The Security Of The Believer

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 16, 2023

ChatGPT (A.I. Program discussion):

My question:

Are Baptists Protestant?

ChatGPT reply:

Yes, Baptists are generally considered Protestant. They emerged from the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century and share some theological similarities with other Protestant denominations, though they also have distinct beliefs and practices.

My reply:

Can you provide sources?

ChatGPT reply:

Certainly! You can refer to reputable sources such as historical and theological encyclopedias, academic books, or official statements from Baptist organizations. Online resources like the Encyclopedia Britannica or religious studies databases can provide in-depth information on the Protestant nature of Baptists.

Source:
Chat.Openai.com

Nehemiah6 · Dec 16, 2023

Bible_Highlighter said:

Really? You want truth from a machine? You have a very serious problem. And no, Baptists are DEFINITELY NOT Protestants. The existed before the Reformation.

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 16, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

It’s not really a machine. It is more a software program that relies on a particular database. Like Google, it is merely a tool.

You said:

So you never used software programs before to help with productivity and learning? Does your family or friends use software programs to benefit in productivity and learning?

You said:

I have listed reputable sources like encyclopedias, etcetera. Perhaps you should write them and tell them how they have been wrong these past several decades.

NightTwister · Dec 16, 2023

Bible_Highlighter said:

ChatGPT (A.I. Program discussion):

My question:

Are Baptists Protestant?

ChatGPT reply:

Yes, Baptists are generally considered Protestant. They emerged from the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century and share some theological similarities with other Protestant denominations, though they also have distinct beliefs and practices.

My reply:

Can you provide sources?

ChatGPT reply:

Certainly! You can refer to reputable sources such as historical and theological encyclopedias, academic books, or official statements from Baptist organizations. Online resources like the Encyclopedia Britannica or religious studies databases can provide in-depth information on the Protestant nature of Baptists.

Source:
Chat.Openai.com

This explains much about how you arrived at your theology.

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

Well, in reality, I was born again in 1992.
I started real serious Bible studies since 2010/2011 and talked about numerous biblical topics in person and online using Scripture. The ChatGPT program is pretty recent. It came out February 1st, 2023. So your joke is merely a mirage. Plus, the main reason why I use ChatGPT was not to figure out theology.

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 17, 2023

mailmandan said:

Dear Dan:

I have not forgotten about your post addressing this topic.

Just to let you know, I have been busy and I have been formulating a reply to address your points. So I appreciate your patience.

May God’s peace and blessings be upon you.

Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.

Romans34 · Dec 17, 2023

NightTwister said:

I guess I should have used the word 'Anabaptists', but I was thinking in terms of "Baptist Forefathers" when I used the word "Baptists". But I have also read about some groups declared to be 'Anabaptists' that historically were not actually Baptists. Nonetheless, Baptists preceeded Protestants, so the only ones that ARE Protestant are those who are self-declared. Though there are some who call themselves "Baptist" to this day that never were Baptist.

Kroogz · Dec 17, 2023

Evmur said:

Election and predestination have be so mishandled, it's hard to explain anymore. We all have biases that blind us from their true meaning.

From my perspective and from my studies this is how I see them at this moment:

Election and predestination are for believers only. They are not describing how God chooses/elects to save individuals. Or that salvation/damnation is predetermined for specific individuals. Salvation is equal opportunity, equal privilege for all.

Before the foundation of the world, God had a pre-designed plan for the believer to operate in.

After salvation we are elected for service. This could mean being a pastor. Or it could be as simple as loving your wife as Christ loves her.
And He has a predestined plan for us. And it really is simple. Grow in His grace and knowledge(study His word.)

Predestination/pre-designed plan for each believer:

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

Kroogz · Dec 17, 2023

Kroogz said:

Just for clarity.

We all can possibly have biases that blind us from their true meaning.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 17, 2023

Kroogz said:

This is correct. And election and predestination are for the perfection of the saints, who will also be glorified (1 John 3:1-3; Rom 8:29,30). The Calvinistic interpretation is a violation of God's offer of salvation to all mankind. It is "another gospel".

For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Paul says "them he also glorified" as though it is already an accomplished fact. But the glorification will occur at the Resurrection/Rapture. These verse s further establish the eternal security of the believer.

Evmur · Dec 17, 2023

Kroogz said:

Election and predestination have be so mishandled, it's hard to explain anymore. We all have biases that blind us from their true meaning.

From my perspective and from my studies this is how I see them at this moment:

Election and predestination are for believers only. They are not describing how God chooses/elects to save individuals. Or that salvation/damnation is predetermined for specific individuals. Salvation is equal opportunity, equal privilege for all.

Before the foundation of the world, God had a pre-designed plan for the believer to operate in.

After salvation we are elected for service. This could mean being a pastor. Or it could be as simple as loving your wife as Christ loves her.
And He has a predestined plan for us. And it really is simple. Grow in His grace and knowledge(study His word.)

Predestination/pre-designed plan for each believer:

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

in short salvation is for whoever will
to be a people to be conformed to Christ is for those predestined and chosen.
the wicked will be turned into hell ... only Jesus will judge.

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 17, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

This is correct. And election and predestination are for the perfection of the saints, who will also be glorified (1 John 3:1-3; Rom 8:29,30). The Calvinistic interpretation is a violation of God's offer of salvation to all mankind. It is "another gospel".

For whom he did foreknow,
he also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of his Son,
that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified:
and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Paul says "them he also glorified" as though it is already an accomplished fact. But the glorification will occur at the Resurrection/Rapture. These verse s further establish the eternal security of the believer.

I addressed this portion of Romans 8 in…

post #976.

mailmandan · Dec 18, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Notice in Philippians 2:12 that Paul said to "work out" your salvation and NOT "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work out" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification, which is the result of being set apart for God's work and involves the process of being conformed to the image of Christ.

This conforming to Christ involves the work of the person, but it is still God working in the believer to produce more of a godly character and life in the person who has already been justified by faith. In verse 13, Paul goes on to say, "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Ongoing sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) we are still justified by faith in Christ. (Romans 5:1) Where justification is a legal declaration that is instantaneous, ongoing sanctification is a process.

In regard to "fear and trembling," it pertains to a healthy fear of offending God through disobedience and a righteous awe and respect or reverence for Him. (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 2:11; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2) Prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago, I basically saw God as a tyrant who couldn't wait to punish me every time I messed up and throw me into hell for not being "good enough." That is an unhealthy fear of bondage and insecurity which is not from above!

Paul uses the same phrase "fear and trembling" in 2 Corinthians 7:15 in which he refers to Titus as being encouraged by the reception of him by the Corinthians "with fear and trembling," that is, with humility and respect for his position as a minister of Jesus Christ. In 1 Corinthians 2:3, we see that Paul himself came to the Corinthian church in "weakness and fear, and with much trembling" in regard to the huge responsibility and critical importance of the work in which he was engaged.

mailmandan · Dec 18, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

I see this relating to God's foreknowledge rather than fatalistic determination.

In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them.

Yes, Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

Grace through Faith Alone Verses Explained:

Introduction:

The Bible teaches there are two aspects of salvation:

(1) We are saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5) (Romans 4:3-5).

(2) We are saved in the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life (Which is a secondary aspect of salvation that takes place over the course of our whole life) (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Romans 8:13) (Galatians 6:8-9).

To learn more involving Scripture, see this thread here.

However, most Christians believe we are saved by a belief alone in Jesus and or the finished work of the cross plus nothing else. They believe one set of verses on how God’s grace saves us through faith without works, and yet they fail to rightly divide to understand that such verses are referring to our “Initial Salvation.” So they ignore or falsely interpret all verses in the New Testament that deal with Sanctification or works (involving the secondary aspect of salvation) as somehow defending Belief Alone Salvation. Another group of Christians (a smaller group) has the exact opposite problem. They take James 2:17 and James 2:24 to the most wrong extreme, believing that faith can never exist as a belief alone for eternal life involving our Initial Salvation. So they ignore and or falsely interpret all verses dealing with being saved by God’s grace without works (involving our Initial Salvation) as Works Salvation. They generally believe you have to be water baptized (a work) in order to be initially saved. The following verses below prove we are saved initially by a belief alone in Jesus as our Savior, and the gospel message (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

#1. Ephesians 2:8-9

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

In context: Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to Initial Salvation. One, we have been quickened (i.e., made alive) (Ephesians 2:1). How many times is a believer quickened or made alive? Just one time. Two, Ephesians 2:8 says that we are saved by God’s grace, and it is the gift of God. How many times do you receive a gift? Just one time, right? So, Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about “Initial Salvation.” Ephesians 2:8-9 is “the first aspect of salvation” of being saved by God’s grace without the deeds of the Law. But that does not mean there is not a second aspect of salvation that follows, though. In fact, we know there is if you were to read and believe 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (Which is a part of being saved by God’s grace). But there is a call of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:14 (not that it is the gospel). The call of the gospel (verse 14) is that God has chosen you for salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth (verse 13) (Please read very slowly 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 several times in prayer). 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is talking about Progressive Sanctification by the Spirit, which is a secondary aspect of our salvation. Not convinced? Well, please carefully and slowly read Galatians 6:8-9 and Romans 8:13, too.

#2. Titus 3:5

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

This, again, is referring to our “Initial Salvation.”

Let's read the verse in context:

Titus 3:3-7

3 “For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Verse 3 says we were at one time foolish and disobedient in our past life. It’s not saying we are still disobedient as a believer now, and yet we are still somehow saved by His grace (despite our disobedience).

Verse 4-5 is saying that until after the kindness and love of God (Jesus Christ) appeared unto men, He saved us by His mercy. This is a one-time event. He saved us once by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. This is in our Initial Salvation. We were renewed by the Holy Ghost once when we were first saved by God’s grace (Jesus) and His mercy (Which is a process of salvation that is not by works of righteousness that we have done because mercy is the basis of this aspect of salvation).
Verse 7 says that we are being justified by his grace. This is again referring to a one-time past event when we first came to the Lord Jesus Christ in receiving His grace and mercy because that is the primary context (verses 3-6). Now, we can continue to access grace by standing in faith. Romans 5:2 says, “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” But what does that faith eventually look like after our Initial Salvation? Well, according to James 2:17, faith without works is dead. According to James 2:24, we are justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:21 suggests Abraham was justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar. Hebrews 11:17 calls this work of offering up Isaac upon the altar as “faith.” For it is written: “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17).
Verse 7 also says we SHOULD be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The word “should” is not a guarantee. Meaning we should be made heirs of eternal life, but it is determined based on our conditional faith and faithfulness.

In fact, Titus 3:8 says we are to affirm works constantly.
Titus 3:14 says that believers are to learn to maintain good works that they are not unfruitful. Being unfruitful is spiritually bad, according to the Bible. We know that those who turn God’s grace into lasciviousness whose fruit is withered and who have no fruit are false believers (See: Jude 1:4, and Jude 1:12). John the Baptist says, “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10). So every tree that does not bring forth fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

So again, Titus 3:5 is not teaching we are perpetually saved by a belief alone our whole lives with no works. Titus 3:5 is merely describing how we are FIRST saved by God’s grace and mercy. Paul emphasized that this first aspect of salvation in being saved by God’s grace is not by works of righteousness that we have done. But why would Paul emphasize this point about how we are not saved by works of righteousness?

Again, Paul fought against the false belief of “Circumcision Salvationism.”

Titus 1:10 says, “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:”

Paul says in Galatians 2:3, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
Paul says in Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”

In other words, if a person thought they had to be first circumcised to be saved, they would be making a work (circumcision) the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation instead of having faith in Jesus Christ and His mercy. Hence, why Paul said, not by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us (Which takes place in our Initial Salvation).

Again, see Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24 (to learn more about the false belief of Circumcision Salvationism).

[Continued in next post]:

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

#3. Romans 9:16, and Romans 11:6

Romans 9:16

“So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”

Romans 11:6

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

Most Christians know that Romans chapters 9 through 11 (Romans 9-11) deal with Israel as a nation and Paul's desire to see them initially saved. So obviously, the Israelites would need to experience God’s grace through faith without works first (the 1st aspect of salvation) before they could ever be concerned yet about Sanctification (Which is the 2nd aspect of salvation). They needed to be focused on the milk of the Word (God’s grace - 1 Corinthians 3:2, Hebrews 5:12-13) and not the meat of the Word (Which is to discern between good and evil - Hebrews 5:14). The problem is that Perpetual Belief Alone Christians tend to take these verses to the farthest wrong end of the spectrum just as Perpetual Works Alone Christians tend to take James 2:17, and James 2:24 to the farthest wrong end of the other side of the spectrum. So Paul is talking to the Jew (Who had a works-only mindset) who needs to be saved by the first aspect of salvation (Which is by God’s grace without works). Therefore, in Romans 9:16 (written to the “works alone focused Jew”), Paul is telling them that it is not “him” (the Jew) that wills or runs (doing works alone with no grace), but it is God who shows mercy. It’s the same concept in Romans 11:6. For if a person believed in “Works Alone Salvationism” like the Jews did at that time (thinking they had to circumcise others first to be saved — Acts 15:1) then they would not understand the ‘first aspect of salvation’ of being saved by God’s grace without works. For if it is grace, then it is no more of works (Works Alone Salvationism); otherwise, grace (in the 1st aspect of salvation) is no more grace. But if be of “Works Alone Salvationism,” then it is no more grace, otherwise works would no longer be “works” (Meaning, if there is no salvation by God’s grace, then the work of God done through the believer cannot really be the work God that He intended for His people). For the Jew did exterior human works, but God desires to do the good work through them (Philippians 2:13). Jesus Himself said without me, you can do nothing (John 15:5).

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

Romans 4:3-5

3 “For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

A - Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness, and to him that works not believes on him… his faith is counted for righteousness.

Paul was arguing against a particular heresy at that time, which I call “Circumcision Salvationism.” This was a false heresy that said a person had to first “be saved by circumcision” instead of having faith in Jesus, for this heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council in Acts 15.

Acts of the Apostles 15:1 says, “And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:5 says, But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”
Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says, “Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Paul also fought against this heresy, as well.

Galatians 2:3 says, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:”
Galatians 5:2 says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.”
Galatians 5:6 says, “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.”
Galatians 6:15 (NLT) says, “It doesn't matter whether we have been circumcised or not. What counts is whether we have been transformed into a new creation.”
1 Corinthians 7:18-19 says, 18 For instance, a man who was circumcised before he became a believer should not try to reverse it. And the man who was uncircumcised when he became a believer should not be circumcised now. (NLT) 19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.” (NASB).

So we learn in Acts 15:1 certain men who came down from Judaea taught the brethren that unless they are circumcised after the manner of Moses, they cannot be saved. This is why Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing because they thought circumcision was how you first get saved (instead of first being saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ).

In fact, the Jewish Christian elders in Jerusalem said this to Paul:

“And they are informed of you, that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.” (Acts 21:21).

For if a person thought they had to first “be initially saved by circumcision,” they would be making the Law or Works the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation instead of faith in Jesus as one’s Savior (John 14:1) (1 John 5:20) (John 3:16), and believing the gospel message that saves (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) (Acts 10:39-45).

(Note: I do not approve of slapping others, and I do not encourage anyone to read Batman comics or watch the films. The point here is looking to Scripture to understand the mind of Paul and why he spoke like he did in Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, Romans 11:6, etcetera.).

This is why Paul spoke negatively of the Law (the Old Law) and “works” in the way that he did. Paul was not saying he was without Law of any kind (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21). In addition, Paul said we could deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). Paul also said sowing to the Spirit would result in reaping life everlasting, and he encourages us, believers, not to be tired (weary) in doing well (good works): for in due season we shall reap if we faint not (See: Galatians 6:8-9).

[Continued in next post]:

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

In Romans 2 (two chapters earlier), Paul said:

25 “For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.” (Romans 2:25-29).

In Romans 3, Paul said:

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?” (Romans 3:1).

Compare that with the problem at the Jerusalem council:

Acts 15:1

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

In Romans 4:9-12 it mentions “circumcision.” But let's start reading verse 6.

6 “Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.” (Romans 4:9-12).

Notice verses 9-10.

Verse 9 mentions “this blessedness.”
Verse 10 asks was “this blessedness” reckoned in circumcision or uncircumcision?
What is “this blessedness?”
Verse 8 says blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Verse 7 says blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Verse 6 basically says the blessedness of the man is God imputing righteousness without works.
So “this blessedness” is:

Lord, not imputing sin.
Iniquities are forgiven.
God imputing righteousness without works.

So taking this all into account, how was “this blessedness” reckoned?

In Circumcision (a work) or uncircumcision (not a work)?

Verse 10 basically says it was reckoned in uncircumcision.
Verses 11-12 just reinforce or restate this point in verse 10.

So when Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness according to Romans 4:3, we have to understand that this belief (that imputes righteousness) was before circumcision (with circumcision being a work). The point here is the order of how things were to be done. Abraham’s belief being accounted to him for righteousness was to happen BEFORE his circumcision (work) is compared to how we are to apply our faith, as well. We must first believe in God (whereby he forgives us, and He does not impute sin, and He imputes righteousness to us) before we do any kind of work. But what many fail to understand is that circumcision (a work) was an essential requirement for the people of Abraham (during the time he lived).

Genesis 17:14 says,

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.”

Now, while circumcision is not a requirement for New Covenant believers, it was a requirement for Abraham and his people and those under the 613 Laws of Moses. But the point here is that during the time circumcision was to be done, it was not an option. However, Paul brought up the point about how Abraham first believed in God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness before he was even circumcised (as a parallel to our faith today).

Believers must first believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior before doing any work. Paul brought this up because of the problem of “Circumcision Salvationism.” (See again Acts 15:1 and Galatians 5:2). Circumcision was a part of the 613 Laws of Moses. But Christians are not under all of these laws (although the Moral Laws of God have been repeated into the New Covenant, like, Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etcetera).

Paul is not referring to how a person will just believe in Jesus as their Savior their whole life and refuse to do any good works for God and or to live holy as a part of entering the Kingdom. That’s not the point Paul was making. In Romans 6: Paul says, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” Paul says, “God forbid” (See: Romans 6:1-2). Paul mentions that we are to have our fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life (Romans 6:22).

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

Works for Salvation Verses:

#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?” (James 2:21) (Note: This work by Abraham in offering up Isaac upon the altar in James 2:21 is referred to as “faith” in Hebrews 11. It says, “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” - Hebrews 11:17).

#4. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#5. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

#6. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

#7. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#8. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#9. “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46). “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-36).

#10. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19)

#11. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28) (An example of loving your neighbor is given to us in the Parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37).

#12. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#13. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire (Matthew 7:19).

Supplementary Passage (Context):

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

What sayings of Jesus are they not doing?

Two chapters earlier, Jesus says,

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works,

and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16).

(The Immediate context also refers to how those who bring forth evil fruit are the corrupt trees, i.e., inwardly they are ravening wolves or false prophets and yet those who bring forth good fruit are good trees):

”Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:15-20).

#14. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

[Continued in next post]:

Bible_Highlighter · Dec 22, 2023

#15. “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

#16. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (Note: Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11; Loving your brother is a good work).

#17. “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8).

#18. “And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: (Matthew 25:25-26). “And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30). “And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:20-21).

#19. “…I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. …” (Revelation 3:1-3). “Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,…” (Revelation 3:4).

#20. "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; " (Jude 1:12).

As we can see, these false believers mentioned in Jude are without fruit.

This is why we are to constantly affirm to others to maintain good works (Titus 3:8).

In fact, Titus 3:14 says,

"And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful."

So we are to affirm works to other believers CONSTANTLY.

The brethren are to learn to maintain good works so that they are not unfruitful.

That's why.

If one is unfruitful, then they are like the false believers whose fruit is withered, and they are without fruit twice dead, and the roots pluck them up, as Jude warns.

Please address at least 2-3 of these verses above.

Side Note:

Keep in mind that works is merely a part of our Sanctification. The Bible says God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). This is the secondary aspect of salvation. Believers are first initially saved by God’s grace through faith (a belief alone) by believing in Jesus as their Savior, and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

Folks do not realize that there is a timeline of our faith. There are different steps in the faith.

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