The Rapture Thief Robs Jesuit Futurism Of The 7 Years Of Tribulation

[Absolutely]

You have to pretend that you do not fully understand things,
Can this prove your wisdom and cleverness
as Jesus said :Mat 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
Let's figure out what's going on right now
the second coming just start and no one cares
Yes,Pot meet kettle.that's what I want to say.

Nobody knows what your doctrine is.

All we know is you think you are correct.

Try laying out your deal first.

 

[Absolutely]

Bride/Jews?

You have two separate groups, God is concerned with one group, (The Church) where there is neither Jew nor Gentile

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) that you espouse is 100% false teaching.

Oh I forgot you are Pauline only and non Pauline books are basically batting the air.

 

[soberxp]

Nobody knows what your doctrine is.

All we know is you think you are correct.

Try laying out your deal first.

I only hold the bible.
I'm just a sinner who confesses to Jesus. At that time I didn't even finish reading the Bible, I didn't even understand the second coming of Jesus, but things were so strange,God let me saw the second coming of Jesus when I didn't understand,
I have no other motive,I'm not an elder or a leader of any sect.
I just came to here to told you that Jesus has come.
Or I won't be here

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

TheDivineWatermark said: Okay, but I was speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"
So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:
This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).

The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see. (the "pit" is equivalent to "death / the grave," see).

"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL," [Rev20:5]... see [they go to or remain in the "pit" [i.e. DEATH and HADES] UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED")]

What point are you trying to prove?

Scripture teaches all that die are waiting the final last day resurrection and final judgement at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

It's almost like you did not carefully examine the verses I had supplied before you "blanketly agreed" with what they say (even though you do not actually agree ).

Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (and Isaiah 24:21-22a) speak about the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth (the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words in the Isa verses). The [unsaved] people DIE (v.21 of Rev19 "the remnant were SLAIN", and the "pit" / "prison" wording in Isa).

Rev19 says, "and the REMNANT were SLAIN" (they DIE)... this is the FIRST "PUNISH" word in Isa24:21-22a, having to do with the "pit" i.e. DEATH / HADES... but this is not yet the "cast into the lake of fire" thing, BECAUSE...


...BECAUSE of what Revelation 20:5 says (the other verse in that section I had supplied that is at His Second Coming to the earth point in time, to which you said you agree)...Revelation 20:5 uses the SAME WORD that Rev19:21 had just said, "the remnant - G3062 - loipoi [were SLAIN--(they DIED)]"... note that Rev20:5 goes on to say (of those ALSO who had been "SLAIN" at that point [they DIED and went to "THE PIT," i.e. hades / death, per Isa24:21-22a (not yet "cast into the lake of fire")]), [Rev20:5] says, "THE REST - G3062 - loipoi [of the dead lived not again UNTIL the thousand years shall have been COMPLETED]"

(recall, that this time-slot we've been covering is at the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19... BOTH PASSAGES AGREE that there are "many days" which FOLLOW that point in time before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words of Isa24:22b is carried out (i.e. the GWTj, after "death and hades delivered up THE DEAD which were IN them"... and the "cast into the lake of fire" final carrying out of the sentence takes place--See the SEQUENCE that Scripture itself has provided?)



Try to deeply consider what it is that Scripture itself is conveying, here, about the SEQUENCE.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Truth7t7 said:
Bride/Jews?
You have two separate groups, God is concerned with one group, (The Church) where there is neither Jew nor Gentile
Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) that you espouse is 100% false teaching.

Oh I forgot you are Pauline only and non Pauline books are basically batting the air.

No he isn't.

From what I can tell from what he said here (if you read it and discern carefully), is that he does not distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]". The ones YOU are referencing do not do this (what he is doing). Instead, they DO distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]" (as do I... and others who also hold to the "pre-trib" doctrine, those who say that God DOES have future plans for "Israel" in His scheme of things. )

 

[Absolutely]

No he isn't.

From what I can tell from what he said here (if you read it and discern carefully), is that he does not distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]". The ones YOU are referencing do not do this (what he is doing). Instead, they DO distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]" (as do I... and others who also hold to the "pre-trib" doctrine, those who say that God DOES have future plans for "Israel" in His scheme of things. )

No he isn't.

From what I can tell from what he said here (if you read it and discern carefully), is that he does not distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]". The ones YOU are referencing do not do this (what he is doing). Instead, they DO distinguish between "Israel" and "the Church [which is His body]" (as do I... and others who also hold to the "pre-trib" doctrine, those who say that God DOES have future plans for "Israel" in His scheme of things. )

 

[GaryA]

We step out of this tent and transition out of this physical realm and step into the spiritual realm, body and all.

Are you telling me that every time I have been to a funeral, and could see the body in the casket - it was a lost person?!?!

You might want to rethink that a little...

(Or, do you mean that the person "steps out of" the old 'physical' body and "steps into" a new 'spiritual' body that is "waiting for them on the other side", leaving the old body behind?)

 

[Phoneman-777]

rev 19 Jesus returns TO EARTH BEFORE THE 1K REIGN.

There is no second rapture to heaven for a 1k yr anything

Exactly. Jesus returns to Earth in the Second Coming to collect the saints, relieve the wicked of their breath of life, and we all return to heaven to live and reign with Jesus for 1,000 years, after which New Jerusalem is transported to Earth for it's new home and then the wicked are dealt with.

 

[Phoneman-777]

nope
white horses are going to earth WITH THE SAINTS.

so,"before the flood" (pretrib) the whit horses come down from heaven????

Before sodom is destroyed ...the white horses come down from heaven?????
You guys over and over omit verses and just make up bizarre cofigurations.
What a mish mash of poorly applied events.

thanks guys for showcasing the impossibility of the second coming and rapture being the same event.

No, Jesus' First Coming was as a Lamb for the slaughter to pay for the sins of the world, but His Second Coming takes place when He removes His High Priestly robes and dons His kingly robes, mounts His White Horse and returns not as a meek Lamb, but as a Conquering King.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Revelation 16, 19, & 20 below are showing the exact same (Final Battle) in parallel teachings, the book of Revelations isn't taught in chronological order as dispensationalism (Falsely Teaches)

Your presentation of Revelation 19 with Jesus Christ returning on the white horse to battle, is nothing more than the (Second Coming) end of this world in final judgement in the lake of fire, same lake of fire and final judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15 below in a (Parallel Teaching)

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Revelation 19:11-21-KJV
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Revelation 20:7-15KJV
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I keep trying to explain to him that the mindset of the Hebrew is not like that of the Westerner. In the West, a story ramps up and builds to a climax, followed by a conclusion then done....but Hebrew story telling looks more like a Bell Graph, where the climax comes AT THE MIDDLE, followed by a RE-TELLING of the story, where the same elements are repeated with more details. Also, in the West we rhyme words, but in Hebrew Chiastic Structure, the Hebrews rhymed IDEAS:

"By the word of the Lord were heavens made,
and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.

For He spake and it was done;
He commanded and it stood fast."

Ripping the 70 Weeks out of the past and sending it down to the end of time, reading Revelation in chronological order...all this DESTROYS the Chiasms. But, no matter what you say, people are going to make the Bible say whatever they want to.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Sure it is ('The Last Day')... the thing is, it just is not merely "a singular 24-hr day"


...but a time period of long duration, with MUCH transpiring within it.


["IN the last day"... but do not neglect to recall 1Cor15:23 "[re: resurrection] but each IN THE OWN ORDER" (which means there doesn't remain only ONE at a singular point in time... "Blessed and holy is the one having A PART in the first resurrection!" Rev20:6a; James 1:18 "having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures [/creation]." )]




[Hosea 5:14 - 6:3 (re: Israel [i.e. Israel's future], per context) "after TWO days" and "IN the THIRD day" ... Peter says we are to "be not ignorant OF THIS ONE THING" ]


Revelation 5:9 (present IN HEAVEN before the FIRST SEAL is opened when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE"):
"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of [ek] every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
[see also the two distinct verb-words in 1Cor6:14]



[biblical precedent: Enoch (ONE MAN) taken out of this world BEFORE the flood JUDGMENT fell/unfolded upon the earth]

I don't buy into this idea that the "last day" is an extended period of dealing with the wicked. I'm pretty sure God is capable of doling out justice swiftly. As I've stated over and over, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV plainly says that when Jesus comes a a thief in the night, life on Earth will simply not be sustainable. There's nothing anyone can do with that verse to change it. It's better to abandon Jesuit Futurism and embrace Protestant
Historicism.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Comparing the following two passages (if you will do this... but that remains to be seen, if you actually will) is what proves that "the last day" does NOT consist merely of "a singular 24-hr day" but is instead made up of "many" of those:

Compare the texts:


the following two passages correlate, time-wise (in the following way)...

--Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth), correlates with

--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22a[23] ("shall PUNISH...gathered in the pit... shut up in the prison");





Then (these correlate, time-wise, also),

--the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:[21-]22b[23] ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED"), correlates with

--Revelation 20:11-15 (the later GWTj point-in-time, for all of the "dead [/unsaved]" of all times, as well as these particular ones being spoken of, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 yrs were concluded"--[i.e. the GWTj=the final carrying out of the sentence])

Does not the Bible say that a man cannot stand in the sight of God and live unless that man puts on immortality? It is why at His Second Coming, Jesus will "destroy with the brightness of His coming". The Second Coming will see the wicked drop dead all over the Earth, as Jeremiah says so, and there they will rot for 1,000 years while the righteous give their stamp of approval of God's judgment of them, after which New Jerusalem comes down, they are resurrected, judged, sentenced, and cast into the Lake of Fire. It really doesn't require more than a day to do so.

 

[GaryA]

Gary,

please try to read all of this as I have hope you can understand it.

I understand what you are saying; however, I am inclined to believe that - in several places in the scriptures, when God describes an event with many of those same 'details' about "the destruction of heaven and earth" - He is talking about the same event in all of those places - His 'vengeance' at the Second Coming of Christ. (I know it does not look that way "on the surface"; you have to read it very carefully.)

The same kind of 'imagery' and 'dialog' are in several places - but, are all actually referring to the same event and time.

And, if you see the phrase "day of the Lord" in the passage - then, you [may] know for sure that it is referring to that same event.

 

[Truth7t7]

Does not the Bible say that a man cannot stand in the sight of God and live unless that man puts on immortality? It is why at His Second Coming, Jesus will "destroy with the brightness of His coming". The Second Coming will see the wicked drop dead all over the Earth, as Jeremiah says so, and there they will rot for 1,000 years while the righteous give their stamp of approval of God's judgment of them, after which New Jerusalem comes down, they are resurrected, judged, sentenced, and cast into the Lake of Fire. It really doesn't require more than a day to do so.

7th Day Adventism, Ellen G. Whites (Investigative Judgement) is a false teaching.

The great disappointment of 1844, in the false prediction of the (Second Coming) turned in the false teaching of (The Investigative Judgement)

Can't learn from the first wrong, gonna make it a double wrong

Ellen G. White, A False Prophetess

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't buy into this idea that the "last day" is an extended period of dealing with the wicked. I'm pretty sure God is capable of doling out justice swiftly. As I've stated over and over, 2 Peter 3:10 KJV plainly says that when Jesus comes a a thief in the night, life on Earth will simply not be sustainable. There's nothing anyone can do with that verse to change it. It's better to abandon Jesuit Futurism and embrace Protestant
Historicism.

Life On Earth Won't Be Sustainable?

The Earth Is Dissolved By The Lord's Fire In Judgement At His Return!

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, Jesus' First Coming was as a Lamb for the slaughter to pay for the sins of the world, but His Second Coming takes place when He removes His High Priestly robes and dons His kingly robes, mounts His White Horse and returns not as a meek Lamb, but as a Conquering King.

Return As Righteous Judge!

In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Heavens And Earth By His Fire!

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Truth7t7]

Exactly. Jesus returns to Earth in the Second Coming to collect the saints, relieve the wicked of their breath of life, and we all return to heaven to live and reign with Jesus for 1,000 years, after which New Jerusalem is transported to Earth for it's new home and then the wicked are dealt with.

7th Day Adventism Ellen G. Whites (Investigative Judgement) Is A (False) Teaching.

Ellen G. White Is A False Prophetess

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving The Existing Heavens And Earth By Fire, As The New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem Are Revealed For Eternity.

 

[Truth7t7]

Are you telling me that every time I have been to a funeral, and could see the body in the casket - it was a lost person?!?!

You might want to rethink that a little...

(Or, do you mean that the person "steps out of" the old 'physical' body and "steps into" a new 'spiritual' body that is "waiting for them on the other side", leaving the old body behind?)

I believe this poster denies a future second coming of Jesus Christ and glorified bodily resurrection of the believer?

 

[GaryA]

I believe this poster denies a future second coming of Jesus Christ and glorified bodily resurrection of the believer?

I am guessing you are actually referring to @PlainWord?

 

[Truth7t7]

I am guessing you are actually referring to @PlainWord rather than me?

Yes I was referring to Plainword