The Reign of Jesus Christ

[Tim416]

Hmm ok...so the amillenialist dont believe there are two resurrections, one for the redeemed and one for the wicked separated by 1000 years. As its shown in Revelation. Its this correct?

Interesting. They think it will just be one day? To God.

Laying aside the first resurrection for the moment:

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’ John6:40
When is the last day referred to?

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Then I saw ‘a new heaven and a new earth,’[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, ‘Look! God’s dwelling-place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death”[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.’
Rev20-11-15&21:1-5

The last day is the last day of this present earth

 

[Nehemiah6]

Surprisingly, the Bible never says during the reign of the Messiah, every soul on earth will live in peace and righteousness.

Well you are seriously mistaken, and chances are you have not even studied this subject.

Let's take just one verse and look at it carefully (Isaiah 9:7)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

UNIVERSAL AND ETERNAL PEACE -- Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end...

UNIVERSAL AND ETERNAL RIGHTEOUSNESS -- ...and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever

So now do you see how seriously mistaken you are? And ignorance is not an excuse, since you should have studied the matter before posting. We need to be careful that we do not misrepresent what is clearly stated in Scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where is Jesus reigning now?

Jesus is fulfilling the ministry of our Great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary right now. Study the epistle to the Hebrews. God the Father has said to Him: Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Heb 1:13 and other similar passages).

At the same time God has always ruled in the affairs of men, and He continues to do so. But what we are addressing isChrist ruling on this earth as King of kings and Lord of lords, after having destroyed all His enemies and all the kingdoms of the world, particularly the kingdom of the Antichrist.

 

[Tim416]

Jesus is fulfilling the ministry of our Great High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary right now. Study the epistle to the Hebrews. God the Father has said to Him: Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (Heb 1:13 and other similar passages).

At the same time God has always ruled in the affairs of men, and He continues to do so. But what we are addressing isChrist ruling on this earth as King of kings and Lord of lords, after having destroyed all His enemies and all the kingdoms of the world, particularly the kingdom of the Antichrist.

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he ‘has put everything under his feet’.[c] Now when it says that ‘everything’ has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1Cor15:24-28

 

[Journeyman]

Well you are seriously mistaken, and chances are you have not even studied this subject.

Let's take just one verse and look at it carefully (Isaiah 9:7)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

UNIVERSAL AND ETERNAL PEACE -- Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end...

UNIVERSAL AND ETERNAL RIGHTEOUSNESS -- ...and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever

So now do you see how seriously mistaken you are? And ignorance is not an excuse, since you should have studied the matter before posting. We need to be careful that we do not misrepresent what is clearly stated in Scripture.

My friend, Isaiah is talking about Christ's Kingdom, which is increased when people get saved. People get saved every day of Christ's reign. People come to faith in Jesus now....every day. And as believers learn about Jesus, they develop a peace which passes human understanding. This peace is for those in his Kingdom.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts Phil.4:7

 

[louis]

That's true, but this has always been true throughout history, yet we know God reigned through all of it. And by this fact as well as others, I came to understand the "reign of Christ" in a way much differently from how I thought of it before.

Love doesn't wait. Love shows himself at all times. Jesus said,

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Jn.12:31

Satan is cast out by the love Jesus showed to the world and continues to show through us. But where is the devil cast out from? From the heavenly realm, which we become citizens of when Christ enters us.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev.12:12

But what does it mean that the devil "has come down" to us? Hasn't the devil always been on earth with great wrath persecuting believers? And since this is true, we should think of Satan being made lower in a different way.

Who do you think the prince of this world who is cast out in John 12:31 is?
Is it not the same prince of this world in John 14:30?
Christ is lifted up from the earth (John 12:32); He is not cast out.
From the fall in the garden to the commencing conclusion of the beasts system, this world has been and is servant to the devil, the prince of this world.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[louis]

That's true, but this has always been true throughout history, yet we know God reigned through all of it. And by this fact as well as others, I came to understand the "reign of Christ" in a way much differently from how I thought of it before.

Love doesn't wait. Love shows himself at all times. Jesus said,

Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. Jn.12:31

Satan is cast out by the love Jesus showed to the world and continues to show through us. But where is the devil cast out from? From the heavenly realm, which we become citizens of when Christ enters us.

Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev.12:12

But what does it mean that the devil "has come down" to us? Hasn't the devil always been on earth with great wrath persecuting believers? And since this is true, we should think of Satan being made lower in a different way.

I agree with you that Satan has been here always. But he has also always been granted access to heaven. In Revelation 12:9, however, we see the devil and his angels cast to the earth and no longer granted access to heaven.
How then do we rectify the Lord telling us that He saw Satan fall as lightning to the earth, and the prince of this world (Satan) now being cast out prior to the Lords crucifixtion?
The only logical way I see is for the Lord in Luke 10:18 and John 12:31 to be describing a future end result, which appears in Revelation 12:9.

Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[Hevosmies]

Hmm ok...so the amillenialist dont believe there are two resurrections, one for the redeemed and one for the wicked separated by 1000 years. As its shown in Revelation. Its this correct?

Interesting. They think it will just be one day? To God.

They had to wiggle out of the millennium to make the catholic state church supreme on the earth. They are "proxy ruling" for Jesus on the earth.

Oy vey!

 

[Hevosmies]

My friend, Isaiah is talking about Christ's Kingdom, which is increased when people get saved. People get saved every day of Christ's reign. People come to faith in Jesus now....every day. And as believers learn about Jesus, they develop a peace which passes human understanding. This peace is for those in his Kingdom.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts Phil.4:7

The irony of this is:

have you EVER been to a church with absolute peace? Yeah you havent. Churches are filled with all kinds of wickedness.

Isaiah 2 is talking about a FUTURE TIME. where PEACE will reign supreme. PEACE DOES NOT REIGN SUPREME TODAY! In christianity or any other area on the planet earth.
Wickedness is the standard operating procedure.

 

[Journeyman]

Who do you think the prince of this world who is cast out in John 12:31 is?

Satan.

Is it not the same prince of this world in John 14:30?

Yes.

Christ is lifted up from the earth (John 12:32); He is not cast out.
From the fall in the garden to the commencing conclusion of the beasts system, this world has been and is servant to the devil, the prince of this world.

You're thinking of "this world" as a place. It isn't. It's a state people are in.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Jesus said, I am not of this world .Jn.8:23. We were of the world, but no longer are.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son Col.1:13

We still occupy the same space physically speaking (like the wheat and weeds growing together), but spiritually we're separate.

 

[Journeyman]

The irony of this is:

have you EVER been to a church with absolute peace? Yeah you havent. Churches are filled with all kinds of wickedness.

Well, congregations consist of believers in all stages of growth. There are also weeds among the wheat. Its wonderful not to have to decide who is who...lol.

Isaiah 2 is talking about a FUTURE TIME. where PEACE will reign supreme. PEACE DOES NOT REIGN SUPREME TODAY!

It does in my heart. Thank you Jesus!

In christianity or any other area on the planet earth.
Wickedness is the standard operating procedure.

Not in my heart. Praise you Lord!

 

[louis]

You're thinking of "this world" as a place. It isn't. It's a state people are in.

I can agree that Jesus being lifted up represents a spiritual ascention.

Jesus said, I am not of this world .Jn.8:23. We were of the world, but no longer are.

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son Col.1:13

We still occupy the same space physically speaking (like the wheat and weeds growing together), but spiritually we're separate.

While we may be saved now, if we continue in our carnal inclinations, we are then still of the world.
I think we are suppose to grow spiritually, and leave our carnal inclinations behind us, so that we are not of the world.
I do agree with you though about true believers being spiritually seperate from those in the world who are totally carnally inclined.

 

[Journeyman]

I can agree that Jesus being lifted up represents a spiritual ascention.

Well, spiritually speaking, Jesus never changed. He bodily rose and ascended,

While we may be saved now, if we continue in our carnal inclinations, we are then still of the world.
I think we are suppose to grow spiritually, and leave our carnal inclinations behind us, so that we are not of the world.
I do agree with you though about true believers being spiritually seperate from those in the world who are totally carnally inclined.

Yeah brother, lets grow in grace. Like the Apostles who began afraid, but grew to face death without fear. Its good to know the King!

 

[Deade]

Well, spiritually speaking, Jesus never changed. He bodily rose and ascended,

Yeah brother, lets grow in grace. Like the Apostles who began afraid, but grew to face death without fear. Its good to know the King!

So you think Jesus looks the same way He did when He ascended? I would think He looks more like this:

Rev. 1:12-16 "Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

That is a change, right?

 

[Journeyman]

So you think Jesus looks the same way He did when He ascended? I would think He looks more like this:

Rev. 1:12-16 "Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength."

That is a change, right?

Yes, his body changed, but his spirit didn't. That's what I meant by "spiritually speaking". But you do bring up an interesting point about appearance.

What do you think about Jesus taking the three up the hill and being transformed before them? I don't mean at all that Jesus didn't come here in a human body, but I think our perception of how things really are could be distorted.

 

[Journeyman]

You see all this watering down of the gospel, of God's kingdom, by the Amillennial proponents we begin to get the picture why another gospel had to evolve. They had to make the "good news" about the story of Christ instead of the message of Christ.

I don't know what you mean by "another gospel". Scripture says we are saved by faith. Seeing Jesus in person requires no faith. So, the idea that people will be seeing Jesus in person for 1000 years and then get saved is not scriptural.

 

[Lanolin]

Wouldnt the 1000 years be for people already saved. Because its the first resurrection, the second resurrection is the judgement for the wicked. They are people who cant enter the kingdom at all.

Of course am looking forward to seeing Jesus face to face, yet we believers are all living by faith in the meantime. We know Jesus is reigning from Heaven and that he hasnt come to earth yet bringing Heaven down with Him creating everything new, He still working on saving souls and preparing us.

I dont know about catholic church ideas and doctrnines. I think they are a bit irrelevant to believers. Just go by what the Bible says not what a man made church teaches. Their hq is the vatican not Jerusalem. Jesus is not going to return there its quite clear in revelation and what he told his apostles that its all going to centre on Jerusalem! Its not going to be salt lake city or new york or wherever.

 

[Deade]

Yes, his body changed, but his spirit didn't. That's what I meant by "spiritually speaking". But you do bring up an interesting point about appearance.

What do you think about Jesus taking the three up the hill and being transformed before them? I don't mean at all that Jesus didn't come here in a human body, but I think our perception of how things really are could be distorted.

Jesus appeared only as a man to them, that is why they rejected Him. The transfiguration was a vision of a glorified Christ and represents His present appearance.

I don't know what you mean by "another gospel". Scripture says we are saved by faith. Seeing Jesus in person requires no faith. So, the idea that people will be seeing Jesus in person for 1000 years and then get saved is not scriptural.

Jesus came preaching about the gospel of the Kingdom of God, which is the only hope for this dying world. Antichrist has distorted His message to make it about Jesus Himself and His saving grace. Which is all well and good but not available to most yet. Who are you to tell God how to offer salvation during the millennial reign, I am sure the general public will not be viewing a glorified Christ. He needn't show Himself to reign over them. Anyway, the details are not up to us.

 

[Deade]

Wouldnt the 1000 years be for people already saved. Because its the first resurrection, the second resurrection is the judgement for the wicked. They are people who cant enter the kingdom at all.

No, the flesh and blood people at the start of the millennial reign are the unsaved that managed to stay alive through the carnage of the Day of the Lord. Those with Holy Spirit will be resurrected into spirits to co-rule with Christ. The only exceptions will be the 144,000 young Israelis that obviously have the HS but will be left alive to restart Israel.

 

[Journeyman]

Jesus appeared only as a man to them, that is why they rejected Him. The transfiguration was a vision of a glorified Christ and represents His present appearance.

People who have heard of and reject Jesus don't love God. That's the reason. And I think the curtain got pulled back for Peter, James and John because they didn't see things as they really are, not only as they would be.

Jesus came preaching about the gospel of the Kingdom of God, which is the only hope for this dying world. Antichrist has distorted His message to make it about Jesus Himself and His saving grace. Which is all well and good but not available to most yet.

Nobody enters the Kingdom of God without God's grace, so the gospel is all about Jesus and antichrist's message is that Jesus didn't come in the flesh, so his distorted message is not to believe in Jesus at all. In fact, it's a widely held belief that the Messiah will destroy the human enemies of the Jews, so antichrist may claim to be the Messiah, as he attempts to kill all true followers of Jesus. And even though people didn't understand how the scriptures would be fulfilled, there is no excuse for not believing in God.

Who are you to tell God how to offer salvation during the millennial reign, I am sure the general public will not be viewing a glorified Christ. He needn't show Himself to reign over them. Anyway, the details are not up to us.

I'm nobody to tell God how anything should be done. I believe God planned for Jesus reign over and defeat all the powers of darkness while in a flesh body and this he did. Who do theologians think they are to tell God Jesus's followers won't reign by the holy spirit the same way? And if that wasn't enough, the Bible says of the beast,

all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb Rev.13:8

So, when Jesus returns, there are two groups of people, those who will be saved and those who won't and the beast and his worshippers are destroyed by Jesus then.