What you described was diverse kinds of tongues... the speaking of languages not previously learned by the speaker... as predicted by the word of God.

Should we be surprised that the word of God holds true? Or should we consider the performance of God's word "ungodly"? (I think not.)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

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Scribe said:
When I was saved I was 18 years old and in jail. I had no church background or knowledge of the bible or christian views at all. I read the bible daily and when I got to the book of Acts I saw a pattern that was obvious to me and I prayed for and received the same experience (an infilling of the Holy Ghost with the gift of speaking in tongues) It did immediately empower me to be a witness (gifts of knowing what to say that came to me at the time needed and was exactly what the person had been thinking about, and other supernatural manifestations in this category of witnessing were evident and were not there before) What I was living was what I was reading and I never questioned it. Then I discovered that there were churches that did not believe that these things that happened in the book of Acts were still happening today. I was one of the lucky ones in that I never had to read the scripture through the filters of the arguments presented by cessationists to confuse me. Since I have been continuously experiencing times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord (another benefit) I have been illuminated by both the Holy Spirit and the rules of hermeneutics to interpret the scriptures on this subject with the sincere desire to know what the Holy Spirit and the authors he used intended when they wrote about it. I do not appeal to the authority of experience alone, I am testifying that through careful analysis of all of the texts on this subject it became obvious to me from the beginning of my journey that the Out pouring of the Holy Ghost including the gift of tongues for believers was a normative experience in the first church. Also the expectation and desire that it produced in me when reading about it was God's intention as well. Also I was convinced by reading the scriptures that He is faithful to give the Holy Spirit to all that ask, seek, and knock just as he did, and in the same manner in which we read about it in the book of Acts. So 1) I am motivated by the sincere belief that God has written these things so that our faith will be ignited to ask for it, and 2) it is not pleasing to God for anyone to teach that what God's intentions were when giving gifts to the Church by the filling of the individual with the Holy Ghost is no longer needed today. God is NOT saying that the church no longer needs these gifts for mutual edification. To say that "they are not for me" or "I can do without them thank your very much" is to sadly underestimate the benefit of these gifts that Jesus died and rose again and ascended in order to give. 3) Also, because I have a passion for correctly interpreting scripture, as in discovering authorial intent, and to the best of my ability apply the rules of hermeneutics to properly exegete passages I feel an obligation to point it out when those rules are not followed and erroneous statements are made as a result.
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Scribe,
I was just rereading some of the thread and thought it good to thank you again for this post. I've heard of several groups who were seeking God with no knowledge or intention of receiving the outpouring that results in speaking in tongues, but because they were diligently seeking God's face, he poured it out upon them (often to their great surprise)... which, as you know, is in line with the accounts in the bible.

It's sad but true that all through history people mock, scorn and deride the effects of diligently seeking God. It started with Cain (who could have done what Abel did and have been likewise received, but instead decided to attack the righteous) and has been testified by the apostles to be going to continue (and increase) pretty much until the end. And, almost laughably ironic is what is prescribed by Jude as the way to prepare ourselves to face this... "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most Holy faith PRAYING IN THE HOLY GHOST" which IS speaking in tongues for if I speak in an unknown tongue my spirit prayeth<-- (literally the only thing biblically defines as spirit-prayer).

And honestly, I don't intend to add anymore to this particular post (not thread) but I'm guessing the scoffers won't be able to leave it alone. I'd truly be glad if they did, but if they don't it will just keep the thread (and the reminder that tongues is still relevant and and active) towards the top of the viewable list for even longer, so praise God for that.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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throughfaith

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I think we seriously need to ask ' what do tongues do ,in the sense of how we see them used today . I makes sense that a language being used to share the gospel / sign to unbelieving Jews . A sign confirming the message.
 
K

KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
I think we seriously need to ask ' what do tongues do ,in the sense of how we see them used today . I makes sense that a language being used to share the gospel / sign to unbelieving Jews . A sign confirming the message.
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To me, your first sentence is unnecessary and adds confusion in terms of your 2nd and 3rd sentences.

Are you wanting to know if your 2nd and 3rd sentences are reasonable uses of language? (To me they seem reasonable)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
I think we seriously need to ask ' what do tongues do ,in the sense of how we see them used today . I makes sense that a language being used to share the gospel / sign to unbelieving Jews . A sign confirming the message.
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Also, is that how you are using "speaking in tongues" today?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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throughfaith

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KelbyofGod said:
Also, is that how you are using "speaking in tongues" today?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I see in Mark 16
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues ;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Of course at the time of writing this the Author would have witnessed, as we read in the book of Acts ,all these signs accompanying the preaching of the Jews to Jews . Signs . All the way through the bible we see that a ' sign ' is always given to Jews ,for Jews . I don't see anywhere that Gentiies require a sign . In Acts the multi use of other languages is a sign . The 'tongue 'Cornelius ect first spoke was a 'Sign 'to Peter and other Jews that God had now moved to grant repentence to the gentiles now .
 
K

KelbyofGod

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@throughfaith regarding the following quote...
KelbyofGod said:
Are you wanting to know if your 2nd and 3rd sentences are reasonable uses of language? (To me they seem reasonable)
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I could have used "speaking in tongues" instead of "language".

If speaking in tongues is being used to share the gospel, that seems a reasonable use to me... but I call it "Diverse" tongues when the person speaking doesn't know the language but the hearer does.

If speaking in tongues is being used as a sign to unbelieving Jews, that seems a reasonable use to me.

If speaking in tongues is being used as a sign confirming the message, that seems a reasonable use to me.

Those all seem like reasonable uses/purposes to me. They're just not the ONLY uses, purposes, benefits.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
I see in Mark 16
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues ;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Of course at the time of writing this the Author would have witnessed, as we read in the book of Acts ,all these signs accompanying the preaching of the Jews to Jews . Signs . All the way through the bible we see that a ' sign ' is always given to Jews ,for Jews . I don't see anywhere that Gentiies require a sign . In Acts the multi use of other languages is a sign . The 'tongue 'Cornelius ect first spoke was a 'Sign 'to Peter and other Jews that God had now moved to grant repentence to the gentiles now .
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Sorry that this post(my reply) is in rapid succession of other posts because it's hard when several messages are floating around at the same time. But your post doesn't answer my question.

You said we ought to look seriously at how tongues are being used TODAY. And my question is exactly on that topic. How are YOU using "speaking in tongues" TODAY.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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throughfaith

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KelbyofGod said:
Sorry that this post(my reply) is in rapid succession of other posts because it's hard when several messages are floating around at the same time. But your post doesn't answer my question.

You said we ought to look seriously at how tongues are being used TODAY. And my question is exactly on that topic. How are YOU using "speaking in tongues" TODAY.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Languages. A sign to unbelievers ( jews )
 
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KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
Languages. A sign to unbelievers ( jews )
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Would you provide an example of a time and manner that you used these languages as a sign to unbelieving Jews...and what was the result?

BTW, I'm intermittently shoveling snow so my replies may be delayed.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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throughfaith

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KelbyofGod said:
Would you provide an example of a time and manner that you used these languages as a sign to unbelieving Jews...and what was the result?

BTW, I'm intermittently shoveling snow so my replies may be delayed.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Me personally? No I've not experienced personally.
 
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KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
Me personally? No I've not experienced personally.
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Thank you for being honest.

I have "speaking in tongues" and speak in tongues daily, so I'll speak from that perspective. But I will not attempt to explain why someone else did something with tongues (good or bad) unless for some reason I actually knew their intent. What would you like to know about how I use "speaking in tongues" today?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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throughfaith

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KelbyofGod said:
Thank you for being honest.

I have "speaking in tongues" and speak in tongues daily, so I'll speak from that perspective. But I will not attempt to explain why someone else did something with tongues (good or bad) unless for some reason I actually knew their intent. What would you like to know about how I use "speaking in tongues" today?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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My only enquiry would be scripture. A person could tell me angels speak to them every night and I would still only believe what the bible says on the matter. I could recount of ' experiences that have happened when i used to follow new age practices that I now know were not from a good source .
 
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KelbyofGod

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throughfaith said:
My only enquiry would be scripture. A person could tell me angels speak to them every night and I would still only believe what the bible says on the matter. I could recount of ' experiences that have happened when i used to follow new age practices that I now know were not from a good source .
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If Scripture is your only inquiry, why do you come to the forum?

And why did you say we should look into how tongues are used today if you have no intention of looking into how tongues are used today?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
K

KelbyofGod

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In the bible... Some people (like Mary Magdalene, out of whom he'd cast seven devils) came to Jesus because they saw something in him that they wanted...and they drew near to see if they could get it (or even some of it) too. Some (like Zacchaeus) had only heard of him and wanted (honestly) to see what he was all about. Then there was a third group who started to show up as he did and spoke well... not because they wanted what he had... not because they saw truth in him...not because they were honestly seeking the truth of what he was talking about... They were showing up to persecute.

It was a good chunk of years before I started paying attention to what that really meant... "Persecute/persecution". I thought it just meant to do bad things to someone. But I was overlooking what I now think is the more important aspect of "persecution". It's not the manifestation ...because that gets tailored to look like something good. It's the intent. (link to definition)-but I think "commit a wrongful or criminal act" should be replaced with "cause harm").

Love in Jesus to all,
Kelby
 
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KelbyofGod

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I guess I'd better add this...
The way I understand it now, "Persecution" in practice is basically the polar opposite of "Mercy".

Mercy (+grace?)= adores the person, seeks to minimize (eradicate if possible) any transgression, and (if possible) bring good to the person instead of punishment. (Proverbs 17:9, Matt. 1:19, 1 Peter 4:8)

Persecution= dislikes the person, seeks a transgression hoping to maximize it and (if possible) use it to bring punishment (destruction) upon the person.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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