The Seals storyline in The Book of Revelation

[LTL]

Rev. 12:10

"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

This is the midpoint in Chapter Twelve. The 3.5-year tribulation is over; where the beast and his false prophet have been destroyed in the winepress, as explained in the previous verses. And now the 3.5 year judgment is ready to begin. The loud voice is the angel of Rev. 1:1, announcing that the new millennium has arrived.

1) now is come (arrived) salvation
2) and strength
3) and the kingdom of our God
4) and the power of his Christ
5) for the accuser of our brethren is cast down (This is the Rev. 13:1 beast and the Rev. 13:11 false prophet cast into hell in Rev. 19:20 as referenced in the previous verse.)

From this we see that Chapter Nineteen as well as Chapter Fourteen have been concluded in reference to Chapter Twelve. The first is in the fall of Babylon storyline, and the second is in the mark of the beast storyline.

Basically this is the beginning of Chapter Fifteen where the beast and false prophet have been destroyed and the judgment in Chapter Sixteen is ready to begin.

 

[LTL]

Metaphors are fine as far as they are useful. But they have to be supported by scripture. Scripture does tell us what the beasts are and history records their coming into being. Scripture also provides time lines for these events occurring.

If you continue reading Daniel 7, you will see who the stone is...the Son of Man...who crushes these kingdoms and sets up an eternal kingdom. The last of these kingdoms is Rome. This dates events in the 1st century.

Again, can you establish from scripture a reference to the pope, Germany, Russia, and England?

I am not going into the Book of Daniel. Sorry!

 

[Cameron143]

I am not going into the Book of Daniel. Sorry!

That's fine, but much of the symbolism in the book of Revelation is found in the book of Daniel. So to understand Revelation, it is imperative to understand Daniel. We are to compare scripture with scripture.

I appreciate the discussion and thanks for sharing.

Grace and peace.

 

[LTL]

Rev. 12:11

"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

Another midpoint verse where the saints overcame the wicked dragon during the previous 3.5 year tribulation. They overcame him by giving their lives for their testimonies. This occurred when the dragon came against the saints (Rev. 13:5-7) to force them into taking the mark. Those who did not take the mark were killed (Rev. 13:15-16).

However, those who gave their lives for their testimonies have eternal life as shown in Rev. 20:4.

 

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Rev. 12:12

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

This is the beginning of the judgment here in Chapter Twelve. And it is easy to see, especially when looking at the parallel to Chapter Six

Rev. 6:9-11 is parallel to Rev. 12:9-11
and
Rev. 6:12-17 is parallel to Rev. 12:12-17

And since Rev. 6:12-17 are judgment verses, then Rev. 12:12-17 are as well. Thus, rejoice ye saints because you are going to be harvested in the judgment. But for the followers of the Rev. 13:11 and Rev. 13:1 beasts, you only have 3.5 years remaining. Again, the beast over the people called the earth is the false prophet of Rev. 13:11. And the beast over the people called the sea is the beast of Rev. 13:1.

 

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Rev. 12:13

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

In this verse we see Lucifer's response to loosing the tribulation war. That he comes back again with a new army to reengage the 144,000 in warfare (Rev. 16:12-16). However, this time it is in the 3.5 year judgment that ends in the wrath of God.

In other words, after Lucifer's two beasts got their spanking and sent to hell by the 144,000 as shown in Rev. 19:20. Then this low down dog comes back to fight again. But this time with a different set of demons. That is, the tribulation ends with the winepress (Rev. 14:17-20), and the judgment ends with the wrath of God (Rev. 16:17-21). In both cases demons are sent to hell.

And so Rev. 12:13 is simply Lucifer's reengagement into the war that he lost previously in the tribulation (Rev. 19:20-21). However this time the ending sends him to hell as well (Rev. 20:1-3).

 

[LTL]

Rev. 12:14

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

This is the harvest verse in Chapter Twelve, that begins with the advent of the seventh millennium. So it lasts for 3.5-years after which is the rapture from the planet takes place wherein the planet is burned.

So this Rev. 12:14 harvest begins shortly after the midpoint, and the saints are taken to a centralized location as shown in this verse. Whereas the 144,000 were taken on an exodus in Rev. 12:6, now the saints are harvested in the judgment.

And there are several things left out of Chapter Twelve, but the general outline of the seven years is given.

 

[LTL]

Rev. 12:15-17

15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The last three verses of Chapter Twelve (above) continue to address events of the judgement. The mouth is the judgment era false prophet, the dragon is the judgment era false government (Rev. 16:13-14), the woman is the saints of God, and the flood is the effort of Lucifer to prevent the harvest of those saints.

In Verse Sixteen the earth has earthquakes and other natural disasters to counter Lucifer's efforts. And in Verse Seventeen the false government of Lucifer seeks out the saints to prevent their gathering by the 144,000. Notice that the remnant have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Meaning that they have the blessing to live till Jesus comes. For them the blessing comes as a result of the Davidic Covenant.

remnant = remaining saints
having the testimony of Jesus Christ = the blessing to live till Jesus comes

The events of Chapter Twelve are expounded upon throughout the remainder of the mark of the beast storyline; Chapters Thirteen through Sixteen.

 

[LTL]

That's fine, but much of the symbolism in the book of Revelation is found in the book of Daniel. So to understand Revelation, it is imperative to understand Daniel. We are to compare scripture with scripture.

I appreciate the discussion and thanks for sharing.

Grace and peace.

C,
there are many interpretations of the Book of Revelation. And most if not all cross reference outside the book. But I take a different approach:; that I cross reverence between the four storylines. And it does help to have a working knowledge of Daniel. But for me it is only a supplement, and not the focus.

Understanding the metaphorical language is the key.

 

[Cameron143]

C,
there are many interpretations of the Book of Revelation. And most if not all cross reference outside the book. But I take a different approach:; that I cross reverence between the four storylines. And it does help to have a working knowledge of Daniel. But for me it is only a supplement, and not the focus.

Understanding the metaphorical language is the key.

Right, but that's my point. The books of Revelation and Daniel are intricately related. The symbolism in Daniel is the basis for the symbolism in Revelation.

 

[LTL]

Right, but that's my point. The books of Revelation and Daniel are intricately related. The symbolism in Daniel is the basis for the symbolism in Revelation.

The revelation is not based upon Daniel or any other OT text.
It was shown to John via the angel of Lord Jesus (Rev. 1:1). In fact, John wrote as a scribe to the sayings of Jesus as recorded in Chapters Two and three.

So in the hierarchy of the books of the Bible, the revelation is premiere, and Daniel is perhaps second place. So while it is good to know Daniel, where he interpreted Neb's dream and was shown the vision by Gabriel, and so forth. It does not reach to the level of the personal message from the Savior as recorded in the revelation. Additionally, it does not reach to the level of the revelation being given from the Father, to Jesus, to the angel, to John (Rev. 1:1).

The Revelation is the capstone upon the Bible. It contains the prophecy concerning the seven years of tribulation and judgment that we are given for our preparation.

 

[Cameron143]

The revelation is not based upon Daniel or any other OT text.
It was shown to John via the angel of Lord Jesus (Rev. 1:1). In fact, John wrote as a scribe to the sayings of Jesus as recorded in Chapters Two and three.

So in the hierarchy of the books of the Bible, the revelation is premiere, and Daniel is perhaps second place. So while it is good to know Daniel, where he interpreted Neb's dream and was shown the vision by Gabriel, and so forth. It does not reach to the level of the personal message from the Savior as recorded in the revelation. Additionally, it does not reach to the level of the revelation being given from the Father, to Jesus, to the angel, to John (Rev. 1:1).

The Revelation is the capstone upon the Bible. It contains the prophecy concerning the seven years of tribulation and judgment that we are given for our preparation.

The book of Revelation was written to the 1st century church. It isn't for our preparation; it was for their preparation. There are 3 timestamps in the first seven verses of the first chapter:

Verse 1:...things which must shortly come to pass...
Verse 3:...the time is at hand...
Verse 7:...they also which pierced Him...

Second, all scripture is authoritative; it is all the word of God.

Thirdly, it is worth mentioning that Daniel was told to seal up what he heard because it was for a future time. John was told to herald what he heard because what he was writing was imminent.

While I have enjoyed the conversation, you are unfortunately not seeking the full counsel of God. Grace and peace.

 

[LTL]

The book of Revelation was written to the 1st century church. It isn't for our preparation; it was for their preparation. There are 3 timestamps in the first seven verses of the first chapter:

Verse 1:...things which must shortly come to pass...
Verse 3:...the time is at hand...
Verse 7:...they also which pierced Him...

Second, all scripture is authoritative; it is all the word of God.

Thirdly, it is worth mentioning that Daniel was told to seal up what he heard because it was for a future time. John was told to herald what he heard because what he was writing was imminent.

While I have enjoyed the conversation, you are unfortunately not seeking the full counsel of God. Grace and peace.

While the early saints did benefit from the revelation, they were not the target audience.
And very few can receive the message.
That John is the Davidic King and he has written to his army of 144,000.
That they will stand with Christ during the tribulation (Rev. 14:1).
To put down the beast and his false prophet (Rev. 19:19-21).

Tell me where these two prophecies were fulfilled two thousand years ago?

Rev. 14:1, And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Rev. 19:19-21, And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Sorry, but these prophecies among others are yet to be fulfilled.

 

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In my opinion, Chapter Eight is the most complicated chapter in the Book of Revelation.

1) Not only because it transitions from the seals storyline to the trumpets storyline where the first is the 3.5-year tribulation and the second is the 3.5-year judgment.
2) But also because it transitions from the seals as the entire seven years of tribulation and judgment, to the trumpets as the entire seven years of tribulation and judgment.

So Chapter Eight plays two roles that overlap each other. And this characteristic also exists in other places of the revelation.

1) But in Chapter Eight it is magnified because it not only shows the midpoint and beginning of the judgment era, as in the first case above.
2) But also the beginning and ending of the seven years of tribulation and judgment, as in the second case above.

So the correct reading of Chapter Eight is
1) either as the midpoint of Chapter Fifteen followed by the first part of the Chapter Sixteen judgment era.
2) Or, secondly, as the judgment ending of Chapter Eleven followed by the tribulation beginning of Chapter Six.

And that is the best way to understand Chapter Eight.

Read it either
1) as the midpoint (Ch. 15) and the beginning of the judgment (Ch. 16)
2) or as the ending of the seven years (Ch. 11) and beginning of the seven years (Ch. 6)

1) midpoint Rev. 8:1-6 linking to Ch. 15, and judgment Rev. 8:7-13 linking to Rev. 16:2-7.
OR
2) ending Rev. 8:1-6 linking to Ch. 11, and beginning Rev. 8:7-13 linking to Rev. 6:1-8

With the above information, reading and understanding Chapter Eight is much easier.

 

[LTL]

Chapter Eight has thirteen verses that divide into two sets, Verses 8:1-6 and Verses 8:7-13.

And I explained this previously, that Chapter Eight can be read as the 1) midpoint (vv. 8:1-6, Ch. 15) and the 2) beginning of the judgment era (vv. 8:7-13, Ch. 16),
OR,
the 3) ending of the seven years (vv. 8:1-6, Ch. 11) and the 4) beginning of the seven years (vv. 8:7-13, Ch. 6).

Stated another way;
Set 8:1-6 pertains to the 1) midpoint (Ch. 15) of the seven years as well as the 3) ending of the seven years. (Ch. 11)
And Set 8:7-13 pertains to the 2) beginning of the judgment era (Ch. 16), as well as the 4) beginning of the seven years. (Ch. 6).

And it is a bit of a brain teaser that reads much easier as follows:
1) Rev. 8:1-6, midpoint (Ch. 15)
2) Rev. 8:7-13, beginning of the judgment era (Ch. 16)
3) Rev. 8:1-6, ending of the seven years (ch. 11)
4) Rev. 8:7-13, beginning of the seven years (Ch. 6)

And these two sets read much easier again when placed in chronological order:
4) Rev. 8:7-13, beginning of the seven years
1) Rev. 8:1-6, midpoint
2) Rev. 8:7-13, beginning of the judgment
3) Rev. 8:1-6, ending of the seven years

So the reading order is:
Rev. 8:7-13, tribulation begins
Rev. 8:1-6, tribulation ends
Rev. 8:7-13, judgment begins
Rev. 8:1-6, judgment ends

Technically, the tribulation ends with the destruction of the beast and his false prophet. And, the event that follows, which is the midpoint, tends to be considered as "in the judgment era." But as you can see, the midpoint is the end of the tribulation, as I have it above.

 

[LTL]

Chapter Eight,
The Tribulation Begins,
Rev. 8:7 that corresponds to Rev. 6:1-2

v. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
This verse is written in metaphor as follows:

The first angel sounded,
and there followed hail (This individual is the one that followed in Rev. 6:8. He is called the mouth of the beast in Chapter Thirteen, and is the false prophet in Rev. 13:11. In the end he goes to hell with the beast in Rev. 19:20).
and fire (This individual is the rider of the pale horse in Rev. 6:8 that is the beast of the sea in Rev. 13:1. The warfare in the next verses (vv. 8:8-9) comes from him).
mingled with blood, ( Here we see that the the two beasts of Rev. 6:8, also called the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, are members of the worlds population.)
and they were cast upon the earth: (They are brought to power upon the earth.)
and the third part of trees (a third part of the leaders of the earth)
was burnt up, (Followed the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth (vv. 13:1, 11) becoming spiritually dead Rev. 13:3, Rev. 13:8).
and all green grass was burnt up. (And all the world wondered after the beast and became spiritually dead Rev. 13:1, Rev. 13:8).

 

[LTL]

Chapter Eight,
The Tribulation Begins,
Rev. 8:8-9 that corresponds to Rev. 6:3-4

vv. 8:8-9 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

These verses are written in metaphor as follows:

And the second angel sounded,
and as it were a great mountain (The great mountain is a great nation.)
burning with fire (burning with fire is to be burned by the Rev. 13:1 beast who was mentioned in the previous verse, Rev. 8:7)
was cast into the sea: (Here we see that the great nation is cast into the sea as in the trash heap of history)
and the third part of the sea became blood; (The third part of the sea that are the followers of the Rev. 13:1 beast are killed along with the great nation.)
9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, (Creatures in the sea are followers of the Rev. 13:1 beast)
and had life, died; (These had spiritual life but now have spiritual death because they now follow the beast.)
and the third part of the ships were destroyed. (This is the burning of Babylon and the ships are noted in Rev. 18:17. Thus Babylon that is the great nation fell, and her burning continues from that fall. Chapters 17 and 18)

 

[LTL]

Chapter Eight,
The Tribulation Begins,
Rev. 8:10-11 that corresponds to Rev. 6:5-6

Rev. 8:10-11And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Again, the verses are in metaphor as follows:

And the third angel sounded,
and there fell a great star from heaven, (The fall of the great star is the fall of a great person.)
burning as it were a lamp, (He was burning as a lamp of Jesus Christ, a prophet. But he was not really a prophet but a pretender.)
and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, (This false prophet influenced a third of the armies of God)
and upon the fountains of waters; (And this false prophet influenced the women of God.)
11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: (The name of this false prophet is Wormwood.)
and the third part of the waters became wormwood; (And a third of the women became wormwood after the order of the false prophet)
and many men died of the waters, (And the women caused the man to die the spiritual deaths. This is taking the mark of the beast as warned against in Rev. 14:9-11)
because they were made bitter. (The men were bitter when they took the mark of the beast loosing their eternal salvation in Christ)

 

[LTL]

Chapter Eight,
The Tribulation Begins,
Rev. 8:12-13 that corresponds to Rev. 6:7-8

Rev. 8:12-13 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

And again the verses are in metaphor:

And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten, (The sun is the Savior as noted in Rev. 12:1. So here in Verse 8:12 the third of the followers of the Savior fall to darkness as noted in Rev. 12:4.)
and the third part of the moon, (The moon from Rev. 12:1 is noted here, that the followers of the Davidic King also fall. This is also referenced in the parable of the ten virgins where the unwise believers fall.)
and the third part of the stars; (And here are the saints again who fall to the Rev. 13:1 and Rev. 13:11 beasts. All of this is given in Rev. 6:7-8.
so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. (And while there is a literal component to these verses, the metaphorical is that the people are darkened due to following the two wicked beasts.
13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, And following the verses of the fall and burning of Babylon (Rev. 8:7-12), now comes the midpoint of the tribulation. And since the midpoint of the seven years belongs to the tribulation, then the midpoint of the tribulation likewise belongs to the fall and burning of Babylon.
saying with a loud voice, (The loud voice is the angel of Rev. 1:1)
Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! (The judgment upon Babylon (Rev. 8:7-12) is past, and now remains three additional judgments to come.