the second adam.

[Meridoc]

I agree, Christ was above his companions before he came to earth
I therefore he could not be raised above his companions again after he left this earth. He was already above them

Wait that statement means that he existed before he came to earth, and how could exist before(forever) and not be God, what do you believe he is?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree, Christ was above his companions before he came to earth
I therefore he could not be raised above his companions again after he left this earth. He was already above them

Yes, but as scripture said he was made lower than the angels (although only a little it says), While on earth, he had to leave his diety behind. WHich is why the HS had to enter him, because he no longer could do anything of himself. He needed Gods help to do all he did. he left that power behind.

 

[livingbygrace]

Wait that statement means that he existed before he came to earth, and how could exist before(forever) and not be God, what do you believe he is?

Do you not believe Christ existed before he came to earth?
Christ is the son of God

 

[Meridoc]

Yes of course, but your confusing the point as the son of God is God, the bible is quite clear, so if you believe one you must believe the other or you are deceiving yourself.

 

[livingbygrace]

Yes, but as scripture said he was made lower than the angels (although only a little it says), While on earth, he had to leave his diety behind. WHich is why the HS had to enter him, because he no longer could do anything of himself. He needed Gods help to do all he did. he left that power behind.

We completely agree concerning the Holy Spirit. Before I answer again please read the post I have made concerning scripture in Daniel on this thread and give me your thoughts on it. It was written about 20 minutes ago

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Phillipians 2

Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

He made himself nothing (ie equal to us) he was obedient, and thus exalted back into his place in heaven

Nice quote. One must ask. How could jesus MAKE HIMSLEF NOTHING, and take the form of man if he is not God?

 

[livingbygrace]

Yes of course, but your confusing the point as the son of God is God, the bible is quite clear, so if you believe one you must believe the other or you are deceiving yourself.

The Bible is crystal clear?

John lived with Christ on earth for three years, what did he say?

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

I would appreciate your thoughts on the verses in Daniel I quoted as it relates to our discussion on the verses in Hebrews

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We completely agree concerning the Holy Spirit. Before I answer again please read the post I have made concerning scripture in Daniel on this thread and give me your thoughts on it. It was written about 20 minutes ago

That spoke of Jesus at the end, has nothign to do with his status before he came to earth. that prophesy has not yet been fulfilled. Yes the ancient of days is the father. The son of man is one of Christ's titles. I am not sure what you were trying to get at with that post.

 

[Meridoc]

The Bible is crystal clear?

John lived with Christ on earth for three years, what did he say?

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

I would appreciate your thoughts on the verses in Daniel I quoted as it relates to our discussion on the verses in Hebrews

I did answer the daniel post check back

and in regards to the 1 John 4:12 verse God has not been seen ever in all his fullness, Jesus was in human likeness when he came on the earth and God is never seen in full glory in visions or the people would be struck dead as the bible says.

 

[livingbygrace]

Phillipians 2

Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

He made himself nothing (ie equal to us) he was obedient, and thus exalted back into his place in heaven

In my NIV it says
He did nlot consider equality with God something to bne grasped

Tell me.
What was the bait used to tempt Eve to eat the apple?

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil
Gen 3:5

Eve took the bait and so did Adam

Buty Christ did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, he rejected such a notion, and whjat was the rsult?

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
And gave him a name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus
Every knee shall blow and every tongue confess
That Jesus Christ is Lord
To the glory of God the Father

Phil2:9-11

 

[Meridoc]

The big issue here is you are giving me snippets not whole passages if you look at 1 John 4 starting at verse 9 you see that God in this instance is the Father, you need to look at the bigger picture, stop taking pieces out of context.

 

[livingbygrace]

Yes, Yes

You have to remember that this is a prophetic vision by Daniel of things to come, not something that happened before Jesus came, Jesus was and is part of the Godhead, the trinity.

and again this is Father giving to Son, not father to himself

So according to what you are saying the son had no authority, glory or soveriegn power until he came to earth, do you really believe that?

And no man worshipped Christ and he had no dominion until he came to earth, is that correct?

 

[Meridoc]

In my NIV it says
He did nlot consider equality with God something to bne grasped

Tell me.
What was the bait used to tempt Eve to eat the apple?

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil
Gen 3:5

Eve took the bait and so did Adam

Buty Christ did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, he rejected such a notion, and whjat was the rsult?

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
And gave him a name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus
Every knee shall blow and every tongue confess
That Jesus Christ is Lord
To the glory of God the Father

Phil2:9-11

To Jesus equality was not something to be grasped as he already was, read the whole verse "who being in the very nature of God did not consider equality with God something to be grasped(or retained)"

 

[livingbygrace]

The big issue here is you are giving me snippets not whole passages if you look at 1 John 4 starting at verse 9 you see that God in this instance is the Father, you need to look at the bigger picture, stop taking pieces out of context.

The one true God is the Father as Christ stated in John 17:3

 

[livingbygrace]

To Jesus equality was not something to be grasped as he already was, read the whole verse "who being in the very nature of God did not consider equality with God something to be grasped(or retained)"

What was Christ's nature that was of God? The spirit in him

Did Christ consider himself equal with God

The Father is greater than I John 14:28
The Father is greater than all John 10:29

 

[Meridoc]

So according to what you are saying the son had no authority, glory or soveriegn power until he came to earth, do you really believe that?

And no man worshipped Christ and he had no dominion until he came to earth, is that correct?

No you are twisting what I am saying the vision in Daniel is of a moment to come when Jesus went back to heaven after being on the earth, it speak nothing to Jesus' status beforehand. If you look at the old testament was Christ ever mentioned, no. Does that mean he didnt exist, no as John says he was i the beginning. But don't try and take daniels prophecy to mean anything other than what it is a vision of the future when Christ was raised up from earth.

 

[Meridoc]

What was Christ's nature that was of God? The spirit in him

Did Christ consider himself equal with God

The Father is greater than I John 14:28
The Father is greater than all John 10:29

Again. . .what state was Jesus in when he says these things? He was nothing, humbled to live like a man.

 

[Meridoc]

I am trying to as nice as I can but I am answering the same questions again and again, you just pick a new snippet of scripture to try and win your side of the debate. Most of what you are trying to use in context doesn't say what you want it to say. If you refuse to listen I can't make you see.

 

[Red33]

I did answer the daniel post check back

and in regards to the 1 John 4:12 verse God has not been seen ever in all his fullness, Jesus was in human likeness when he came on the earth and God is never seen in full glory in visions or the people would be struck dead as the bible says.

You will find, if not already, that LBG is not trying to learn anything concerning who Christ is, but is trying to convince you and others that you are not understanding the scriptures the way you should and that would be according to his own understanding. You will not be able to persuade him of what you believe in your heart to be the truth concerning Jesus Christ, the second Adam, who was God in the flesh. He will not bow to the doctrine of Christ, that the Holy Spirit has confirmed and witnessed in the scriptures, that makes Him God with us. To him Christ was only a reflection of the Father and not the exact expressed image and form of His person. He makes every effort to circumvent that Christ was God in the flesh as the only wise and true God, our Saviour (Jude 25). His questions all come from a heart of unbelief concerning the Son being equal to the Father. You can proceed as God leads you but unbelief is a powerful force of the heart that only God can turn.

 

[livingbygrace]

Let me ask you this

In my vision at night I looked and there before me was one like the son of man coming with the clouds of Heaven.
He approached the ancient of days and was led into his prescence
He was given authoirity, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him
His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed
Daniel 7:13&143

Are you serious? The above is concerning when Christ had returned to Heaven after being crucified?

So Christ had no authority, glory or sovereign power before he returned to Heaven

Christ had glory with the Father BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE

All authority in Heaven and on earth HAS BEEN GIVEN TO ME. Matt 28:18