How many weeks was Daniel told his people were to be given in CH 9? How many years was that? What was to happens at the end of Dan 9 when the people didn't make an end of sins? They were destroyed by fire and left desolate. This happened in 70 AD. Revelation was the unsealing of the things Daniel sealed and reserved to the end (of their nation).
The Rapture
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Oh my gosh. I didn't know how far off the deep end you are. We are in the millennium???? Jesus would be on the throne ruling earth directly from the throne on Mount Zion. He is supposed to be visible to the world ruling it with his elders. When did this visible Jesus ascend the throne??
You also ignore that Daniel says his book is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way. Your eschatology is wacko.
You also ignore that Daniel says his book is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way. Your eschatology is wacko.
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I doubt anything I can say will give you pause and make you reconsider your position. Jesus never returns visibly to the earth to reign from a man-made building. If you think this you are ignoring half of Paul's teachings and a good chuck of Christ's teachings. Christ is not coming back as a man and if He were to come back visibly as the fully glorified Son of God, all mortals would go blind.
FYI, Daniel does not say, "end times" he says "end" and he means the end of Israel, not the planet earth. Do you have a Daniel passage saying the earth is going to be gone?
FYI, Daniel does not say, "end times" he says "end" and he means the end of Israel, not the planet earth. Do you have a Daniel passage saying the earth is going to be gone?
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The truth as I see it is that the events of AD70 were a judgement on Israel as a nation and was predicted by Christ throughout the Gospels. This is clear by his warnings both in his open condemnations and the Parables he used. Anyone who fails to see this is as blind as the Jewish leadership he condemned back then. That Judgement brought an end to the OT age. Where Full Preterists have it wrong is that there is still a second coming and a Judgement Day ahead. The Bible applies Types Shadows and Symbols throughout to explain it all to us. They are used over and over again. The events of AD70 are a type of the future Judgement on both Israel and the whole world.
There are no prophets predicting the end of planet Earth. However, there are some bad translations that might lead one to believe this. For instance "earth" can also be translated "land" and land most frequently applies to Israel. It was Israel coming to an end, not the entire planet.
As for the reign of Messiah, His kingdom is here now and we are all in it!!! Please study the nature of His Kingdom, it comes without observation. It rules over our minds and consciences. It convicts sinners of sin and gives power to the believer. How do you think 1/3 of our planet came to believe in Jesus? This was no accident. Far too often far too many people do not think in the spirit but live in the flesh often missing the most powerful and incredible spiritual things. Not saying this about you.
Christ returned in 70 AD and His presence was recorded. He dashed the toes of King Neb's statue and set in motion the spiritual overthrow of Satan's kingdoms. You see Rome was pagan, it's Caesars claimed to be God. The toes of this statue were made partly of iron (Rome) and partly of clay (Jews). But these two cannot adhere to each other. Symbolically Christ, the stone, smashed the toes, driving away "Judaism" and paganism. By 300 AD, the Roman Empire, which they called "the known world" was majority Christian, nearly 60%. Think about that and let it sink in what has already happened.
As for the reign of Messiah, His kingdom is here now and we are all in it!!! Please study the nature of His Kingdom, it comes without observation. It rules over our minds and consciences. It convicts sinners of sin and gives power to the believer. How do you think 1/3 of our planet came to believe in Jesus? This was no accident. Far too often far too many people do not think in the spirit but live in the flesh often missing the most powerful and incredible spiritual things. Not saying this about you.
Christ returned in 70 AD and His presence was recorded. He dashed the toes of King Neb's statue and set in motion the spiritual overthrow of Satan's kingdoms. You see Rome was pagan, it's Caesars claimed to be God. The toes of this statue were made partly of iron (Rome) and partly of clay (Jews). But these two cannot adhere to each other. Symbolically Christ, the stone, smashed the toes, driving away "Judaism" and paganism. By 300 AD, the Roman Empire, which they called "the known world" was majority Christian, nearly 60%. Think about that and let it sink in what has already happened.
Liked a lot of what you said. Got to run, but will return to this. There is no future prediction of another return of Christ. Not ruling it out, we just don't have anything to tell us this. The judgment that fell on Israel in 70 AD was done under the guidance and presence (parousia) of Christ. He warned them over and over what was coming, didn't He? He didn't just sit up in Heaven as a quiet observer. He was very active in the overthrow of Israel using pagan Rome just as God did several times in the OT.
Here is what Jesus said. I believe him over you any day. Explain away what Jesus said about his return in verse 30. Go back and adjust your thinking to be in compliance with what Jesus said about his return being seen by the whole world!!! Also the tribulation time when all life on earth was close to extermination!!
Matthew 24 NIV Return of Jesus
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24 NIV Return of Jesus
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
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The 5 minute rule that the administrator loves is stupid since other forums use a much more reasonable 15 minute rule. It appears like this administrator is on a power trip. He fails to acknowledge that this site has issues with an android system with a Chrome browser using the SwiftKey keyboard. I get words doubled up like wordword. Then I have to correct the ones I didn't catch Another issue is an extra blank line when I create a single one. Then when fixing these things the 5 minute rule kills my corrections.
I don't reject what Isaiah or Matthew say. I reject what you say!!
The passage from Isaiah that you cited was fulfilled when Babylon conquered Judah in the 6th century BC, less than 100 years after he predicted it. There have been two completed and total desolations of Israel/Judah one in 597 BC one in 70 AD. Isaiah spoke of those. He did not skip over them to address some future (to us) desolation thousands of years later.
In Matthew, Jesus foretells of the 70 AD desolation which was to come within 40 years to THAT generation. He doesn't skip over it thousands of years to address some future desolation. He starts off telling the disciples that the temple was going to be destroyed with not one stone left on top of another. The disciples asked when that was going to happen and He gives them the signs leading up to it. Every sign He gave happened prior to the destruction of the temple and desolation of Jerusalem.
You simply do not know history and likely never studied this period of time. I am not calling Christ a liar, I'm saying He kept His Word and returned in that generation just as He said He would.
The passage from Isaiah that you cited was fulfilled when Babylon conquered Judah in the 6th century BC, less than 100 years after he predicted it. There have been two completed and total desolations of Israel/Judah one in 597 BC one in 70 AD. Isaiah spoke of those. He did not skip over them to address some future (to us) desolation thousands of years later.
In Matthew, Jesus foretells of the 70 AD desolation which was to come within 40 years to THAT generation. He doesn't skip over it thousands of years to address some future desolation. He starts off telling the disciples that the temple was going to be destroyed with not one stone left on top of another. The disciples asked when that was going to happen and He gives them the signs leading up to it. Every sign He gave happened prior to the destruction of the temple and desolation of Jerusalem.
You simply do not know history and likely never studied this period of time. I am not calling Christ a liar, I'm saying He kept His Word and returned in that generation just as He said He would.
This was 100% fulfilled in the first century. What does He say in verse 34. Which generation do you think He was talking about, ours????? LOL. He was talking to them was He not??? What does He say in verse 9??? "you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death" Where the disciples persecuted and put to death or weren't they?
What does verse 11 say?? "...and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."
Were there false prophets deceiving people leading up to their final destruction in 70 AD or not? Do you think Josephus made it up? Josephus says:
A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day...Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people..Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation.
Study a little history End, you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of historical knowledge and ability to apply said history to Biblical predictions. Do a little reading my friend and stop relying on the ill informed who also didn't study history and instead developed biases from man rather than understanding the Word of God.
What does verse 11 say?? "...and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."
Were there false prophets deceiving people leading up to their final destruction in 70 AD or not? Do you think Josephus made it up? Josephus says:
A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day...Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people..Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation.
Study a little history End, you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of historical knowledge and ability to apply said history to Biblical predictions. Do a little reading my friend and stop relying on the ill informed who also didn't study history and instead developed biases from man rather than understanding the Word of God.
You really have no concept of spiritual in-dwelling of God, His Son and the HS, do you?? This is one of the problems in the church today - they put people in positions of authority who do not understand even the most basic spiritual concepts. Do you think God sits in heaven, hands-off, watching His creation do all sorts of things without punishing or rewarding them? Does He reign over us at all or are we all alone?
What does the Psalmist say?
Ps 74:2: Remember Your congregation, which You have purchased of old, The tribe of Your inheritance, which You have redeemed—This Mount Zion where You have dwelt.
Was this dwelling past tense or future tense? Did God literally dwell on Mt Zion back then??? HUH???
What does the Psalmist say?
Ps 74:2: Remember Your congregation, which You have purchased of old, The tribe of Your inheritance, which You have redeemed—This Mount Zion where You have dwelt.
Was this dwelling past tense or future tense? Did God literally dwell on Mt Zion back then??? HUH???
You keep ignoring verses 30 and 31 of the quoted text.
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
It is obvious you ignore that Jesus said the whole world would see his return and not be just a spirit world event.
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
It is obvious you ignore that Jesus said the whole world would see his return and not be just a spirit world event.
You have your own ideas and bend the prophesies to fit that idea rather than the other way around. Most if not all the prophets told of the end of the earth.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.
Good post PL - although I would add Isaiah to the forming of "heaven and earth" of the Mosaic age:
Isa 51:15 “For I am the LORD your God, who stirs up the sea and its waves roar (the LORD of hosts is His name).
Isa 51:16 “I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”
Isa 51:15 “For I am the LORD your God, who stirs up the sea and its waves roar (the LORD of hosts is His name).
Isa 51:16 “I have put My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand, to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”
To understand any issue in the Bible you absolutely must take into consideration ALL sections of the Bible dealing with the issue. This seems to be your blind spot. You need to get a copy of one of the systematic theology books. They are big and go issue by issue listing ALL verses dealing with the issue. That way you won't make foolish assertions like Jesus only coming back in the spirit world when Jesus plainly stated that all earth will see His return.
All scripture on an issue not cherry picked verses that fit your paradigm. All verses on any issue should drive your paradigm instead of forcing the Bible to fit you're beliefs.
All scripture on an issue not cherry picked verses that fit your paradigm. All verses on any issue should drive your paradigm instead of forcing the Bible to fit you're beliefs.
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