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Colossians 2: 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority ; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come ; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. 20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch !" 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use )-in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men ?
It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so hard hearted that they cannot see plain and clear teachings in the Bible, but insist on weighing people down with the requirements and statutes of men which are of no account. Pray that your heart may be softened, so that you can receive wisdom from the words of the apostles and Jesus Christ.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can be so hard hearted that they cannot see plain and clear teachings in the Bible, but insist on weighing people down with the requirements and statutes of men which are of no account. Pray that your heart may be softened, so that you can receive wisdom from the words of the apostles and Jesus Christ.
A
When one is born into a family trapped in the false doctrine of a cult, they strongly believe what they have been taught. Complicating the situation are the familial and social/peer pressures to conform to the teachings of the cult and these can be intense even after God begins to open someone's eyes. It's no small thing to leave a cult.
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
I
It you trully understood this then why judge a Muslim on his practices in worship to God. Does not that perish with the use as well? Or is the God we worship not strong enough to nail the laws of the Qu'ran to the cross as well?
For all of your learning and knowledge of God, you never come to a knowledge of the truth. You know nothing of my family. You assume my denomination. You judge by the flesh because it is you who, in fact harden your heart to the Spirit! My message is that of Christ crucified. I said nothing about resting on Saturday or Sunday. I preach of the true meaning of a Sabbath to obey spiritually.
When one is born into a family trapped in the false doctrine of a cult, they strongly believe what they have been taught. Complicating the situation are the familial and social/peer pressures to conform to the teachings of the cult and these can be intense even after God begins to open someone's eyes. It's no small thing to leave a cult.
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
When one is born into a family trapped in the false doctrine of a cult, they strongly believe what they have been taught. Complicating the situation are the familial and social/peer pressures to conform to the teachings of the cult and these can be intense even after God begins to open someone's eyes. It's no small thing to leave a cult.
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
Forums like this allow those in such a doctrinal and spiritual condition to be exposed to the authentic truth of God's Word sans-cult. In the old days, we had to go to the cult members and engage them. Today they come to us! Praise the Lord!
So these discussions are important for them even if they don't yet grasp the truth. God loves these people very much with a deep love. He wants them to come into the light of His truth. Excellent verse choices by the way
It is true that people who have never been exposed to the bible have a sense that God exists, and know something of His nature, (Psalms 19:1; Acts 14: 16-17). But without a knowledge and understanding of God's special revelation, found in the bible, sin cause a distortion of man's ability to understand God, (Romans 1: 19-21). All of the false religions of the world are evidence of man's distortion of the truth, found in nature.
We can only know God in a more intimate way because we have been chosen by His Son to have that knowledge (Matthew 11: 27). We do not choose Jesus, He chooses us. We then have an obligation to study God's word, in order to have a certain knowledge of His will for us. We also have an obligation to study it in the proper way. This means with an open mind, being teachable and willing to be instructed. We must be willing to apply that learning to our lives, becoming more spirtually mature and continually learning the ways of the Lord, (Colossians 1: 10). This means giving up those "traditions of men" that we have been taught, when shown by scripture to be in error.
We can never know all there is to know about God, (Psalms 145: 3; Psalms 139: 6). But we must be willing to accept that knowledge that is revealed to us, and apply it for our own good.
A
Hi Israel. I haven't said anything about you or to you in this thread. I'm having a discussion with SuperDave.
For some reason, you thought I was talking to you and about you and are becoming very defensive and personally negative.
I'm not even talking to you. Relax and go on your way. Peace.
Now back to who I have actually been talking to in this thread. SuperDave! That's a great response bro. You really are SUPER!!!
For some reason, you thought I was talking to you and about you and are becoming very defensive and personally negative.
I'm not even talking to you. Relax and go on your way. Peace.
Now back to who I have actually been talking to in this thread. SuperDave! That's a great response bro. You really are SUPER!!!
I
Hi Israel. I haven't said anything about you or to you in this thread. I'm having a discussion with SuperDave.
For some reason, you thought I was talking to you and about you and are becoming very defensive and personally negative.
I'm not even talking to you. Relax and go on your way. Peace.
Now back to who I have actually been talking to in this thread. SuperDave! That's a great response bro. You really are SUPER!!!
For some reason, you thought I was talking to you and about you and are becoming very defensive and personally negative.
I'm not even talking to you. Relax and go on your way. Peace.
Now back to who I have actually been talking to in this thread. SuperDave! That's a great response bro. You really are SUPER!!!
So what you are saying is that your response of being part of a cult spreading heresies on a thread that I started is not referring to me? If not, then I apologize, but isn't simpler to put it on a thread who you are referencing those remarks to? I'm not defensive, I just don't see the point in bringing up the family of this person X you are talking about. And besides, most Christians are brought up the same way. They too end up in a strong belief in what they were taught whether it is right or wrong.
I
What this actually does Wisdomseeker is to further show what I'm talking about. The image is of the flesh! We have Christians who have their image (system) of how to reach God. We have Islam with there image (system) of how to reach God and so on and so forth with other religious faiths. We are always to abstain from sin. But most, when you mention the verses in your quote, only focus on the fleshly aspect of those things mentioned.
2 Peter 2
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in ****able heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their ****ation slumbereth not.
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
This is what's going on today in different religious faiths. The covet and make merchandise of us! Let's be honest. Most Christians believe that only true Christians will be saved. It is the same with Islam and Judiasm. And through vain philosophy, these pull one from another with a presented image of godliness, but denying the power of God. In any religion, God knows how to deliver the Godly from temptation.
Galatians 1:10-14
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: 14And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Paul profited in the Jews religion above his equals by being more zealous of the tradition of his fathers. He doing the work of the flesh. The image of the religion he was in he was zealous for!
1 Timothy 1:5-13
5Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Again, in the Jews religion, Paul was zealous and profited greatly. But in that religion having an image or form of godliness, it denied the power of God. In upholding the fleshly image of that religion, he became a blasphemer and persecutor. He ignorantly did it in unbelief and was set as an example for us to follow in whatever religion we are married to as well.
The fruit of the spirit has no image! It is in the spirit that the Muslim, Jew, and Christian are one! How can a righteous Muslim who loves God with all of his being and loves his neighbor as himself be deceived if the law is not made for him? The same goes for a Jew or a Christian as well. It is when we give life to that form or image (system) and call it God, we deny the power of that Spirit and are indeed under the law and judgement.
God bless you
Wisdomseeker
Hi Israel, the sabbath continues for those under the law who rejected Christs New Covenant of grace, the sabbath was made for men, not the other way around. It was to stop exploitation of our fellow man from slaving away seven days a week. Remember Christ's teachings were first for the Jews, then the Gentiles afterwards. All mention of the sabbath is directed at those who in future generations living under the first covenant in which the sabbath plays a main role, to abide by all things written in that law.If you break one law, you break them all. The Whole Law was a curse for the 'wayward' Jews whom God beforehand knew would depart from His ways. So yes the sabbath is still in effect, but only for the adherants of the 1st covenant. Those under the curse.
Another point i'd like you to ponder on Israel. God's laws were first revealed to the Hebrews. He did not choose Israel, He created that nation from a man,Abraham. His laws were enshrined thousands of years before islam. Therein prophecies concerning a saviour to come were made, He was to be rejected, And as Moses signified by the lifting of the brass serpent in the desert, He was to be crucifed., along with many other prophecies concerning Him, all fulfilled.When His New Testament was established after His crucifiction, for the testator has to be 'dead' for the testament to come into effect, His teachings through His apostles was established. All these thousands of years one group of people worshipped this God of Abraham, the muslim peoples for lack of a better description were still worshipping a host of other gods. Now mohummed claims Gabriel, of the Jewish God, came and gave him a new gospel. However the Christ which we follow who fulfilled all prophecies regarding Him warned us through His apostles quite plainly in Galatians 1:8 : But though we, or an ANGEL from HEAVEN, preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. v10 For do i now persuade men, or God? or do i seek to please men? for if i yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Jesus Christ. The mormans made a similar claim..a new gospel. Consider the early converts to islam, worshipping muliple gods, the moon god quite notable, her symbol still married and seen on islamic symols being the crescent moon, these people had no knowledge of our God, along came a man preaching another way, his way, whom an ANGEL apparently authorized him to preach, those who resisted and mocked him were slain on his return with his army in tow all behind the new cause which gave them priveledges amongst the people. Through fear of death it has spread to where it is today. Oh yes islam has a role to play, yes God allowed it to manifest and grow, but it isn't the role i suspect you think or wish it has to fulfill. All will be revealed openly once it has played that part, until then, it will grow till the climax bursts asunder.
A
Oh you were being defensive. That was a very negative personal attack you launched on me (e.g. ad hominem) done in defense of what you wrongly thought I had said about you. Now you are lying about it.
Yet it is easy for anyone to go back and read and see that you, in fact, did say what you said and that it was not based on reality.
As for my part, I'm forgiving and forgetting. The truth should be respected and that is the only reason I point this out to you.
You are correct Israel. I don't know you nor what you believe and was replying to a post of SuperDaves. If you post something I believe to be in error and I read it while having the time to reply to it, I surely would respond. That was not the case, however.
In closing, just because you start a thread does not mean that every post from every person in that thread will always be focused on you and what you have to say. People are not bound under your control to that extent because you start a thread. So reset your expectations and make a note of it.
Learn, Grow, Reinvent Yourself with God's Help Where Necessary and Desirable. God bless! I'm out for a couple days. Peace all around.
Yet it is easy for anyone to go back and read and see that you, in fact, did say what you said and that it was not based on reality.
As for my part, I'm forgiving and forgetting. The truth should be respected and that is the only reason I point this out to you.
You are correct Israel. I don't know you nor what you believe and was replying to a post of SuperDaves. If you post something I believe to be in error and I read it while having the time to reply to it, I surely would respond. That was not the case, however.
In closing, just because you start a thread does not mean that every post from every person in that thread will always be focused on you and what you have to say. People are not bound under your control to that extent because you start a thread. So reset your expectations and make a note of it.
Learn, Grow, Reinvent Yourself with God's Help Where Necessary and Desirable. God bless! I'm out for a couple days. Peace all around.
I
Hello to you as well, Devolution
I agree that the letter still stands for those under the law and to break any one of them is to break them all. But when Christ died to the flesh and rose again, we are to now live after the spirit. God is a Spirit who wrote the ten commandments with His own finger. This was to show the spirituality of these ten. The statutes and judgements that God commanded Moses to give was temporary. This part of the law has no spirituality in it and thus was placed on the side of the ark as a witness against us. Jesus took this out of the way in the letter to leave only that which was spiritual. God doesn't eat, have sex, sleep or does any of the things contained in those ordinances. I think a lot of people misunderstand me based off of the letter of what is means to obey the Sabbath. I'm trying to show how to obey it spiritually. As far as Muslims worshipping the moon god, the same can be made about some practices in the Christian religion as well (i.e. Christmas, Easter). In both cases, it is the image or system that a person worships (unknowingly) that brings judgement. Niether Christianity nor Islam can save you. It is only by the power of the Spirit of God that can.
Jeremiah 9:22-26
22Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.
23Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
25Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; 26Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
These are not talking about just the physical children of these nation but the spiritual children as well. They all stumble at the spiritual Sabbath and thus are still under the law and the ordinances as a witness against them. Israel knows who the true God is and as such, they are circumcised in the flesh. But not in the heart. They bring themselves under the authority of the letter of the Sabbath and teach that those who do not obey will face judgement. They lack true faith in the Spirit. These people are those that teach that to eat unclean meat means death and adhere to the ordinances. Not in that what they practice is wrong, but to teach that those who worship on Sunday and eat unclean meat brings death upon themselves is the part of error. The truth is that no matter what you eat or what day you choose to rest and worship, we all end up end the grave in time. The other nations mentioned are indeed circumcised in the heart. In faith, they might go to church on Sunday ,or eat unclean meat but by the spiritual commandment to rest, they stumble because they continue to make false images of God. It is not Christianity or Islam or Judiasm that saves as whatever house you belong to, we are all commanded to stay in our place. Even in Christianity, we debate over a trinity and Jesus being God when the truth is God is a Spirit! And that Spirit makes Himself known in the person of Jesus Christ. The same Spirit which was given to us. But what's happening now is that Us, made in the image of God, place that image beneath the image of whatever religion we are married to and as such, fall under the curse.
I agree that the letter still stands for those under the law and to break any one of them is to break them all. But when Christ died to the flesh and rose again, we are to now live after the spirit. God is a Spirit who wrote the ten commandments with His own finger. This was to show the spirituality of these ten. The statutes and judgements that God commanded Moses to give was temporary. This part of the law has no spirituality in it and thus was placed on the side of the ark as a witness against us. Jesus took this out of the way in the letter to leave only that which was spiritual. God doesn't eat, have sex, sleep or does any of the things contained in those ordinances. I think a lot of people misunderstand me based off of the letter of what is means to obey the Sabbath. I'm trying to show how to obey it spiritually. As far as Muslims worshipping the moon god, the same can be made about some practices in the Christian religion as well (i.e. Christmas, Easter). In both cases, it is the image or system that a person worships (unknowingly) that brings judgement. Niether Christianity nor Islam can save you. It is only by the power of the Spirit of God that can.
Jeremiah 9:22-26
22Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.
23Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
24But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
25Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; 26Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.
These are not talking about just the physical children of these nation but the spiritual children as well. They all stumble at the spiritual Sabbath and thus are still under the law and the ordinances as a witness against them. Israel knows who the true God is and as such, they are circumcised in the flesh. But not in the heart. They bring themselves under the authority of the letter of the Sabbath and teach that those who do not obey will face judgement. They lack true faith in the Spirit. These people are those that teach that to eat unclean meat means death and adhere to the ordinances. Not in that what they practice is wrong, but to teach that those who worship on Sunday and eat unclean meat brings death upon themselves is the part of error. The truth is that no matter what you eat or what day you choose to rest and worship, we all end up end the grave in time. The other nations mentioned are indeed circumcised in the heart. In faith, they might go to church on Sunday ,or eat unclean meat but by the spiritual commandment to rest, they stumble because they continue to make false images of God. It is not Christianity or Islam or Judiasm that saves as whatever house you belong to, we are all commanded to stay in our place. Even in Christianity, we debate over a trinity and Jesus being God when the truth is God is a Spirit! And that Spirit makes Himself known in the person of Jesus Christ. The same Spirit which was given to us. But what's happening now is that Us, made in the image of God, place that image beneath the image of whatever religion we are married to and as such, fall under the curse.