The Real Christmas story

[Blain]

No not the beloved film where the ever so popular you'll shoot your eye out kid phrase comes from, I mean the real Christmas story the one of hope the one of salvation the one where the angels were singing and the humble humbled themselves before a babe that was a king.

Christmas is said to be pagan but isn't it's original roots to celebrate the birth of our king? Obviously it's impossible to know his actual Birth day but isn't Christmas about his birth? True enough santa clause has become the Christmas icon and to many it's far more about the presents but maybe I'm just weird because when december comes a round as I am walking at night and I see the Christmas lights I can just feel the Christmas spirit.

Not a spirit of presents or anything but a spirit of hope of joy of peace, so if Christmas is pagan then whose spirit is it that overwhelms me at Christmas time?

 

[Magenta]

It is interesting that though the holiday has largely become a secular commercial money grab, there is no denying that it is still about the incarnation of Christ into the world.

 

[crossnote]

Christmas?
We haven't even gotten to Thanksgiving yet.

Colossians 3:15 (KJV) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

 

[Blain]

Christmas?
We haven't even gotten to Thanksgiving yet.

Colossians 3:15 (KJV) And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

This is true I just wanted to know why Christmas is pagan because while it is not here yet it's right around the corner
btw props on posting a thanksgiving scripture well done

 

[crossnote]

Christmas in itself is not pagan. The way some observe it is pagan though...

 

[sparkman]

No not the beloved film where the ever so popular you'll shoot your eye out kid phrase comes from, I mean the real Christmas story the one of hope the one of salvation the one where the angels were singing and the humble humbled themselves before a babe that was a king.

Christmas is said to be pagan but isn't it's original roots to celebrate the birth of our king? Obviously it's impossible to know his actual Birth day but isn't Christmas about his birth? True enough santa clause has become the Christmas icon and to many it's far more about the presents but maybe I'm just weird because when december comes a round as I am walking at night and I see the Christmas lights I can just feel the Christmas spirit.

Not a spirit of presents or anything but a spirit of hope of joy of peace, so if Christmas is pagan then whose spirit is it that overwhelms me at Christmas time?

Regarding this, I'd suggest the book Christmas Reconsidered by Ralph Woodrow. Ralph took a hardline stance against Christmas for the typical "pagan" associations and then recanted his position later on.

It all comes down to a matter of individual conscience. There are Christians who hold the view that Christmas is undeniably pagan, and there are those that don't. Each person should study the issue and decide themselves.

Some people look for paganism in every nook and cranny...I wonder if they spend as much time paying attention to the teachings about how we are to treat others. I imagine some of those who don't observe Christmas are equally attuned to these teachings regarding how to treat others, but I suspect many are not. This reminds me of Matthew 23 where Christ used the analogy of the Pharisees straining gnats but swallowing camels.

You can find "paganism" in everything if you approach it from the conspiracy theory mentality. For instance wedding bands supposedly have a pagan association..and I know some Christian organizations teach against wearing them.

I also wonder if the Christmas and Easter issues are much like meats sacrificed to idols. Christians were able to eat such meat with no conscience issues. Just like the meat had a previous pagan association, so do these holidays, but no Christian today uses the symbols behind these customs to worship pagan gods.

By the way, Jeremiah 10 does not refer to a Christmas tree, despite how it sounds..it refers to an idol and those who use this to "prove" that Christmas trees are pagan are really displaying their folly.

 

[tik]

Christmas is said to be pagan...

There used to be a pagan festival on 25[SUP]th[/SUP] of December. This festival got replaced by Christmas

There also used to be a pagan festival on 31[SUP]st[/SUP] of October (Halloween). In the 800s A.D., the church established “All Saints' Day” on November 1.

The Catholic Church would often replace a Pagan Festival with some Christian Celebration. They did it on purpose

Unfortunately some people are misinformed about Catholic Church and still cannot understand why Catholic Church would replace a pagan festival with Christian celebration

 

[tik]

Every Christmas you’ll notice the obese cola-chugging, cookie-chomping fat man, who commits breaking-and-entering offences across the world, organized from his crime syndicate Headquarters in the tax-exempt North Pole, where he keeps little people with pointy ears enslaved in his sweatshop to make cheap merchandise for Toys-R-Us.

But behind this jolly chubby man, with all that marketing blitz and gift-buying frenzy, lies profound mystery

 

[Reborn]

But behind this jolly chubby man, with all that marketing blitz and gift-buying frenzy, lies profound mystery

Recently I went to a mall and saw Santa, it didn't have what l needed so l left that mall and went to another mall.

Where l saw Santa again.

I asked him how he got there so fast.
He told me he drove a '94 Toyota Tacoma.


The guy has a truck.....there's no mystery at all.

 

[tik]

The guy has a truck.....there's no mystery at all.

haha……

Christmas symbolizes Christianity. For any atheist secular historian who doesn’t believe in God, Angels, Ghosts and so on, there are profound mysteries surrounding the origin of Christianity

Let me give you one…

It is a common knowledge that Jewish man named James, the brother of Jesus, became the central leader in Jerusalem in the mid-century CE. As James was not one of the twelve disciples of Jesus during his lifetime it is difficult to account for his centrality and unrivalled leadership in Jerusalem. From Josephus, the Jewish historian, we learn that James was stoned to death. Many of us have brothers. What would it take to make you believe that your brother is the Lord, so that you would die for this belief, as James did?

Even the sceptical New Testament critic Hans Grass admits that the conversion of James is quite remarkable. In one of the ancient sources we find this statement “...then he appeared to James...” Could this be something to do with James conversion?

 

[KohenMatt]

While I'm completely anti-christmas......

I can be OK with those who genuinely worship God and celebrate Jesus' birth (although I maintain it's the wrong day to do so. It would be best to celebrate His birth closer to His actual birthday.)
I can also be OK with those who celebrate christmas as a completely secular and tradition-filled season.

What I completely disagree with is the combining of the 2 into one day where both are tied together.

 

[oldthennew]

anything that is (((((BASED upon a LIE or DECEPTION)))), especially when it concerns our babies -
and what is put into their brains as small and growing precious, moldable children, we must take pause
and recognize the deceit that satan's world is propagating and confess our complacency to
peer pressure....

did I go along with this most preposterous Deciet??? YES, for a while - I am my father's and mother's child,
hence, I MUST go along with the TRADITIONS OF MEN??!!??

as it is written,
'In VAIN do they worship Me.

MATT.15:9.
But in vain they do worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

here's the 'kissing cousin' = mardi-gras' - from marduke - god of Babylon.....
fat-tuesday' - reveling, fornicating, drunkenness, and worshipping devils....
ash-wednesday' = solemn repentance for 'fat-tuesday' it is so preposterous and wicked...
then you have 40days of 'lent', where is this in scripture>>!??!!
then you have maunday thorsday', they are worshipping 'thor' -
then you have 'good Friday, or fricca' - a goddess -
and then you have the 'blessed easter' - which is connected to all of the wickedness!!??!!?
and everybody swallows the LIE//!!??? HOOK LINE and SINKER...???!!!!???......

 

[VioletReigns]

Christmas didn't come to the ghetto when my siblings & I were little. It was humiliating and very sad to know that Santa didn't visit dirty, poor children. But when we were placed in foster care, I was amazingly happy to hear our foster parents tell us Santa Claus was gonna bring us gifts on Christmas eve!! We had a beautifully decorated blue spruce Christmas tree, the snow was coming down, my foster mom played Christmas music on the stereo, we had food in our stomachs -- what a miraculous dream come true it was going to be, I thought!!! \/

Santa was coming!!!

Then one night right before Christmas I was babysitting for my foster parents and they came home with oodles of packages of toys. My foster mom said to me, "Don't tell your younger siblings that there's no Santa Claus, ok?" She must have noticed the shock on my face because she asked, "You DID know there was no Santa, right?" I was too embarrassed to admit that I did not know.... so I answered, "Yes... I knew that."

And I went to bed with a broken heart and my hopes shattered to pieces. No miracle of Christmas for me, no magic of Santa, no reason to listen for reindeer hooves on the rooftop..... DANG!!! What a kick in the teeth that was. I cried to sleep.

SOOOOOOO -- after I had three precious children of my own, I NEVER told them there was a Santa -- and I NEVER said there wasn't a Santa. They sat on his lap at the mall, had their Christmas picture taken with him, etc. But they thought Santa was a character just like any other story character, like Batman, Spiderman, Strawberry Shortcake, Ninja Turtles or Care Bears. They knew he wasn't real because I could never bring myself to lie to them and have them crushed like I was.

Instead, we made our own family traditions and created our own magic. We also didn't make it about buying tons of gifts. So my kids didn't get an overload of presents. We tied "gifts" we all made onto the tree for Jesus' birthday, we did caroling at several nursing homes in our community, we made bread & cookies to give out to our friends & family, we wrote and acted out plays in our livingroom about stories in the Bible, we played in the snow together, we did crafts & just made Christmas last as long as we could doing all kinds of fun family things.

 

[tik]

anything that is (((((BASED upon a LIE or DECEPTION))))

Santa Clause is not a lie

There was a real person Saint Nicholas, He was a Catholic. He had a reputation for secret gift-giving.

When he died pagans made god out of him and called him Santa Clause.

As you and others know very little about Catholicism and appear to be quite hostile towards Catholicism you are obviously unaware of it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok, Christmas as it was first established, was a catholic pegan ritual.

However. God has used this (as he does so many things which are evil in its origins) for his own Glory.

God is greater than the catholic church, or any man or mans way. Many people have come to Christ on Christmas day, because they were exposed to Gods great gift to mankind.

So why stop it? Why take a tool God can use away just because it may have had pagan origins. Funny how Paul said eating meat sacrificed to pagan gods was ok, as long as it did not sear your consciousness. Why are this way about other things.

 

[tik]

ok, Christmas as it was first established, was a catholic pagan ritual.

It's amazing how misinformed you are

There used to be a pagan festival on 25[SUP]th[/SUP] of December (before the birth of Christ). This pagan festival got replaced by celebration called "Christmas". Replaced by whom? By Catholic church.

There also used to be a pagan festival on 31[SUP]st[/SUP] of October (Halloween). In the 800s A.D., the Catholic church established “All Saints' Day” on November 1.

The Catholic Church would often replace a Pagan Festival with some Christian Celebration. They did it on purpose

People like you are misinformed about Catholic Church and still cannot understand why Catholic Church would replace a pagan festival with Christian celebration

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's amazing how misinformed you are

There used to be a pagan festival on 25[SUP]th[/SUP] of December (before the birth of Christ). This pagan festival got replaced by celebration called "Christmas". Replaced by whom? By Catholic church.

There also used to be a pagan festival on 31[SUP]st[/SUP] of October (Halloween). In the 800s A.D., the Catholic church established “All Saints' Day” on November 1.

The Catholic Church would often replace a Pagan Festival with some Christian Celebration. They did it on purpose

People like you are misinformed about Catholic Church and still cannot understand why Catholic Church would replace a pagan festival with Christian celebration

Thanks you just proved me right. by what you said.

There used to be a pagan festival on 25[SUP]th[/SUP] of December (before the birth of Christ). This pagan festival got replaced by celebration called "Christmas". Replaced by whom? By Catholic church.

 

[tik]

Thanks you just proved me right. by what you said.

People like you still cannot understand why something Pagan would be replaced by something Christian.
Can you not see the reason why Catholic Church would do something like that??
To demonstrate victory of Christ over paganism

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People like you still cannot understand why something Pagan would be replaced by something Christian.
Can you not see the reason why Catholic Church would do something like that??
To demonstrate victory of Christ over paganism

Nope.

Nice try, but not buying it, God never said to do this.

The catholic church is a pagan form of Christianity, So of course I understand why they did it.

and ps. You still proved me right..

 

[wwjd_kilden]

I don't understand what the two of you are arguing over when you both seem to agree

Anyway

As I live in Norway with cold and dark winters I love Christmas both because of Christ and because of the light and warmth and coziness that goes with it. Never got gifts from santa, they were from my cat instead