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Yep. That's why I said
God didn't just come up with a bunch of random laws and regulations. He had a good reason for each and everyone of them. Some physical, all spiritual. Just because Jesus is the cleansing and purification, doesn't negate the wisdom and the reason behind the laws themselves. There is still wisdom and benefit in doing them.
My question is not about the nature of the covenant, but about Heb 8:13 regarding its endurance.
The word of God spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers states that
the Mosaic (old) Covenant has been made obsolete (abolition, as in Lk 24:31).
See post #411, here.
I'm asking: Do you believe Heb 8:13?
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The Mosaic Covenant promises blessings when we obey the law and punishments when we don't.
Those punishments are completely apart from our salvation. Our Salvation is only through faith not our works.
The Mosaic Covenant was given to us to show the way to a life here of joy, contentment, and abundance and a way to avoid all the grief of sin. It is our key to freedom. It is to be read with spirit and truth, not legalistically, for it was written for a culture much separated from our culture and before Christ lived as a man. Christ did not change it, but Christ updated it.
If God says it's obsolete, it's obsolete. But my point is that we need to understand what the Mosaic Covenant said, and what it's purpose was in order to understand what exactly is obsolete about it, and what that means for us today.
Read that verse again!! God does NOT say it is obsolete. God says it is BECOMING obsolete. It has been weakened. It could be that God meant that when Christ returns, we will have no need for law. It could mean that because we have the HS to help us with the law, the written law is subject to the HS. But it does not say it is obsolete.
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chubbena
Guest
Acts 15 - may be you have not read verse 21.
May be you should look up the commentaries written not too long ago, say 50, and see how off your opinion, which is in fashion only in the last 20 years, is and how far Christians have left the faith.
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chubbena
Guest
Perfect answer.
I don't mean to be unkind, but is God's point not enough?
Okay, it said everything in Ex 19-24.
Its terms are clearly given in Jer 11:2-5.
It was the condition or terms on which God would be their protector and guarantor of blessing.
The word of God spoken through his Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) states that
"the covenant has been made obsolete" (Heb 8:13).
It means for us today exactly what it states: "the covenant has been made obsolete" (Heb 8:13),
for God has replaced it with with the promised New Covenant (Heb 8:7-12),
because his people broke and nullified the old covenant (Jer 11:10) with their disobedience (Jer 11:6-10)
So do you believe Heb 8:13?
< this is like pulling hens' teeth >
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Those are not the meaning of the Greek word.
Check out its meaning in post #402, here.
It says what the Greek word means, as seen in Lk 24:31 (vanished) .
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Yes, the definition of "holiness" is "set apart,". . .from sin, and to God.
Sin is defined in the NT; i.e., disobedience to the NT commands.
In regards to how you're interpreting it? In part.
For the purposes of our salvation and Jesus' sacrifice, yes. That's what the following chapters of Hebrews talk about.
As far as the instructions found in the Mosaic covenant, those are not obsolete, but brought to a greater understanding.
We can keep going on and on if you'd like, but this is another point where we are going to disagree. Which is OK by me, because we're well into
Titus 3:8-10
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."
At this point, there is nothing really profitable going on in our discussion.
Well enough.
But it is profitable for me to understand your thinking on the matter,
which this response clarifies.
And that leaves six other points on which we agree, here.
Thanks.
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Heb 8:13 Decayeth. Or, “is growing old.” The question may be raised as to why this word is in the present tense if the old covenant passed away at the cross.
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Kerry
Guest
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Larry_Stotle
Guest
The OT never passed at the cross - the OT could not pass until the curse of Deuteronomy had been played out in the destruction of the covenant people in 70AD and this is confirmed by the prophet Isaiah:
(Isa 65:15 KJV) And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
Heb 8:13 Decayeth. Or, “is growing old.” The question may be raised as to why this word is in the present tense if the old covenant passed away at the cross.
I believe the Sabbath is still here. But as far as the ceremonial laws like killing a lamb is gone for sure.
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Larry_Stotle
Guest
Originally Posted by laymen
Heb 8:13 Decayeth. Or, “is growing old.” The question may be raised as to why this word is in the present tense if the old covenant passed away at the cross.
I believe the Sabbath is still here. But as far as the ceremonial laws like killing a lamb is gone for sure.
You can believe what you want - Hebrews does not state that this part or that part "decayeth" - it states all of it:
(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
And that includes the "return to the land" promises made to Israel - no covenant = no right of return.
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Kerry
Guest
Originally Posted by laymen
Heb 8:13 Decayeth. Or, “is growing old.” The question may be raised as to why this word is in the present tense if the old covenant passed away at the cross.
I believe the Sabbath is still here. But as far as the ceremonial laws like killing a lamb is gone for sure.
How can you take one without the other? OH this part i
s fulfilled but this part aint.
Its funny many people use this verse for a reason for not going or going to church but the real context of the verse is correction to a brother who has erred from the truth and God tells us that if two or three of us come together he will be there with us to help with that correction.