the second adam.

[Red33]

But you essentially think and say the same about me because I challenge the error-upon-error of Filioque and Trinity; though I adamantly affirm everything you've just posted.

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. The express image of God's substance (not a separate "person"). The fullness of the Godhead... bodily. God is NOT three "persons".

But you require belief in the Trinity doctrine of men, or judge someone unsaved and devoid of eternal life.

The above statement is something that LBG has put in your head not me. He does that to turn others against me and what I believe the scriptures teach. He always has and always will because he is a trouble-maker. He is the one who wanted me to judge if one was saved or not because of how they lived having sin in their life even though they professed Christ and I would not do that. I have never said anything of the sort, that if you believe that the Son was not God in the flesh that you can not have eternal life. Never said it and do not believe it. When you believe upon the Son the Holy Spirit will make sure that you know that Jesus Christ was God Almighty in the flesh, and you can be sure of that. The Son came to reveal the Father and when you believe upon the Son, you have believed upon the Father who sent Him. Jesus said, I and the Father are one, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Now that is pretty clear. He that believes upon the Son has life and he that believeth not upon the Son has not life. The Son has life in Himself and gives it to those that believe.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Hi, LBG-

I believe I can answer every one of your questions if I've kept track correctly. I haven't done so because I prefer to watch the Trinis fail to do so; and because it requires Greek exegesis, which falls outside of what you view as a simple reading of Scripture.

I hope you will look past Trinitarian indoctrinated bias and keeping searching the deep mysteries of God.

 

[livingbygrace]

The above statement is something that LBG has put in your head not me.

From what I have read of PPS posts I hardly think I will sway him, he has a mind of his own as I have seen

He does that to turn others against me and what I believe the scriptures teach. He always has and always will because he is a trouble-maker. He is the one who wanted me to judge if one was saved or not because of how they lived having sin in their life even though they professed Christ and I would not do that.

You know the example given in reference to what you are saying
The true Gospel would not say such a person could be saved, you will not endorse the true Gospel


I have never said anything of the sort, that if you believe that the Son was not God in the flesh that you can not have eternal life

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



Never said it and do not believe it. When you believe upon the Son the Holy Spirit will make sure that you know that Jesus Christ was God Almighty in the flesh, and you can be sure of that. The Son came to reveal the Father and when you believe upon the Son, you have believed upon the Father who sent Him. Jesus said, I and the Father are one, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Now that is pretty clear. He that believes upon the Son has life and he that believeth not upon the Son has not life. The Son has life in Himself and gives it to those that believe.

You have made it clear that anyone who does not believe Christ is God himself has the spirit of antichrist in them and is condemned

 

[livingbygrace]

have never said anything of the sort, that if you believe that the Son was not God in the flesh that you can not have eternal life. .

Post 367 in the thread
Was God manifest in the flesh, you wrote and I quote

If you continue to deny that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, that is a spirit of antichrist and a heart of unbelief. You would have to humble yourself and turn from that unbelief and from that error in your heart to be reconciled to God through the truth

I could if I spent time(which I cannot be bothered to do) find stronger written condemnatioon than the above

Please explain these two comments and the contrast in them

 

[livingbygrace]

Hi, LBG-

I believe I can answer every one of your questions if I've kept track correctly. I haven't done so because I prefer to watch the Trinis fail to do so; and because it requires Greek exegesis, which falls outside of what you view as a simple reading of Scripture.

I hope you will look past Trinitarian indoctrinated bias and keeping searching the deep mysteries of God.

The thing that galls me is that they have no humility to admit they cannot answer all the questions put to them

I admit I cannot answer every question on this subject

I guess I must be less proud and have more humility then they do

 

[journey41]

The above statement is something that LBG has put in your head not me. He does that to turn others against me and what I believe the scriptures teach. He always has and always will because he is a trouble-maker. He is the one who wanted me to judge if one was saved or not because of how they lived having sin in their life even though they professed Christ and I would not do that. I have never said anything of the sort, that if you believe that the Son was not God in the flesh that you can not have eternal life. Never said it and do not believe it. When you believe upon the Son the Holy Spirit will make sure that you know that Jesus Christ was God Almighty in the flesh, and you can be sure of that. The Son came to reveal the Father and when you believe upon the Son, you have believed upon the Father who sent Him. Jesus said, I and the Father are one, if you have seen me you have seen the Father. Now that is pretty clear. He that believes upon the Son has life and he that believeth not upon the Son has not life. The Son has life in Himself and gives it to those that believe.

[/QUOTE]It seems to me that you totally refuse to see the truth that Jesus is the Son of God. No matter what scripture we put to you, you will never understand because you will not see.

If you look at Jesus, you are looking at the IMAGE OF GOD. Not God.

Jesus said I am the Son of God. but you said No Lord, you are not the Son of God. You are God.

So you claiming Jesus wrong and you are right?

Have you got more knowledge than Jesus? Maybe you should change the bible? To make your doctrine harmonise because at the moment it has got more holes than swiss cheese. It will take a long time to plug the holes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/QUOTE]The son of God is the Son of God.

John 8:42 If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I PROCEED FORTH and CAME FROM GOD: NEITHER CAME I OF MYSELF, but HE SENT ME.
The WORD proceeded out of Gods mouth. And that Word was turned into flesh.

John 8:43 WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND MY SPEECH? EVEN BECAUSE YE CANNOT HEAR MY WORD.

Now God is putting Jesus in charge of the angels (God gave Jesus power to be in charge)

Hebrews 1:4 Being MADE so much BETTER THAN THE ANGELS, as he has by INHERITANCE obtained a MORE EXCELLENT NAME THAN THEY (angels).
All power comes from God, and God gave power to his SON. Because now his Son has got all the power doesn't mean that he is God himself. Jesus has been appointed to be in charge UNDER Gods authority.

Hebrews 1:5 for unto which of the Angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a SON.
None of the angels.

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he brings in the firstbegotten into the world, he says AND LET ALL THE ANGELS WORSHIP HIM
Gods Command to the angels to worship Christ.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he says, who makes his angels spirit and his ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1:8 But on to the SON he said. THY THRONE O GOD, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
God has given Jesus power to be God. So he is God now, still not the Father.

Hebrews 1:9 Thou has loved righteousness and hated iniquity; therefore God, EVEN YOUR GOD had annointed thee with the oil of gladness above THY FELLOWS (Jesus still worships his God)

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
You see, Jesus is now sitting next to God as God. Who is going to make his enemies his footstool? Answer: God. Not his son.

God created everything by his Word, and his Word is made flesh and his name is called Jesus.
In the beginning the Word was with God.

Genesis 1:26 And God said (spoke) Let us make man in our image .....
Who is us? That is God and his Word, which God turned that Word into flesh, and his name is Jesus.

Jesus became Gods son when he was born. He was also called the son of david and the son of man, and the Son of God. The Word is the Word of God. But since he was turned into flesh, that flesh became the Son of God.

Jesus forgives sin because he has been given the authority from God. You give your Word authority. Your word cannot give you authority. Hope this makes things clearer for you.

Was this directed at me? If it was. No it does not make things any clearer. Who was jesus before he came to earth?

 

[journey41]

Was this directed at me? If it was. No it does not make things any clearer. Who was jesus before he came to earth?

THE WORD !

 

[eternally-gratefull]

THE WORD !

That does not tell me anything, can you be more specific.

 

[journey41]

That does not tell me anything, can you be more specific.

[/QUOTE]Before the Word was turned into flesh, it was the Word that was with God (the Word of God
How much more simple can I explain it? I am not mocking, but it is so clear to me.

Picture God there. Picture that he has his word in him. He tells us that his Word is truth, and that he does everything by that Word. So when God commands, his Word obeys and executes his will. God says let there be light, and the Word performs it. The Word does the work. That Word comes from inside of God, and it is the same as God commanding with his word to the womb to concieve a baby. In that baby is put the fullness of God. So this baby grows and has the Word of God in him. So he spoke the Word of God while he was on earth. Now the baby is the word of God in flesh (Jesus) The flesh was crucified, resurected & is now sitting on the right hand of God (next to him) This Word now has an identity, a name that we can relate to (Jesus Christ)

I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/QUOTE]Before the Word was turned into flesh, it was the Word that was with God (the Word of God How much more simple can I explain it? I am not mocking, but it is so clear to me.

This makes no sense whatsoever. But if you believe this. so be it.I am glad it is clear to you. But scripture does not support this.

Picture God there. Picture that he has his word in him. He tells us that his Word is truth, and that he does everything by that Word. So when God commands, his Word obeys and executes his will. God says let there be light, and the Word performs it. The Word does the work. That Word comes from inside of God, and it is the same as God commanding with his word to the womb to concieve a baby. In that baby is put the fullness of God. So this baby grows and has the Word of God in him. So he spoke the Word of God while he was on earth. Now the baby is the word of God in flesh (Jesus) The flesh was crucified, resurected & is now sitting on the right hand of God (next to him) This Word now has an identity, a name that we can relate to (Jesus Christ)

I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.

Well it makes it more clear what you believe, but I am sorry if I do not believe it. Jesus was with the father, he was not the father, before time began. Jesus himself asked that the father would return him to the glory he had before the world was. Meaning they were two seperate induviduals. Not one. If it is as you say. Jesus would not be sitting next to the father now. They would be unified again. Because this is where the father returned him to. It is the glory Christ had with the father.

 

[journey41]

This makes no sense whatsoever. But if you believe this. so be it.I am glad it is clear to you. But scripture does not support this.

Picture God there. Picture that he has his word in him. He tells us that his Word is truth, and that he does everything by that Word. So when God commands, his Word obeys and executes his will. God says let there be light, and the Word performs it. The Word does the work. That Word comes from inside of God, and it is the same as God commanding with his word to the womb to concieve a baby. In that baby is put the fullness of God. So this baby grows and has the Word of God in him. So he spoke the Word of God while he was on earth. Now the baby is the word of God in flesh (Jesus) The flesh was crucified, resurected & is now sitting on the right hand of God (next to him) This Word now has an identity, a name that we can relate to (Jesus Christ)

O.k then, can you tell me which scripture does not support it? You are welcome to show me the scriptures for edifying.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.

Well it makes it more clear what you believe, but I am sorry if I do not believe it. Jesus was with the father, he was not the father, before time began. Jesus himself asked that the father would return him to the glory he had before the world was. Meaning they were two seperate induviduals. Not one. If it is as you say. Jesus would not be sitting next to the father now. They would be unified again. Because this is where the father returned him to. It is the glory Christ had with the father.

[/QUOTE]Jesus was placed next to his Father after his resurection. In the beginning, the Word came out of the Father and was with him.

John 16:27 I came out from God.

The Word of God is a LIVING Word. It was WITH HIM from everlasting. It came out of him and was WITH HIM. Hard to understand because spiritual laws are not the same as ours. God is the authority and his Word is always with him. So imagine, God and his LIVING WORD BESIDE him performing his will. Well this Word can't control God. God controls his Word. He tells his word what to do. God is in charge. His Word is Spirit. God is spirit & his Word is Spirit.

Christ and God are unified in SPIRIT. The glory Christ had before was because he was with God all the time. He was only known as the Word then. Now he is known as the Word of God.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: And his name is called THE WORD OF GOD.

You see, back to the Word of God again.

It is not God that is coming back, but his Word.

 

[Red33]

[/QUOTE]It seems to me that you totally refuse to see the truth that Jesus is the Son of God. No matter what scripture we put to you, you will never understand because you will not see.

If you look at Jesus, you are looking at the IMAGE OF GOD. Not God.

Jesus said I am the Son of God. but you said No Lord, you are not the Son of God. You are God.

So you claiming Jesus wrong and you are right?

Have you got more knowledge than Jesus? Maybe you should change the bible? To make your doctrine harmonise because at the moment it has got more holes than swiss cheese. It will take a long time to plug the holes

Put yourself in Philip's place, as a disciple that is following Christ, and you ask the Lord to show you the Father and this is the response you get from Him...

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Ponder this answer in your heart and let the Holy Spirit minister to you what Jesus was really saying. In (v.10) Jesus seems to be dealing with Philip's heart that was in unbelief and the tone of His answer reflects that also.

 

[wakeup]

Put yourself in Philip's place, as a disciple that is following Christ, and you ask the Lord to show you the Father and this is the response you get from Him...

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Ponder this answer in your heart and let the Holy Spirit minister to you what Jesus was really saying. In (v.10) Jesus seems to be dealing with Philip's heart that was in unbelief and the tone of His answer reflects that also.

you seem to be still of no understanding; looking at Jesus is AS looking at God, because he is the express image of God(mirror image) does not mean that jesus is the father.

''wakeup''.

 

[wakeup]

I just don't get how people sit here and reject Jesus as God, just because they don't understand the trinity concept. And Jesus did claim to be God and even if he didn't say it, he claimed to be the Messiah which if you know anything about OT prophecy that equates to the same thing.

Luke 22:70 (New King James Version)

70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”
So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”

is the word trinity the word of God??? or is it an import word.??it is a roman import.
Jesus admits that what??? that he is the son of God. (not God)

 

[wakeup]

As you have not been vociferous in condemniong people who simply stand on the fact that Jesus is the son of God, may I put something to you?

I believe that the spirit proceeds from the Father and in Christ He fully exhibits. amen

I believe the universe was made of God and by his son amen

Or by the Father and thorugh the son, depending on which Biblical translation you read amen

I believe that the son is the radiance of God's glory and has the very nature of His Father amen

He is the word of God. amen
But then we have two choices. We can use our rational mind and say, therefore Christ is God Himself, or we can not use our rational mind and stand on the plainest of scripture on this subject

I have never met anyone who can answer every verse of scripture put to them on this subject, therefore people who only believe Christ is the son of God should not be criticised by those who see Christ as God Himself

For it is a fact
You cannot give me one scriptjure that demands a person believes Christ is the one true God Himself to have eternal life amen
And you cannot give me one scripture where Christ plainly commanded anyone to believe he was the one true God Himself amen

Scripture CLEARLY states according to Christ's own words that if a person believes he is the son of God they have eternal life on that basis, nothing was added to that, John says amen

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he in God amen
1 John 4:15
That was not added to as do many add to add to it on cc and other Christian websites

So what should a person stand on? The plain words of the Bible or not?

amen brother our eyes are opened,praise the almighty.

 

[livingbygrace]

is the word trinity the word of God??? or is it an import word.??it is a roman import.
Jesus admits that what??? that he is the son of God. (not God)

Christ claimed to be the son of God. He never commanded anyone to believe he was the one true God Himself and no-one can give you a scripture where he did

Peter said Jesus was the Christ, the son of the Living God, Christ said he was blessed for saying so and his Father in Heaven had revealed that to Peter

The Jews believed he claimed to be THE SON OF GOD
John 19:7

And under oath Christ confirmed he was the son of God
Matt 26:64

I would like to know where people get there spiritual authority from to demand people see Christ in a way that Christ never demanded anyone to see him, oh such pride and arrogance

 

[wakeup]

Actually it is more confusing to believe Jesus is not God. How can jesus be above the angles? For only God can be this. How can Jesus be their before creation and help create all things if he is not God. How can jesus forgive sin, for even as he states only God can forgive sin (he tried to get the jews to see this, but only a few saw it) Jesus is Gods son, He was Gods son before time, Would not Gods son also be God?

Jesus is the son of God: Jesus only became God because the father says to the angels, and to us to worship him. but that still does not make Jesus the father: he is worshipped as the father is worshipped,but that still does not make him the father.the father is always in authority. always in authority of his word: his word can never be in charge of God. YOUR WORD CAN NEVER BE IN CHARGE OF YOU. we address Jesus as LORD,we never can call him father;for God is our one father.Jesus our one Lord. but we can call God LORD. when Jesus apears to you; you will call him LORD,you wont call him father.

''WAKEUP''.

 

[phil36]

Wakeup and LBG,

I think it is about time you both woke up and started Living By grace!


By denying Christ and who He says He is, you deny the turht therefore the 2 of you are not of God nor God's children. you both need to repnet from your idolatrous nonsense.

 

[livingbygrace]

Wakeup and LBG,

I think it is about time you both woke up and started Living By grace!


By denying Christ and who He says He is, you deny the turht therefore the 2 of you are not of God nor God's children. you both need to repnet from your idolatrous nonsense.

Hi Phil

Have you found a sermon yet from a Baptist church that states if a person believes that Christ is the son of God but not God Himself he can have no eternal life.

After all you believe that that belief means someone is condemned. Surely your church must preach plainly something on which eternal life hinges. I am looking forward to listening to the sermon when you can give me the link

Christ claimed to be the son of God
The pharisees believed he claimed to be the son of God
Peter confessed him to be the son of God
Under oath Christ confirmed he was the son of God

Oh and from where do you get your spiritual authority to demand what Christ did not command concerning how a person must see him to have eternal life?