The Purpose of This Life
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Example scripture of being saved (Greek=delivered) from being ignorant of God's righteousness. Romans 10:1-2-3 - Thes men of Israel were already born again, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, by the evidence that they have a zeal of God. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14, does not have a zeal of God. There is a salvation (deliverance) in coming unto the knowledge of the gospel that we receive here in this world. There is an eternal deliverance, and there is also many deliverences we receive here in this world.
I think you asked some good questions in your post. I'll start answering by pointing you (and everyone) toward God because he has the answers to all our questions and he actually commands us to ask ("Ask and ye shall receive").
He wants us to ask him because 1) he wants to spend time with us because he loves us; 2) he wants to give us the answers because he loves us; 3) he wants the interaction to be willingly (not forced) because he loves us which is why he tells us how to get the answers but doesn't force us to come get them.
That simultaneously is the reason why he made us with free will and the ability to choose evil. My advice is to ponder that concept for quite awhile
Making things (beings) perfect is not the same as the thing actually wanting to be/remain perfect. See Ezekiel 28 for an example of that.
And forcing something to desire only what you want it to have is not freedom..is not love. And God is love.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
He wants us to ask him because 1) he wants to spend time with us because he loves us; 2) he wants to give us the answers because he loves us; 3) he wants the interaction to be willingly (not forced) because he loves us which is why he tells us how to get the answers but doesn't force us to come get them.
That simultaneously is the reason why he made us with free will and the ability to choose evil. My advice is to ponder that concept for quite awhile
Making things (beings) perfect is not the same as the thing actually wanting to be/remain perfect. See Ezekiel 28 for an example of that.
And forcing something to desire only what you want it to have is not freedom..is not love. And God is love.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
You are correct that the OP only addressed the question from man's point of view. (AKA what is the overriding value/purpose of man having this life...if you are a (hu)man.)
It isn't asking or answering the question from God's perspective. (AKA what was God's purpose in creating us...what was he hoping to get out of it?)
I will stick with my initial inclination and again suggest that you (and everyone) take that question to God in prayer and ask him to give/open/share/reveal the answer to you.
That also is one of those choices set before us. Those that wish to draw nigh to God and ask him, believing that he loves his children and is willing to teach us, will do so willingly. Those that want to believe that God won't answer them and therefore choose to believe it would be a waste of their time taking such a question to God, will do that willingly.
Both options are before us... love allows us to choose.
Love in Jesus to you,
Kelby
It isn't asking or answering the question from God's perspective. (AKA what was God's purpose in creating us...what was he hoping to get out of it?)
I will stick with my initial inclination and again suggest that you (and everyone) take that question to God in prayer and ask him to give/open/share/reveal the answer to you.
That also is one of those choices set before us. Those that wish to draw nigh to God and ask him, believing that he loves his children and is willing to teach us, will do so willingly. Those that want to believe that God won't answer them and therefore choose to believe it would be a waste of their time taking such a question to God, will do that willingly.
Both options are before us... love allows us to choose.
Love in Jesus to you,
Kelby
My apologies for making 3 replies to a single post (I guess that means I really like your post) and my apologies for not answering sooner....or pointing to specific scriptures to answer the question from God's perspective.
I'm not sure what scriptures God will point you to in answer to your question. It's a great question. I've been asking questions like it for 20+ years, and he teaches accordingly along the way, but I haven't specifically asked that question and I'd not want to rob you of the joy of him answering you directly.
Once you ask, keep reading his word in expectation of being answered. If he leads you to read somewhere specific, read there. But if not, just read wherever in the bible that seems interesting, important, necessary or otherwise beneficial and trust that he'll make the answer clear when it is time.
Some answers aren't in a single quoted verse but in a combination of scriptures.
I wish you well in your seeking.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I'm not sure what scriptures God will point you to in answer to your question. It's a great question. I've been asking questions like it for 20+ years, and he teaches accordingly along the way, but I haven't specifically asked that question and I'd not want to rob you of the joy of him answering you directly.
Once you ask, keep reading his word in expectation of being answered. If he leads you to read somewhere specific, read there. But if not, just read wherever in the bible that seems interesting, important, necessary or otherwise beneficial and trust that he'll make the answer clear when it is time.
Some answers aren't in a single quoted verse but in a combination of scriptures.
I wish you well in your seeking.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I sincerely thank you for your post and advise.
Here’s my speculation about a possible answer and it’s only speculation, I have nothing to back it up with.
I think it’s all about freedom and maybe a trial of faith. I think God created Satan knowing he’d be his rival and rebel against him so he, (God), could reveal to the other worlds of God’s massive and unending universe the cost of sin and disobedience. I think we here on earth are being watched by other worlds. I think that since no-one seems to have another answer to “why God made the anti-God and sent him to earth,” is also to reveal to the world(s) the value, redemption and love God has for those faithful in the face of tremendous temptations and without knowing God’s total plan.
God loves freedom for his children, loves the faithful and is teaching his universe.
Here’s my speculation about a possible answer and it’s only speculation, I have nothing to back it up with.
I think it’s all about freedom and maybe a trial of faith. I think God created Satan knowing he’d be his rival and rebel against him so he, (God), could reveal to the other worlds of God’s massive and unending universe the cost of sin and disobedience. I think we here on earth are being watched by other worlds. I think that since no-one seems to have another answer to “why God made the anti-God and sent him to earth,” is also to reveal to the world(s) the value, redemption and love God has for those faithful in the face of tremendous temptations and without knowing God’s total plan.
God loves freedom for his children, loves the faithful and is teaching his universe.
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"Finding the amount of favor with Christ to receive eternal life" is an indication that "our good works" is what saves us eternally. Matt 16:24-25, Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself (lean not unto his own understanding, Prov 3:5), and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Romans 9:11-12-13, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Did Jacob have to find favor with Christ before he was even born? All of God's elect are chosen to eternal life in the same manner that Jacob was.
We are all born into this world as natural beings, 1 Cor 2:14, and the only way that we become spiritual beings is explained in Eph 2, that when we were yet "dead (spiritually) in sins", and unable to find favor with Christ, because we could not understand the things of the Spirit, until we were born again, and regenerated, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. With this process of being born again, God gets all of the credit, and man gets no credit for finding favor with Christ.
Salvation, according to the Greek, means "a deliverance". There is a deliverance, after a person is born again, when he comes to a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. This deliverance (salvation) is earned by man (salvation by works), in finding favor of Christ by our attempts to study and gain more knowledge of the gospel. Finding favor with Christ does not save (deliver) you eternally. If the salvation scriptures are not rightly divided, eternally and timely, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance by our good works.
Romans 9:11-12-13, For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, the elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Did Jacob have to find favor with Christ before he was even born? All of God's elect are chosen to eternal life in the same manner that Jacob was.
We are all born into this world as natural beings, 1 Cor 2:14, and the only way that we become spiritual beings is explained in Eph 2, that when we were yet "dead (spiritually) in sins", and unable to find favor with Christ, because we could not understand the things of the Spirit, until we were born again, and regenerated, with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. With this process of being born again, God gets all of the credit, and man gets no credit for finding favor with Christ.
Salvation, according to the Greek, means "a deliverance". There is a deliverance, after a person is born again, when he comes to a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. This deliverance (salvation) is earned by man (salvation by works), in finding favor of Christ by our attempts to study and gain more knowledge of the gospel. Finding favor with Christ does not save (deliver) you eternally. If the salvation scriptures are not rightly divided, eternally and timely, they will tend to teach eternal deliverance by our good works.
I just re-read this whole thread and I still like your posts (especially #39) the best.
As men (humans, both male and female) we tend to look at things from just our own point of view... AKA "Now that I'm here, what is my purpose?". But that falls short of what was being asked.. which is closer to "Why does everything that makes us possible exist in the first place... so that now I, too, exist within it (and many will exist after me)? Why does ANY of this exist?
And the answer is still the same, both from God's perspective and for man. "So man can choose". (paraphrased)
Believers in God tend to realize that while we are in this life we need to (ought to, are commanded to) choose God and life over death and evil.
But we might fail to realize that God set up this life ...even beginning with the Garden of Eden... with the opportunity for evil BECAUSE he wants us to have that ability to choose.
If a woman marries a man that is the ONLY man on the face of the earth, is she doing it because she loves him? Or is it because he's the ONLY choice available? She might SAY it's because she loves him.. but the truth of whether she actually loves him or not cannot be proven until there is another man hanging around and showing interest in her. Then it gets real.
That's kind of why there has to be evil available on earth. There has to be a non-God option available to be chosen or else it's not truly clear whether the bride of Christ is marrying him because of love rather than just that he's the ONLY option.
John 3:19 KJV
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Looking forward to your reply, comments, further questions.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
As men (humans, both male and female) we tend to look at things from just our own point of view... AKA "Now that I'm here, what is my purpose?". But that falls short of what was being asked.. which is closer to "Why does everything that makes us possible exist in the first place... so that now I, too, exist within it (and many will exist after me)? Why does ANY of this exist?
And the answer is still the same, both from God's perspective and for man. "So man can choose". (paraphrased)
Believers in God tend to realize that while we are in this life we need to (ought to, are commanded to) choose God and life over death and evil.
But we might fail to realize that God set up this life ...even beginning with the Garden of Eden... with the opportunity for evil BECAUSE he wants us to have that ability to choose.
If a woman marries a man that is the ONLY man on the face of the earth, is she doing it because she loves him? Or is it because he's the ONLY choice available? She might SAY it's because she loves him.. but the truth of whether she actually loves him or not cannot be proven until there is another man hanging around and showing interest in her. Then it gets real.
That's kind of why there has to be evil available on earth. There has to be a non-God option available to be chosen or else it's not truly clear whether the bride of Christ is marrying him because of love rather than just that he's the ONLY option.
John 3:19 KJV
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Looking forward to your reply, comments, further questions.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Before becoming a christian when going through my science college education and the quantum nature of this reality I got the distinct impression that this world was a temporary simulation. I felt disappointed that this world wasn't the real one. What's the point of this simulation?
After becoming a christian and reading the bible I came to the conclusion that God is running this temporary simulation so that all those that end up with him in the real everlasting world are there because they chose Him. Was God surprised by satan's fall? Of course not. Was God surprised by Adam and Eve's fall? Of course not. Why release satan briefly after the 1000 years? I hated that release idea when I first read it. Everyone must be given a legitimate choice and choose God (believe Jesus' death, burial resurrection for our sins) to be with Him. That is faith and it alone determines our location in the real world after this simulation.
God may give us various gifts and use us to provide an informed choice opportunity to others but that is His glory not ours. I believe the answer received in the original post about the purpose of this life is from God.
After becoming a christian and reading the bible I came to the conclusion that God is running this temporary simulation so that all those that end up with him in the real everlasting world are there because they chose Him. Was God surprised by satan's fall? Of course not. Was God surprised by Adam and Eve's fall? Of course not. Why release satan briefly after the 1000 years? I hated that release idea when I first read it. Everyone must be given a legitimate choice and choose God (believe Jesus' death, burial resurrection for our sins) to be with Him. That is faith and it alone determines our location in the real world after this simulation.
God may give us various gifts and use us to provide an informed choice opportunity to others but that is His glory not ours. I believe the answer received in the original post about the purpose of this life is from God.
It is.
Ephesians 3:20 says that [God] "is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,"
& 1 Corinthians 2:10 says "the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."
The problem is that most churches don't even believe God still speaks, much less that He's willing to reveal the deep things to his people. So they teach the people not to ask, even though Paul said his intent (or God's intent) is that the church should understand even the workings of God at the level of angels, saying in Ephesians 3:10 "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,"
i was simply asking God as many hard questions as I could (taking him up on his offer to do exceeding abundantly ABOVE all that we ask or think). And when I ran out of hard questions to throw onto his lap, I tried to borrow hard questions from mankind and only could think of that one (What is the purpose of life?) So I asked it last. He waited about 30 seconds (so I'd recognize that I was done speaking) Then he spoke that answer to me: "The purpose of this life, is for man to CHOOSE.". (Not that we choose the purpose, but that the established purpose of this temporary situation is to allow choice(s) for mankind).
You're not FAR off in thinking of it as a simulation, but it's not. It's quite real with eternal consequences... It's real but only temporary. Once the choices have been made, this situation (including he heavens and the earth) get burned up and replaced by an eternal situation (a new heaven and a new earth)
2 Peter 3:10 KJV
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
i gotta run for now but thanks for your comments. I also much appreciate that you made sure to include salvation (as you understand it) in your posting. That tells me you have your priorities straight.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Ephesians 3:20 says that [God] "is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,"
& 1 Corinthians 2:10 says "the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."
The problem is that most churches don't even believe God still speaks, much less that He's willing to reveal the deep things to his people. So they teach the people not to ask, even though Paul said his intent (or God's intent) is that the church should understand even the workings of God at the level of angels, saying in Ephesians 3:10 "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,"
i was simply asking God as many hard questions as I could (taking him up on his offer to do exceeding abundantly ABOVE all that we ask or think). And when I ran out of hard questions to throw onto his lap, I tried to borrow hard questions from mankind and only could think of that one (What is the purpose of life?) So I asked it last. He waited about 30 seconds (so I'd recognize that I was done speaking) Then he spoke that answer to me: "The purpose of this life, is for man to CHOOSE.". (Not that we choose the purpose, but that the established purpose of this temporary situation is to allow choice(s) for mankind).
You're not FAR off in thinking of it as a simulation, but it's not. It's quite real with eternal consequences... It's real but only temporary. Once the choices have been made, this situation (including he heavens and the earth) get burned up and replaced by an eternal situation (a new heaven and a new earth)
2 Peter 3:10 KJV
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
i gotta run for now but thanks for your comments. I also much appreciate that you made sure to include salvation (as you understand it) in your posting. That tells me you have your priorities straight.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
What I mean is real life is life with God. This short life/vapor is a big "separate the wheat from the chaff" operation. Even humans put people through simulations to see who has the right stuff and a select few will live the real life of an aviator or astronaut. Lucky for us His yoke is easy.
I can see the Holy Spirit acting in you sharing the love and knowledge of Jesus. Many threads I'm afraid have people full of pride to be right and all too happy to push others down in the process.
I can see the Holy Spirit acting in you sharing the love and knowledge of Jesus. Many threads I'm afraid have people full of pride to be right and all too happy to push others down in the process.
Thanks for the nice words.
I have been given a good measure of wisdom because he's taught me from a child how to seek his face and pray successfully.
That's not being said lightly. God has taught me directly (meaning directly speaking to me and helping me ask questions the correct way) and has taught me some seriously big stuff, and I often wonder how I was accounted worthy of it.
Sharing that knowledge and ability is indeed something in my heart to do.
However, I feel I suffer from being inclined towards pride, desire for self-recognition and the desire to see myself as better than others. (Among other flaws)
Also, even if those flaws aren't present there is still the difficulty of trying to convey deeper truth when/where people don't actually realize they've been deceived, or are lacking, or don't/can't see that what they believe was taught by man (because if God himself is not the one that told them what something means, they have by default been given the understanding by man. And that understanding can be WRONG even though it seems right).
I tell you that now because you still see the good in me, and I haven't yet pointed to something wrong in your belief system.
Gotta go for now. Thanks again for your replies.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I have been given a good measure of wisdom because he's taught me from a child how to seek his face and pray successfully.
That's not being said lightly. God has taught me directly (meaning directly speaking to me and helping me ask questions the correct way) and has taught me some seriously big stuff, and I often wonder how I was accounted worthy of it.
Sharing that knowledge and ability is indeed something in my heart to do.
However, I feel I suffer from being inclined towards pride, desire for self-recognition and the desire to see myself as better than others. (Among other flaws)
Also, even if those flaws aren't present there is still the difficulty of trying to convey deeper truth when/where people don't actually realize they've been deceived, or are lacking, or don't/can't see that what they believe was taught by man (because if God himself is not the one that told them what something means, they have by default been given the understanding by man. And that understanding can be WRONG even though it seems right).
I tell you that now because you still see the good in me, and I haven't yet pointed to something wrong in your belief system.
Gotta go for now. Thanks again for your replies.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby