The Real Truth About Joseph Prince!
- Thread starter Stephen63
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I'm always right. 
The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.
Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.
It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.
Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.
It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I don't get involved in critiquing other ministries. I have witnessed God take down many teaching false doctrines. I will trust Him to correct the doctrine of a ministry, or shut it down. I have witnessed many dedicated Christians who found Christ in one of these ministries, grown in Christ, and are now serving in other ministries. I trust God's word, that when it is sent out, it will not return void.
P
I agree. I think maybe the mistake is that there isn't enough emphasis on helping Christians mature and grow spiritually after conversion. Billy started a whole interesting discussion with his question about young people. This could make for a very interesting discussion about discipleship in a new thread.
I'm always right.
The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.
Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.
It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The great commission that Christ gave is not to churches or to ministries but to individual believers. We have become somewhat lazy and tend to push off our responsibility to the "ministry" rather than shoulder the responsibility ourselves. This is why I believe that the mega churches are less than effective in the discipleship of Christians under their ministry.
Folks like Joseph Prince and other mass evangelists would not get away with the doctrinal errors they teach and would be held accountable if folks studied their bibles and assembled in small bible studies together.
It's not really all that difficult to draw large crowds but it is increasingly difficult to obtain real solid converts. The word of God and the Holy Spirit still work but many are lost because of no local church support in discipleship of the new converts and with no individual contact from other believers they are soon overgrown by the thorns of this world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
(and I'll try to avoid any judgement calls on specific pastors by name)
but in general ..... we obviously live in a new era of communications,
and cultural changes are drastic and rapid in some areas.
Though the gospel of the grace of God never changes, the means of taking it to all the world surely has.
And in former times, in a smaller church, tho the locals could get more intimately involved with each other, and their pastor, for discipleship and accountability, but there's always the possibilty of false teaching, cultism, abuses going unchecked, and an entire congregation being swept away.
That SHOULD be less likely to happen in a 'mega', where there's a whole lot more ppl that should be being 'Bereans',
plus, with the use of recordings, cameras, the internet, etc., anything deadly dangerous is likely to be exposed and stopped more easily. Hopefully.
So I don't know that I'd say the church is lazy, ... maybe so, but the times sure are different, and with so much available in the way of teaching helps, discipeleship has changed also.
That's sad in a way, and I've felt like I missed out on some of that myself. But on the other hand, many people are being exposed to the Word in record numbers, and perhaps the internet is being used for discipleship where one on one or small group book studies couldn't really reach?
Of course, as I say that, I think of some of the wholesale nonsense that has taken place even in our lifetime .....
...people being led to bark like chickens and cluck like dogs, rolling around in the aisles laughing maniacally, the real money fleecers on tv, or those arguing and telling 'jokes' back and forth in so-called 'tongues' in front of thousands live and millions thru media, (no interpreter for the punchline, btw, how is THAT edifying?
), ...it's pretty shameful that these things are done in the name of our Lord and Savior, so I get it that the problems are widespread, and most of those 'ministries' are known to be nonsense,
but in other more legitamate churches, the gospel is going out to millions in ways like never before, and we have to remember that this is the tech age we live in, also, it doesn't take God by surprise, and we have to be using the tools that He hands us to reach the lost, edify the body, and bring our Savior glory as best and as we can. With joy, if possible, \
/I know you know all this, Roger, so I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound preachy to you, this is more directed to anyone in general,
and so, well, look at the great things that can be, and often are being accomplished right on this site for instance.
People are praying, opening the Word, praising Jesus, sharing their lives and fellowship, different teaching and worship styles being shared, and yes, different individuals/churches/ministries are given a chance to be seen and heard by many, some good, some maybe not so much, but the gifts of God are being used as believers feel they're being led by the Holy Spirit.
Maybe like Paul, we just have to rejoice that Jesus' name is being proclaimed, and know that His Word won't go out and return void, ... His will WILL be done, Hallelujah!
Hey, I'm just a knucklehead sinner saved by grace like anybody else, ... anything I have is a gift from Him, and whether one guy's reaching millions through a satellite, and another isn't sure if he even could reach one person in his lifetime, this is All the Lord's work, and it and He is good!
I never want to condone false teaching, or get pulled away by it myself, but I don't want to condemn another man, either, especially when so many are obviously coming to believe and grow in Christ Jesus. The Lord knows how to make all things work together for the good .....
Roger, I hope this post doesn't cause any rift between us, I respect and admire you and your posts alot.
And I know there are some others here that already have me labeled as a this or that, even tho I haven't really given my personal judgement on the one the thread's about, I haven't heard enough of his full length sermons, and I won't do it by videos and snippets posted off youtube here.
But he doesn't seem to be the deliberately disguised sheep leading millions astray I hear so much about. I've heard some things that don't sit right with me I will admit, but I know some ppl that really like him, and I'm quite fond of them, to say the least, and they seem to love the Lord Jesus Christ very much, so SOMEthing must be working right.
Anyways, that's my two-bit shpiel. God bless, all.
Without trying to be mean, that statement is false, because there never has been, nor will there ever be a gospel of grace.
It is the gospel of Jesus Christ..... always has been, always will be.
Mark 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
[HR][/HR]Romans 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[HR][/HR]Romans 15:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]Romans 15:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 9:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 9:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 9:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
[HR][/HR]Galatians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]Philippians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
[HR][/HR]1 Thessalonians 3:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
[HR][/HR]2 Thessalonians 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
It is the gospel of Jesus Christ..... always has been, always will be.
Mark 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
[HR][/HR]Romans 1:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[HR][/HR]Romans 15:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]Romans 15:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 9:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 9:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 9:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
[HR][/HR]2 Corinthians 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ:
[HR][/HR]Galatians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[HR][/HR]Philippians 1:27 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
[HR][/HR]1 Thessalonians 3:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
[HR][/HR]2 Thessalonians 1:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Though the gospel of the grace of God never changes, the means of taking it to all the world surely has.
unquote:
You are correct mikeys4grace - the gospel is called the gospel of grace or the gospel of Jesus Christ....and it is all "good news".
I will pop back in for a minute just to leave a scripture that shows it is called the gospel of the grace of God or the gospel of Christ - they are interchangeable.
Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
When this verse is compared with Galatians 1:6, it is very clear that the Gospel is the grace of God, and the grace of God is the Gospel.
It will always be a gospel of grace - the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Ok...all done here. All is well....
Last edited:
Though the gospel of the grace of God never changes, the means of taking it to all the world surely has.
unquote:
You are correct mikeys4grace - the gospel is called the gospel of grace or the gospel of Jesus Christ....and it is all "good news".
I will pop back in for a minute just to leave a scripture that shows it is called the gospel of the grace of God or the gospel of Christ - they are interchangeable.
Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
When this verse is compared with Galatians 1:6, it is very clear that the Gospel is the grace of God, and the grace of God is the Gospel.
It will always be a gospel of grace - the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.
Ok...all done here. All is well....
H
when ever you hear a statement Jesus spoke and in that phrase he says "beginning from Jerusalem", know that it is a Jewish programme. This is So bc the Lord never sent His disciples during his earthly ministry, to gentiles, bc He was preparing an apostle for the gentile nations.
The apostles of the lamb had a program me to reach all Jews in Jerusalem and Jews living in gentile world within a generation;They were to announce that the messiah has indeed come; That the promise made to their fore fathers has been fulfilled. This programmer was to bring about the close of the Jewish age(Judaism), and the believing Jews and gentiles were to now form one new man in Christ (the new creation)
The problem is that we do not understand the two apostle ships( that of the 12 to the Jews and Paul's to the gentile) and where they meet! If we don't rightly divide the word, we will end up with this same interpretation which our bro Stephen has arrived at
The apostles of the lamb had a program me to reach all Jews in Jerusalem and Jews living in gentile world within a generation;They were to announce that the messiah has indeed come; That the promise made to their fore fathers has been fulfilled. This programmer was to bring about the close of the Jewish age(Judaism), and the believing Jews and gentiles were to now form one new man in Christ (the new creation)
The problem is that we do not understand the two apostle ships( that of the 12 to the Jews and Paul's to the gentile) and where they meet! If we don't rightly divide the word, we will end up with this same interpretation which our bro Stephen has arrived at
Great exegesis in this video! He just shows how in case after case in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit DOES convict of sin. Plus a good memnonic for me for the word elegchw [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]ἐλέγχw in the Greek! It occurs 17 times in the NT![/FONT]
The great danger, as he so eloquently put it, is that when a believer thinks the Holy Spirit does not convict of sin, he begins to attribute that conviction to the devil. By ignoring the conviction, he then becomes callused and far from God.
What a sad fate for those who do not properly interpret the Bible, and instead rely upon false teachers who tickle itching ears.
"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." 2 Tim. 4:2-4
The great danger, as he so eloquently put it, is that when a believer thinks the Holy Spirit does not convict of sin, he begins to attribute that conviction to the devil. By ignoring the conviction, he then becomes callused and far from God.
What a sad fate for those who do not properly interpret the Bible, and instead rely upon false teachers who tickle itching ears.
"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." 2 Tim. 4:2-4
Sorry, but without the preaching of sin, the consequences of sin, a person cannot be saved. We are saved FROM our sins! We are not saved to be part of a fun club! Complete with all kinds of fringe benefits like concerts, parties and one day heaven!
That is NOT the gospel! I fell for this "love" gospel for years. But after my father got saved at age 82, because my husband preached repentance for sins, (after 32 years of me preaching only God's love!) I re-examined my heart. I realized that many, many people had tried to tell me of God's love, and all the benefits of being part of the "saved" club, the only person who spoke straight to me, was my future husband, who laid it out that I needed to repent of my sins! Oh yes, I was in college at the time, and I was a fun loving hippie. But God saved me even from that! Why? Because he knew I would really repent, and follow him! Nothing special about me!
That is the true gospel. That is what saves people. I am not angry at a single person, but I will never again preach a Christ-less gospel! Because that is what sharing a gospel without people understanding repentance and conviction for sin is - it is lacking Christ.
Jesus means - he came to save us from our sins. That is the message of the Bible from the Fall, to Revelation 22.
"But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:20-21
Your situation with the young people requires a lot of pre-evangelism. And I am not talking a lot of fun and games around the campfire. I am talking about solid Bible study! And helping them understand that the world has lied to them, and there are consequences for sin. Then, when they fall on their knees before the living God, you will know that GOD has saved them, not some phoney or emotional altar call that minimizes the gospel.
Last edited:
Most people don't know they are sinful. They think they are pretty good. They don't break any major laws. They don't steal or lie in any major way.
The way I was saved, or rather made my salvation known to myself, was I tried to be perfect before the Lord according to Matthew 5. I didn't make it very far, just for your general information...
So in this way the law was my schoolmaster to bring me to Christ. I didn't know that I couldn't do it before I tried. I tried as hard as I could but the thoughts of lust and covetousness were non-stop. It was only after I called out to the Lord that I was saved.
No one preached sin or consequence of sin to me. And I never heard anyone give the solution.
The solution is to get your focus off of your sin and onto Christ. You have no power over sin. None. So preaching against it and bringing it up all the time doesn't really help people. Unless you tell them what the solution is. The REAL Solution and not just some self-help humanist legalism.
And that solution is the Lord Jesus Christ. Come to Him, abide in Him. There is no other way. Not trying harder, not doing your best. Give up your work and understanding at being sinless and ask for wisdom and revelation and knowledge directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything is else is pretty much a farce. Distraction. Clanging gongs...
If we could keep ourselves sinless, if we had power over sin, we wouldn't have needed Christ to begin with. He doesn't just give us a boost so we can get back to work at trying harder. He IS the Solution. He IS the Way.
The way I was saved, or rather made my salvation known to myself, was I tried to be perfect before the Lord according to Matthew 5. I didn't make it very far, just for your general information...
So in this way the law was my schoolmaster to bring me to Christ. I didn't know that I couldn't do it before I tried. I tried as hard as I could but the thoughts of lust and covetousness were non-stop. It was only after I called out to the Lord that I was saved.
No one preached sin or consequence of sin to me. And I never heard anyone give the solution.
The solution is to get your focus off of your sin and onto Christ. You have no power over sin. None. So preaching against it and bringing it up all the time doesn't really help people. Unless you tell them what the solution is. The REAL Solution and not just some self-help humanist legalism.
And that solution is the Lord Jesus Christ. Come to Him, abide in Him. There is no other way. Not trying harder, not doing your best. Give up your work and understanding at being sinless and ask for wisdom and revelation and knowledge directly from the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything is else is pretty much a farce. Distraction. Clanging gongs...
If we could keep ourselves sinless, if we had power over sin, we wouldn't have needed Christ to begin with. He doesn't just give us a boost so we can get back to work at trying harder. He IS the Solution. He IS the Way.
The solution is to get your focus off of your sin and onto Christ. You have no power over sin. None. So preaching against it and bringing it up all the time doesn't really help people. Unless you tell them what the solution is. The REAL Solution and not just some self-help humanist legalism.
Amen! That is a lot of truth in one paragraph, thank you.
Amen! That is a lot of truth in one paragraph, thank you.
Stephen, the first time I read the "Gospel of the Grace of Christ", I wanted to reach through the screen and grab the poster and shake some sense into him. I still don't like the phrase. As I began to read the scriptures and the posts relating to the title, I realized that those using the phrase is an attempt to spread the same Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ that I have always attempted to share (I say attempted because I've had many doors shut on me). Our goal should always be to bring the lost to Christ. We should never tear down a ministry that is successful at this. I'm asking you and others to put aside your nitpicking of terminology, get out of your denominational bias, and scripture by scripture analyze what is actually being said. When you reach an impasse, agree to disagree, and take the problem to the Lord in prayer.
Normally I'd agree. If it were something like pentecostal vs Baptist I wouldn't even consider something like this.
But that's not the case. At all. This doctrine has taken over the BDF, & all people can say about it is "quit arguing with them".
This doctrine has a another plan of salvation, another faith, another grace, another faith, another repentance (& only 1), another confession..... it's messed up from the floor up. No commitment, no christian ability to fight the fight of faith, no real change, jusy be morally nice. It involves Word of Faith, & the prosperity gospel. No preaching on sin.And it's me-centered.
So, no..... not happening.
But that's not the case. At all. This doctrine has taken over the BDF, & all people can say about it is "quit arguing with them".
This doctrine has a another plan of salvation, another faith, another grace, another faith, another repentance (& only 1), another confession..... it's messed up from the floor up. No commitment, no christian ability to fight the fight of faith, no real change, jusy be morally nice. It involves Word of Faith, & the prosperity gospel. No preaching on sin.And it's me-centered.
So, no..... not happening.