The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

[Elin]

Thanks, but I still don't understand "covenant lawsuit," and I don't find it in Scripture.

A lawsuit is a suit brought in law.

How is that in Ac 7?

Its in The book of Dan and ends in the book of Acts. It was part of the 70 weeks.

You've already told me that (below), I still don't understand, and
you are not answering my question.

The covenant lawsuit = Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are fulfilled in Act 7 the end of the seventy weeks.

Seventy weeks. This expression seems to be a rather abrupt introduction, but the angel had come for the specific purpose of causing Daniel to understand the vision. He immediately began to explain.
The word here translated “week,” shabua‘, describes a period of seven consecutive days (see Gen. 29:27; Deut. 16:9; Dan. 10:2). In the pseudepigraphical Book of Jubilees, as well as in the Mishnah, shabua‘ is used to denote a period of seven years. Here, evidently, weeks of years are intended rather than weeks of days, for in ch. 10:2, 3 when Daniel wishes to specify that the “weeks” there referred to are seven-day weeks he explicitly says, “weeks of days” (Heb.; KJV, “full weeks”). Seventy weeks of years would be 490 literal years, without (here) applying the day-year principle.
Are determined. Chathak, a word occurring only here in the Bible. It occurs in post-Biblical Hebrew with the meaning “to cut,” “to cut off,” “to determine,” “to decree.” The LXX has krinō, “to decide,” “to judge,” etc. Theodotion’s version has suntemnō, “to shorten,” “to abbreviate,” etc., which meaning is reflected in the Vulgate reading abbreviare. The exact shade of meaning here intended must be determined from the context. In view of the fact that ch. 9 is an exposition of the unexplained portion of the vision of ch. 8, and inasmuch as the unexplained portion had to do with the 2300 days, it is logical to conclude that the 70 weeks, or 490 years, were to be “cut off” from that longer period. Furthermore, in the absence of contrary evidence, it may be assumed that the 70 weeks would be cut off from the beginning of that period. Viewed in the light of these observations, the translation of chathak as “to cut” seems singularly appropriate. In so far as the 490 years were especially assigned to the Jews with respect to their role as God’s chosen people, the translations “determine” and “decree” are also appropriate to the context.
Thy people. The 490 years applied especially to the Jewish nation.
To finish. lekalle’ from the root kela’, “to restrain.” The passage may have reference to the restraining power that God would exercise upon the forces of evil during the period allotted to the Jews. However, some 40 Hebrew manuscripts read lekalleh, a form clearly from kalah, “to bring a completion.” If kalah is the root, then the passage evidently refers to the fact that within this period the Jews would fill the cup of their iniquity. God had suffered long with the Israelites. He had given them many opportunities, but they continually disappointed Him (see pp. 32, 33).
To make an end of sins. This phrase may be parallel in meaning to the one preceding it, “to finish the transgression.” Some expositors note that the word here translated “sins” ( chaṭṭa’oth, orchaṭṭa’th, according to some manuscripts and the Masoretes) may mean either “sins” or “sin offerings.” Of the 290 occurrences in the OT chaṭṭa’th has the meaning “sin” 155 times, and “sin offering” 135 times. If “sin offerings” is the intended meaning, the following interpretation is suggested: When Christ on Calvary became the antitype of the sacrificial offerings of the sanctuary, it was no longer necessary for the sinner to bring his sin offering. However, the plural form chaṭṭa’oth almost invariably describes sins and only once, unless this be an exception also, denotes sin offerings (Neh. 10:33).
To make reconciliation. Heb. kaphar, generally translated “to make atonement” (see Ex. 30:10; Lev. 4:20; etc.). By His vicarious sacrifice on Calvary Christ provided reconciliation for all who accept His sacrifice.
Everlasting righteousness. Christ did not come to earth simply to provide for the blotting out of sin. He came to reconcile man to God. He came so that it might be possible to impute and to impart His righteousness to the penitent sinner. When men accept Him, He bestows on them the robe of His righteousness, and they stand in God’s presence as though they had never sinned. God loves repentant, believing souls as He loves His only Son, and for Christ’s sake accepts them into His family. By His life, death, and resurrection, Christ has made everlasting righteousness available to every child of Adam who, in simple faith, is willing to accept it.
To seal up. Here evidently not in the sense of “shutting up,” but of “confirming,” or “ratifying.” The fulfillment of the predictions connected with the first coming of the Messiah at the time specified in the prophecy gives assurance that the other features of the prophecy, notably the 2300 prophetic days, will be as precisely fulfilled.
The most Holy. Heb. qodesh qodashim, “something most holy,” or, “someone most holy.” The Hebrew phrase is applied to the altar (Ex. 29:37; 40:10), other vessels and furniture pertaining to the tabernacle (Ex. 30:29), the holy perfume (Ex. 30:36), specified meat offerings (Lev. 2:3, 10; 6:17; 10:12), trespass offerings (Lev. 7:1, 6), the shewbread (Lev. 24:5–9), devoted things (Lev. 27:28), the holy district (Num. 18:10; Eze. 43:12), and the most holy place of the sanctuary (Ex. 26:33, 34). The phrase is nowhere applied to persons, unless, as some suggest, it is so applied in the text under consideration and in 1 Chron. 23:13. The latter text may be translated, “Aaron was separated to anoint him a most holy one,” although it may also be rendered as in the KJV. Jewish expositors and many Christian commentators have held that the Messiah is referred to.
In view of the fact that the Hebrew phrase cannot elsewhere be shown to refer definitely to a person, and in view of the fact that the heavenly sanctuary is under discussion in the larger aspects of the vision (Dan. 8:14), it is reasonable to conclude that Daniel is here speaking of the anointing of the heavenly sanctuary prior to the time of Christ’s inauguration as high priest.

 

[Elin]

The law that was set aside was the one that was "weak and useless to make righteous" (Heb 7:18-19)
because of their disobedience to it (Heb 8:8).That
is the Mosaic law, not the priesthood laws.

There called "Ceremonial laws" and they are tied to the priests and temple laws as well. This is
not the same as the 10 Commandments

The Mosaic law is all law given at Sinai.

The Mosaic law with its curse (condemnation) for imperfect obedience (Dt 27:26) has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

It is now found in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8,9, 10; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2), without its curse (condemnation) for imperfect obedience.

The Mosiac law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and the Mosiac covenant made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus was not in a cult.
He kept the Sabbath.

 

[john832]

Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said,
Today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. (emphasis on today)
Heb 4:8 For if JOSHUA had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.


....Fixed it for ya

Let me bandage up your wound with...

Word for rest here is Sabbatismos and means keeping the Sabbath. The Diaglott makes it clear...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Even my Oxford KJV has keeping Sabbath in the margin. Care to explain to us why Sabbatismos really doesn't mean keeping Sabbath? I am sure you have an alternate translation for the Greek word Sabbatismos.

 

[john832]

Jesus was not in a cult.
He kept the Sabbath.

And Peter said this about Him...

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Hmmm, it reallly doesn't say "Don't do anything Christ has done" does it? It says to follow in His steps.

 

[Elin]

Jesus was not in a cult.
He kept the Sabbath.

He also kept all the Decalogue, went to Jerusalem every year for the three feasts, followed the purification laws, offered sacrifices, etc., etc., etc.

Relevance?

 

[KohenMatt]

He also kept all the Decalogue, went to Jerusalem every year for the three feasts, followed the purification laws, offered sacrifices, etc., etc., etc.

Relevance?

Then maybe we should too? (Minus the physical sacrifices, because Jesus was those. But spiritually, maybe we should, too).

 

[Elin]

Paul's intention is seen in what he revealed; e.g., 1Co 9:20-21.

Christ's intention is seen in his command (Mt 22:37-40).

1 Cor 9:19-20 Is talking in the context of saving the lost.

Non-responsive.

We see though it was Paul's custom to keep the sabbath Act_13:42 And when theJews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Act_13:44 And the next sabbath day came
almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. 2 And Paul entered, as he usually did, and for three Sabbaths he reasoned and argued with them from the Scriptures,

We see both Jews and Gentiles were keeping the Sabbath also

According to your rendition of the text, the whole city was keeping the Sabbath.

Yes, Paul went to the synagogues to preach the gospel to the Jews,
and the Gentiles also went there to hear Paul,
and in this case almost the whole city showed up.

Eventually, Christians began meeting in their homes.

You're fishing. . .

 

[laymen]

The Rest spoke of in Heb 4:9 is the rest of grace. We enter into God's "rest" when we consider Jesus ch3:1 and listen to his voice (ch. 3:7, 15;4:7) when we exercise faith in Him )Ch4:2,3 when we cease from our own efforts to earrn salvation (vs10) when we "hold fast our profession" (vs14) and when we draw near to the throne of grace (vs16) Those who would enter in o this experience must beware of evil heart (chs 3:8,15;4:7) They must strive to enter into God's rest (ch4:11) Those who enter into God's "rest" will hold fast their "profession" (v14) they will "come boldly unto the throne of grace" obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need (vs 16)

 

[Larry_Stotle]

(1 Cor 15:46 KJV) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Israel and it's old covenant was of the "natural" - all the shadows of the OT were of the natural which were types of the spiritual which included the sabbath rest.

In Hebrews the argument is presented that Israel's exodus, and entrance into the Land were typological of the events during the 1st century experience of the early church.

Old Israel had entered the Land, but had not entered into the Rest, the writer points us away from the physical realities of Israel to the spiritual realities which is the true rest in Christ.

 

[Elin]

Let me bandage up your wound with...

Word for rest here is Sabbatismos and means keeping the Sabbath. The Diaglott makes it clear...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

Even my Oxford KJV has keeping Sabbath in the margin. Care to explain to us why Sabbatismos really doesn't mean keeping Sabbath? I am sure you have an alternate translation for the Greek word Sabbatismos.

God has ordained that the Sabbath-rest is a shadow of the Son, in whom is our salvation-rest (Heb 4:1, 3, 6, 8-11):

"Since the promise of entering his rest still stands,
[Salvation is still available. His rest does not refer ultimately to the rest in Canaan.
The partial and temporary earthly rest in Canaan under Joshua (v.8; Jos 1:13) pointed to a
rest that is spiritual and eternal in God, through Christ's finished work.]
let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. . .

Now we who have believed enter that rest
[just as entering physical rest in Canaan demanded faith in God's promise,
so salvation-rest is entered only by faith in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ.]
just as God has said,
'So I declared on oath in my anger, "They shall never enter my rest." '
And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. . .
[God's rest in his finished work, the rest God calls us to enter (vv.10-11), is not
our temporary rest on the Sabbath day, but his eternal rest, offered to us, through
faith in the finished work of Christ.]

It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the
gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience [unbelief]. . .

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken about another day.
There remains then a Sabbath-rest for the people of God:
[God's rest in his finished work may still be entered, by faith in the finished work of his Son.]
for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.
[As God rested from the work of creation, the believer ceases his efforts to gain salvation
by his own works and rests in the finished work of Christ on the cross.]

Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest [to enter salvation-rest by faith],
so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience [their sad example of unbelief]."

Heb 4 is clear.

The remaining Sabbath rest for the people of God is a matter of faith and rest
in the finished work of Christ on the cross,
just as God rests in his finished work.

 

[Elin]

Then maybe we should too? (Minus the physical sacrifices, because
Jesus was those.

Jesus was also the Sabbath, the purificatons and the feasts.

But spiritually, maybe we should, too).

It's not a guessing game.

"Maybe" we should believe the NT (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2).)

 

[prove-all]

How dare anyone claim The sabbath is a cult


you are treadding on Holy ground , i suggest you rethink this through

and pray God for even thinking of about slandering his Holy things

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

 

[Elin]

How dare anyone claim The sabbath is a cult


you are treadding on Holy ground , i suggest you rethink this through

and pray God for even thinking of about slandering his Holy things

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​

for it is God who works it in you both to will and to do his good will.

 

[laymen]

Originally Posted by Elin
The law that was set aside was the one that was "weak and useless to make righteous" (Heb 7:18-19)
because of their disobedience to it (Heb 8:8).That
is the Mosaic law, not the priesthood laws.

Originally Posted by laymen

There called "Ceremonial laws" and they are tied to the priests and temple laws as well. This is
not the same as the 10 Commandments

The Mosaic law is all law given at Sinai.

The Mosaic law with its curse (condemnation) for imperfect obedience (Dt 27:26) has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

It is now found in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8,9, 10; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2), without its curse (condemnation) for imperfect obedience.

The Mosiac law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) and the Mosiac covenant made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

What I mean to saying is the levitical laws were changed. Not the 10 commandments

Heb 8:8. "Finding fault with them." The weakness of the first covenant was not in the covenant itself; nor did the fault lie in God. It was the people who were faulty (Heb. 8:7; Rom. 9:30 to 10:3; Heb. 3:18 to 4:2)

Heb 8:7. "First covenant". By this expression it means the system in force in OT times since Sinai, of which the Levitical priesthood was an integral part.This system with its laws came to an end when Jesus became high priest after the order of Melchisedec (see on ch. 7:12, 18, 19). The Sabbath was here before all of this. The Levitical laws were added to the 10 commandments (lev 23:37-38).

 

[laymen]

The Bible presents two basic covenants, the everlasting (which later became known as the new) and the old. A failure properly to define the term “covenant” and correctly to distinguish between the old and the new covenants has given rise to much misunderstanding. The everlasting covenant is simply God’s arrangement for the salvation of the human race. The expression is, for practical purposes, synonymous with the term “the plan of redemption.” This covenant was made with Adam in Eden and later renewed to Abraham. It represented the setting into operation of a plan whereby man might be restored to the position he had lost. Man needed pardon for his transgression. Forgiveness became possible through the work that the Son of God was to do in His incarnation, life, and death. Man’s character needed to be brought back into harmony with the divine image. Divine power was promised, which, when accepted by man, would expel sin from the life and incorporate the righteous character traits into the soul.
This covenant, or arrangement, for salvation was made with Adam, but it applies equally to men in all ages. In New Testament times this same covenant became known as the new covenant, simply because its validation by the sacrifice of Christ came after the validation of the old covenant, which occurred at Sinai.
The old covenant was made at Sinai. Why was this covenant necessary when an adequate arrangement for salvation was already in existence? The old covenant was never intended to take the place of the everlasting covenant; neither was it designed to be an alternative means of salvation. An examination of the historical background will help to clarify its objective. In their slavery in Egypt the Israelites had, to a large extent, lost their knowledge of God and of His requirements. Their reeducation would require time. Spiritual truth is only gradually comprehended. The acquirement of one truth makes possible the acquisition of another. God began His instruction at Sinai by informing the people that the objective of His plan was to bring their lives into harmony with His character. However, the purpose was stated objectively, “Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation” (Ex. 19:5, 6). At the time the Israelites understood little of what was involved. They agreed to the broad statement of the objectives and replied, “All that the Lord hath spoken we will do” (Ex. 19:8). It was God’s plan to go from here and instruct the people as to how these objectives could be achieved. Gradually, as they would be able to comprehend, He would unfold to them all the details of the everlasting covenant.
Unfortunately the people never seemed to progress beyond the first lesson in their spiritual instruction. They grasped the idea of the necessity of obedience. Such a philosophy they had learned in Egypt. Hence, they sought the favor of God by endeavoring to render an outward obedience to the divine requirements. All attempts by God to show the necessity of a new heart, and of divine grace to render such obedience possible, met with repeated failure. Save for individual exceptions such an attitude continued throughout the whole OT period, and this despite repeated appeals by the prophets to accept the higher relationship. On the new covenant see Jer. 31:31–34; Heb. 8:8–13.

 

[KohenMatt]

Jesus was also the Sabbath, the purificatons and the feasts.


It's not a guessing game.

"Maybe" we should believe the NT (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2).)

Rhetorical question.


So far, we have God telling His people to obey the Law forever (Sabbath included), Jesus obeying the Law (Sabbath included), we have Him telling His disciples to obey it forever, we have Him telling His disciples to teach it forever, and we have Paul obeying the Law.

And yet somehow, we're not supposed to follow the Law.

Disclaimer: Observing the Law and the Sabbath in particular has no bearing on salvation at all. By following the law, I have no desire to try and improve my standing with God whatsoever. My salvation lies solely in the gracious work of Jesus' life, death and resurrection.

 

[prove-all]

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it
he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
mana was a test command and they failed at that
the ten commandments where signed and sealed in blood
nothing more was added to our was taken away
the Sabbath was a seperent covenent beside the ten
Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you
throughout your generations that ye may know that I am
the [Eternal] that doth sanctify you”(Exodus 31:13)

Jeremiah 33:20 (KJV)
Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day,
and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day
and night in their season;7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee
and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant,
to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.Psalms
89:34 (KJV)
My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips.
1 Chronicles 16:15 (KJV)
Be ye mindful always of his covenant;
the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel
for an everlasting covenant:1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Psalms 105:8 (KJV)
He hath remembered his covenant for ever,
the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

Deuteronomy 7:9 (KJV)
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God,
the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them
that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

ok say 10 years every generation,
100 generations in a thousand years
say 6000 years of man is 600 generations


id say its still in effect today
and will be forever God will not change

and the truth is not in you

 

[Elin]

The law that was set aside was the one that was "weak and useless to make righteous" (Heb 7:18-19)
because of their disobedience to it (Heb 8:8).That
is the Mosaic law, not the priesthood laws.

There called "Ceremonial laws" and they are tied to the priests and temple laws as well. This is not the same
as the 10 Commandments

What I mean to saying is the levitical laws were changed. Not the 10 commandments

I understand.

But all the laws given to Moses, at Sinai and in the tabernacle (Lev 1:1), including the curse (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10), were one unit.
They could not be separated among themselves, nor from their curse.
If you broke one, you broke them all, and to remove the curse made it no longer the Mosaic law.
You cannot set aside the curse for imperfect obedience, without setting aside the Mosaic law.

The revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers states that the Mosaic law with its curse has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19),
and the law of God is now the law of Christ (1Co 9:20-21; Mt 22:37-39), which fulfills the Mosaic law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13: 8, 9, 10).
Freedom in Christ does not requires specific law keeping, but rather very specific loving of God and the brethren.

Where love is, by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit, one's behavior does not have to be regulated by law, for it is regulated by something higher, by love in the grace and power of the Holy Spirit. That is what "writing the law on one's heart" means.

Heb 8:8. "Finding fault with them." The weakness of the first covenant was not in the covenant itself; nor did the fault lie in God.
It was the people who were faulty (Heb. 8:7; Rom. 9:30 to 10:3; Heb. 3:18 to 4:2)

Agreed. . .the people were disobedient and broke the covenant (Jer 11:10), therefore, God promised a new covenant (Jer 31:31-34).

Heb 8:7. "First covenant". By this expression it means the system in force in OT times since Sinai, of which the Levitical priesthood was an integral part.This system with its laws came to an end when Jesus became high priest after the order of Melchisedec (see on ch. 7:12, 18, 19). The Sabbath was here before all of this. The Levitical laws were added to the 10 commandments (lev 23:37-38).

There was no law and no curse of the law (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10) from Adam to Moses (Ro 5:13-14).

The Sabbath, as part of the Decalogue, was made a binding law on God's people at Sinai, along with all the other laws given to Moses in the tabernacle (Lev 1:1).
The laws given to Moses at Sinai and in the tabernacle have been set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

They are now found in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2) which fulfills (accomplishes) all the laws given to Moses at Sinai and in the tabernacle. (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

 

[Elin]

The Bible presents two basic covenants, the
everlasting (which later became known as the new) and the
old.

Please give Biblical references, that I may examine them.