The Real Truth About Joseph Prince!

[Stephen63]

How does the Holy Spirit convict a believer and one no longer in the world?

I you ain't gonna read your Bible, I'm not tellin' ya 'cuz it would be a waste of time. That's what most hypergracers do when they start asking a bunch of questions..... to either steer you off course or start namecalling to start an argument.
BTW, when you call somebody a cobra venomspitter & then act like one, you're projecting.

Don't look now, but your narcissism is showing.

 

[notuptome]

well, here is the thing about this- I live in a college town, thousands of people 30 and under. many of them have no or little church background. so, to them, leading with a turn or burn message will turn- them off. leading with the grace and goodness of God gets them in the door, then they can learn truth.

we know that judgement and hell are real, many of them do not. so our thoughts are " do not be angry at them because they do not know truth" tell them truth with love, and understanding , not beat them with the hell stick. that sends them out the door and back to the world's lies with their beliefs about religion pushed by their athesits professors , being reinforced, not debunked.

Here's an example of what I mean by community outreach.

A family in our community had never attended church. One of our teenagers invited one of the children to our Wednesday night program. The parents were apprehensive, but agreed to let the child come. A couple of weeks later all of the children were in our program. This continued, our young adult class invited them, but they were not interested. They finally relented and came to the baptism (it took six months of prayer to get them to allow the baptism) of the oldest child. One Wednesday evening the mother stayed for the service. A few weeks later the father showed up. This happened about three years ago. Today that young family has accepted Christ and are an integral part of our program. As result of a young teenager believing what told us to do in the great commission, another family now lives for Christ, and the angels in heaven are rejoicing.

I will let those of you who believe that preaching hell fire and brimstone continue doing so. I would rather see people come to Christ, and enjoy the life that God has provided for them through the His son.

So do we do the leading or does the Holy Spirit? What are they getting saved from? Are they made part of the club or are they saved from eternal condemnation? Do we make them feel better about themselves or do we allow God to show them how rotten sin is in His presence?

Does our witness influence the culture or do we simply incorporate the culture into our witness? Is your Jesus the One who died on the cross to condemn sin or the One who just loves everybody just the way they are?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

well, here is the thing about this- I live in a college town, thousands of people 30 and under. many of them have no or little church background. so, to them, leading with a turn or burn message will turn- them off. leading with the grace and goodness of God gets them in the door, then they can learn truth.

we know that judgement and hell are real, many of them do not. so our thoughts are " do not be angry at them because they do not know truth" tell them truth with love, and understanding , not beat them with the hell stick. that sends them out the door and back to the world's lies with their beliefs about religion pushed by their athesits professors , being reinforced, not debunked.

Are you judging again what you don't know? Have you been in our churches? You need to get off your high horse 'cause you don't qualify to ride a 1 trick pony, LOL!

Dear readers, this is the typical hypergracer response to anything they don't agree with. It's judgmental, it's mocking, it's hateful to treat people like they're the worst thing the church has ever produced. But then again, they gotta look good, gotta win the argument, & the end justifies the means, yes? Step on others to climb the ladder of popularity & influence & get your "likes".

Don't expect the truth from them..... it limits their ability.

 

[Stephen63]

Joseph Prince teaches that believers should not confess their sins.mp4

[video=youtube;yYUKOtya_xs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUKOtya_xs[/video]

 

[eph610]

I you ain't gonna read your Bible, I'm not tellin' ya 'cuz it would be a waste of time. That's what most hypergracers do when they start asking a bunch of questions..... to either steer you off course or start namecalling to start an argument.
BTW, when you call somebody a cobra venomspitter & then act like one, you're projecting.

Don't look now, but your narcissism is showing.

John 16.8-11

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; [SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; [SUP]11 [/SUP]and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

 

[Stephen63]

Joseph Prince, Pastor of New Creation Church in Singapore, is becoming extremely popular in the Word of Faith movement. His popularity comes because of his teaching on grace. Even Word of Faith heretic Creflo Dollar seems to be jumping on the grace wagon lately.

The problem with Prince is not his teaching on grace. He teaches correctly that it is only the work of Christ on our behalf that saves, not our works. He also makes it clear that the Law has no power to to make us holy. However, there are huge theological problems with his teaching. The main problem is that he teaches the heretical Prosperity Gospel, mixing Word of Faith Theology with grace. The Prosperity Gospel is a false gospel. So even though Prince is clear when it comes to the work of Christ for sinners, he teaches that because of Christ's work, the sinner is not only forgiven, accepted and loved by God, but is entitled, and should pursue health, wealth, and prosperity. This is heresy. This is mixing the Word of Faith prosperity heresy with the gospel.
Long For Truth: 4 Theological Flaws of Joseph Prince

 

[eph610]

So do we do the leading or does the Holy Spirit? What are they getting saved from? Are they made part of the club or are they saved from eternal condemnation? Do we make them feel better about themselves or do we allow God to show them how rotten sin is in His presence?

Does our witness influence the culture or do we simply incorporate the culture into our witness? Is your Jesus the One who died on the cross to condemn sin or the One who just loves everybody just the way they are?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The methods change, not the message!

What we find is when they come into truth, the truth sets them free and they are grateful we never compromised the message...

We see godly sorrow and repentance leading to salvation, not sorrow of the world leading to death....

The Holy Ghost 's job is to bring them to the truth....he always leads by the Goodness & mercy of God, not mans proclamation of turn or burn....once they are new creations in Christ Jesus, we put them into truth classes.....

Preaching to a sinner agaisnt something is easy and is striving after wind and vanity[futility], preaching to a sinner about change is hard and is Spirit and life....

Preaching to a saint against something is striving after wind and vanity[futility], preaching to a saint how to live with and for Jesus is spirit and life...

 

[Stephen63]

1. The problem with repentance

In his book Destined to Reign Prince says this about repentance
"For all of you who feel that there should be more preaching on repentance, do you know what the word ‘repent' means in the first place? The word ‘repent' is the Greek word matanoeo, which according to Thayer's Greek Lexicon, simply means ‘to change one's mind.' But because we have been influenced by our denominational background as well as our own religious upbringing, many of us have the impression that repentance is something that involves mourning and sorrow. However, that is not what the Word of God says. Repentance just means changing your mind."
Prince is not being honest with the Greek word metanoeo. Here are the Strong's definitions of the word
Greek Definition
g3341. μετάνοια metanoia; from 3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication, reversal (of (another's) decision): — repentance.AV (24) - repentance 24;a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
Notice the word compunction in the definition. Here is the English definition for compunction:
Webster -Compunction: a feeling of guilt or regret ( chiefly US)
Full Definition
1 a : anxiety arising from awareness of guilt b : distress of mind over an anticipated action or result 2 : a twinge of misgiving : scruple synonyms see penitence, qualm com·punc·tious -shəs adjective
So, to repent does not just simply mean "to change ones mind." There is much more to it than that. The word that Prince used in his above statement makes this even more clear.
Repent: metanoeo: "to think differently or afterwards to reconsider (morally feel compunction) To change ones mind. To change ones mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of ones past sins."
As you can see, this definition means more than simply "to change ones mind.

 

[notuptome]

The methods change, not the message!

Seems that the messengers have changed. No longer distinguishable from the culture.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stephen63]

cont.....
How did Christ define the Gospel?

Luke 24:45-47 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Christ makes it clear that repentance and the forgiveness of sins is to be preached. In other words, we must preach Law and Gospel. No one can be saved without repentance. A gospel without repentance is no gospel at all.

 

[mikeys4grace]

cont.....
How did Christ define the Gospel?

Luke 24:45-47 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Christ makes it clear that repentance and the forgiveness of sins is to be preached. In other words, we must preach Law and Gospel. No one can be saved without repentance. A gospel without repentance is no gospel at all.

Is there someone on this site who preaches a gospel without repentance?

 

[FlSnookman7]

Joseph Prince teaches that believers should not confess their sins.mp4

[video=youtube;yYUKOtya_xs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUKOtya_xs[/video]

So because you dislike the man you lie about what he says? I watched a video posted on this site yesterday where Mr Prince stated he believes in confession. It's kinda funny because that is the 1st video by him I watched all the way through. Since we know who the lord of lies is maybe you better check yourself.

 

[Billyd]

Seems that the messengers have changed. No longer distinguishable from the culture.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger you're right. The messengers have changed. They are the same messenger with the same message. They have changed the way that the same message is presented. We are taking the message to people who's only contact with the Gospel is a secular world that has convinced them that there is no God, and Christians are Bible thumping holy rollers.

1 Corithians 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 9:23 "I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings." we do all for the sake of the Gospel with one goal in mind. Some will be saved.

I hope that you understand. We believe that Salvation of the lost should be goal of every Christian ministry. It is just the beginning. Our responsibility is to ensure that every Christian grows in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

So because you dislike the man you lie about what he says? I watched a video posted on this site yesterday where Mr Prince stated he believes in confession. It's kinda funny because that is the 1st video by him I watched all the way through. Since we know who the lord of lies is maybe you better check yourself.

You could be right. This is the problem of publishing books and making doctrinal statements
in them. You may change or withdraw the theology, but the book is still out there.

So then which is the reality, the book or a clip from one sermon. Some of these preachers do
change their take for instance on Jesus going to hell and being punished by satan.

But the quote stands from the book.

 

[PinkDiamond]

We have found the greatest challenge to faith of young adults going to College is Evolution and worse Theistic Evolution[The belief that God used evolution in creation] . Because of this We have intentional focus on Creation with our kids and youth program. We don't go into apologetics and all that noise. We found some very good resources that show our kids how God is in every bit of modern science. We begin teaching them how to ask something very basic...If what the Bible says is true, then what would we expect to see in the world today.

We also teach them to say....There are no creation facts and no evolution facts, there are only facts....

We have seen the fruit of this approach in that they come home from School and do not have to go toe to toe with professors, they simply pick the sticks out of the hay and have a Bible worldview that people do not challenge....

Think Acts 4.13-14 here....
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they had nothing to say in reply.

Nuff said....

I totally agree. That is the best way to handle this. I think the worst thing that secular universities do is propagate the idea that only backwards, ignorant, and bigoted people still believe in Creation and the Bible. No person wants to be viewed as ignorant. I think the fear of appearing ignorant is one of the hardest challenges to overcome ( really, at any age). I agree that the emphasis shouldn't be on disputing or arguing with teachers. I view this education to be for the young person's strength of mind.

I have a science degree, but I was fortunate that my field was applied science. I didn't really get inundated with evolution in my classes. That being said, I know how the science world puts down religion. They make an unnecessary divide between faith and science. I think it is helpful for children to be taught exactly what you said: that there are no evolution " facts." Both are beliefs that require faith. I also like the approach of teaching children that God is in modern science. One thing that I think is great is having children read about the famous scientists that did believe in God. So many brilliant minds and contributors to science were believers in God. Evolution is a relatively new belief. I think it is wise to remove as many potential stumbling blocks or avenues for the devil to create doubt. I do think knowledge is power and the more you are grounded in your faith and understanding of scripture the easier it is to overcome any doubts or attacks.

 

[eph610]

I totally agree. That is the best way to handle this. I think the worst thing that secular universities do is propagate the idea that only backwards, ignorant, and bigoted people still believe in Creation and the Bible. No person wants to be viewed as ignorant. I think the fear of appearing ignorant is one of the hardest challenges to overcome ( really, at any age). I agree that the emphasis shouldn't be on disputing or arguing with teachers. I view this education to be for the young person's strength of mind.

I have a science degree, but I was fortunate that my field was applied science. I didn't really get inundated with evolution in my classes. That being said, I know how the science world puts down religion. They make an unnecessary divide between faith and science. I think it is helpful for children to be taught exactly what you said: that there are no evolution " facts." Both are beliefs that require faith. I also like the approach of teaching children that God is in modern science. One thing that I think is great is having children read about the famous scientists that did believe in God. So many brilliant minds and contributors to science were believers in God. Evolution is a relatively new belief. I think it is wise to remove as many potential stumbling blocks or avenues for the devil to create doubt. I do think knowledge is power and the more you are grounded in your faith and understanding of scripture the easier it is to overcome any doubts or attacks.

Good stuff Pink

 

[FlSnookman7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpUrua961Nk




Here is the video I referenced.

 

[notuptome]

Roger you're right.

I'm always right.

I hope that you understand. We believe that Salvation of the lost should be goal of every Christian ministry. It is just the beginning. Our responsibility is to ensure that every Christian grows in Christ.

The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.

Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.

It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mikeys4grace]

I'm always right.
Have you been hanging around me again?

The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.

Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.

It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Ok, RogerRight, I'll disagree slightly here, just to be that way.
But seriously, I think some of this May be a sign of the times,
which may not necessarily be a bad thing, and may even be by God's grace,
(of all things, ) which I'd like to get into a bit if I can later, but
realize I can't now, soooo.....

I also don't know first-hand the 'doctrinal-errors' by him, but
maybe some things are a misunderstanding, both pro and con,
anyway, hope to check in later. Peace

 

[PinkDiamond]

I'm always right.

The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.

Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.

It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree with you. I think people get too hung up on the idea of specific ministry callings and feel that evangelization of others should be left to those with positions of leadership in the church. I agree that it is lazy. I also think some feel that this is the "job" of their minister.

In reality, most people are more affected by those they have come to trust and respect. I think there is so much that a Christian can do right within their sphere of influence. I don't think we should overlook the impact we can have on our coworkers, family, friends, etc.

I also agree with your point about discipleship.