The Sign Of Jonah

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Spurgeoncy said:
There are two schools of though about Jesus' death.

One is that the Passover mentioned is an annual Passover, so that he was crucified on a Wednesday, and hence spent three days in the tomb.

The other is that he was crucified on a Friday.

Which is correct? In which year was Our Lord actually put to death?
Click to expand...


He arrived on a Sunday, (Palm Sunday), April 6, 32 AD. (i.e. Daniel 9:24)

John 12:1 tell us that Jesus is in Bethany 6 days before Passover (Nisan 14). This would make it Nisan 9 or Friday.

Travel was restricted from Friday at Sundown because it was then Saturday (the Sabbath, Nissan 10).

Therefore he arrived in Jerusalem somewhere between sundown on Saturday and Sundown on Sunday (Nisan 11, Palm Sunday, April 6, 32AD

Monday, Nisan 12 (sundown Sunday to sundown Monday) he was in Bethany according to Matt 26:2-6

Tuesday, Nisan 13 (Sundown Monday to Sundown Tuesday), another day at the office

Wednesday, Nisan 14, Passover (sundown Tuesday to sundown Wednesday), Last supper according to (Luke 22:15-20, John 13-17). According to (Mark 15:42-43), Burial preps were done before sundown thus He was crucified in the afternoon and placed in burial chamber just before sundown. (Leviticus 23:5 tells us the day of Passover is Nisan 14.)

Thursday, Nisan 15, (sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday), 1st day of Burial (feast of 'Unleaven' Bread) [night/day]

Friday, Nisan 16, (sundown Thursday to sundown Friday), 2nd day of Burial [night/day]

Saturday, Nisan 17, (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday), 3rd day of Burial [night/day], sometime after sundown Jesus rose from the grave fulfilling the prophesy of three days and night in the grave.

Sunday, Nisan 18, (sundown Saturday to sundown Sunday), the women found the grave empty in the morning.'Feast of Firstfruits' (Lev 23:10-11; 1 Cor 15:20-23)

ref. the date involved is a calculated value from Biblical prophecy. The use of the Roman Calendar is use for day of month
Using the above url, one can find the Hebrew calendar as well. Using the date above, produces Passover Nissan 14 on
Saturday (Hebrew Calendar)
Koinonia House Ministry
 
Last edited:
oldhermit said:
What you are missing is that the day of preparation and Passover were on Friday. This was the same day as the crucifixion and the burial. Simply read Luke's time line. The following day was not Friday, it was Saturday. You are still going to have to demonstrate from the text that there was a two day gap between the women's preparing of the spices and the day of resurrection. I need passages that can confirm this.



Yes, I agree that it was very early Sunday morning while it was still dark according to John 20:1.
Click to expand...

Let us try again.
Jesus was crucified on the prep day of Passover Lk 23v54 and the sabbath/high day drew on...close to sunset.
The women who had been with Jesus observed the burial v55.
They returned (home I presume) to prepare the ointments (after the burial).
But the day after the prep day and burial was the 1st day of unl bread a high day and holy day when they could not do any work/prepare ointments and they had to wait till the next day Lk 23v56.
So 2 days had lapsed since the burial,
1) the day of unl bread or high day
2) the day the women prepared ointments
so we come to the weekly sabbath day they rested according to the commandments...
THEN the following day (sunday) they went back to the tomb to anoint Jesus, but He had risen (past tense) He was no longer there.

Another thing that happened on the day AFTER Jesus was buried - the jewish high priests went to Pilate to ask for the securing of the tomb for 3 days Mat 27v62-66. Would that make sense if it had been the weekly sabbath ?
 
oldhermit said:
Then why is the next day following this Sabbath called the first day of the week?
Click to expand...

The word Sabbath a term that means rest with no other meaning was added in most paraphrases by giving it a time sensitive meaning, week.The word week is not found in the original autographs. They would use the word days. Seven to a week . Not seven to a rest . He rested on the seventh.

If we would replace the meaning of the word Sabbath in the first case it would read...

Mat 28:1 In the end of the week, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

No mention of a rest. Greek words can be helpful in understanding but it does not mean new meaning were not added to it.

It can only make sense by using the word it was meant to be used.rest (not a time sensitive word.)

Mat 28:1 In the end of the Sabbaths (the Saturdays, last day of the seven days) , as it began to dawn toward the new era of the Sunday Sabbaths, the first day of the 7 days , came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
 
Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.
John 18:28

The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
Numbers 9:12

But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
John 18:39

7 And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Lev 16:7-10

And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:14

And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Mark 15:42

Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
John 19:27

Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Matt 13:55

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
John 19:31

And he said, Lo, it is yet high day, neither is it time that the cattle should be gathered together: water ye the sheep, and go and feed them.
Gen 29:7

For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
John 19:36

They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.
Numbers 9:12

And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
John 19:38

And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.
Mark 15:25

41 Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. 42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
John 19:41-42

And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid.
Mark 15:47

And it came to pass, when Jacob saw Rachel the daughter of Laban his mother's brother, and the sheep of Laban his mother's brother, that Jacob went near, and rolled the stone from the well's mouth, and watered the flock of Laban his mother's brother.
Gen 29:10

There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Mark 15:40

And he looked, and behold a well in the field, and, lo, there were three flocks of sheep lying by it; for out of that well they watered the flocks: and a great stone was upon the well's mouth.Gen 29:2

1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Mark 16:1-

I guess if one was baptized into his death beyond Jordan, then they would have hath part in the first resurrection, since on the second death there is resurrection of the flesh.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 1 Cor 13:3

And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him. 7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
Mark 16:6-7
 
Last edited:
I think he uses two witness when speaking of the "heart of the earth" a three day work, the heart of the matter.

The first witness (the garden) is part is an integral part the second, the cross.

It began on Thursday during daylight and was performed on Friday as twenty four hour period. Light of day, to light day and not evening, darkness to darkness. Not according to the lunar calendar, sunset to sunset) but the calendar they were using, the solar, (sunrise to sunrise.)

What do we do with that portion if it saying the same thing as the cross? I think it is used just like Genesis one and two different ways to express the same thing as two witnesses.

The work is in respect to the heart of the earth (not tomb or grave) . The term heart of the earth denotes suffering. There can be no suffering if a person is dead.

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. Luk 22:42-46

As it is great drops of blood is not in represent to literal drops of blood . The word as denotes a parable is at hand. The sweat show he was working pouring out His Spirit not seen. The saint who came with Christ whom the father put to rest, shows Christ did all the work alone as the father strengthens him to finish it.

Remember when compared to Jonas ...he was alive representing the Holy Spirit that cannot die. Just like the son of man until he of his volition gave up the Spirit .No one took his life from him.
 
Adstar said:
Why? ... The 14th of the month could be any day of the week depending on what day of the week it fell... Do you think that the passover must always fall on a friday each year? Does Christmas always fall on the same day each and every year.. No.. Do you think that the first day of unleavened bread must always fall on a weekly Sabbath day??? Is that what your mind is thinking?
Click to expand...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yes, any of the sacrificial days could have fallen on any day of the week. It just so happened that in the year of Jesus' death, the 14th fell on a Friday. This was not by accident. This means that both the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and the weekly Sabbath fell on the 15[/FONT][SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], and the first day of the week then was the 16th. You have to remember that Jesus fulfilled all of the OT sacrifices in exacting precision. EVERY O.T. sacrifice served as a pattern for the reality. This is why they are called types. I think we can all agree that Jesus, as the Passover Lamb, was slain on the 14th of the month of Nissan according to the pattern of the Passover. We also know that he was placed in the tomb on the same day and spent the entire day of the 15th (The Sabbath of unleavened Bread) in the tomb. We also know that he was raised on the 16th of the month which was the same day as the offering of the first fruits. The contention that is debated is whether the 14th was on a Wed, Thur, or Fri. So, how do we determine on which day the 14th fell?

Now follow me on this. In Lev 23:15-17 we learn that the people were to [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"count [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]from the day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the sabbath[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif],[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] (This was the day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the Sabbath day of Unleavened Bread)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]seven complete sabbaths[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](i.e. seven weeks, 49 days)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]You shall [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]count [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]fifty days[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](rather than 49)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] to the day [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] the seventh sabbath[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](i.e. they were to count fifty days after the seventh Sabbath which adds one more day to make 50 days)[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; then you shall present a new grain offering to the LORD. You shall bring in from your dwelling places two loaves of bread for a wave offering, made of two-tenths of an ephah; they shall be of a fine flour, baked with leaven[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] as first fruits to the LORD[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]." [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Now, what happened exactly 50 days following the resurrection? This was of course the Day of Pentecost. Jesus rose on the first day of the week on the day of the offering of first fruits, the 16th of Nissan. Paul confirms that Jesus is the first fruit in 1Cor 15:20 [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]“But now is Christ [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]risen from the dead, and become the first fruits[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] of them that slept.” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] This was in keeping with the pattern of Lev 23, and Mark 16:9 confirms that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]after He had risen early on the first day of the week[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif],...” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Now, Exactly fifty days from that day we have the Day of Pentecost. [/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jesus was raised as the first fruit on the first day of the week, on the 16th of the month. He had to rise on the 16[/FONT][SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] in order to fulfill the pattern of the offering of first fruits. Since he rose on Sunday, the 14th cannot be any day but Friday. This follows precisely the pattern of the Passover and its subsequent offering of first fruits. From the burial to the resurrection was three consecutive days, Fri, Sat, and Sun, but it was not 72 hours. [/FONT]
 
Bladerunner said:

He arrived on a Sunday, (Palm Sunday), April 6, 32 AD. (i.e. Daniel 9:24)

John 12:1 tell us that Jesus is in Bethany 6 days before Passover (Nisan 14). This would make it Nisan 9 or Friday.

Travel was restricted from Friday at Sundown because it was then Saturday (the Sabbath, Nissan 10).

Therefore he arrived in Jerusalem somewhere between sundown on Saturday and Sundown on Sunday (Nisan 11, Palm Sunday, April 6, 32AD

Monday, Nisan 12 (sundown Sunday to sundown Monday) he was in Bethany according to Matt 26:2-6

Tuesday, Nisan 13 (Sundown Monday to Sundown Tuesday), another day at the office

Wednesday, Nisan 14, Passover (sundown Tuesday to sundown Wednesday), Last supper according to (Luke 22:15-20, John 13-17). According to (Mark 15:42-43), Burial preps were done before sundown thus He was crucified in the afternoon and placed in burial chamber just before sundown. (Leviticus 23:5 tells us the day of Passover is Nisan 14.)

Thursday, Nisan 15, (sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday), 1st day of Burial (feast of 'Unleaven' Bread) [night/day]

Friday, Nisan 16, (sundown Thursday to sundown Friday), 2nd day of Burial [night/day]

Saturday, Nisan 17, (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday), 3rd day of Burial [night/day], sometime after sundown Jesus rose from the grave fulfilling the prophesy of three days and night in the grave.

Sunday, Nisan 18, (sundown Saturday to sundown Sunday), the women found the grave empty in the morning.'Feast of Firstfruits' (Lev 23:10-11; 1 Cor 15:20-23)

ref. the date involved is a calculated value from Biblical prophecy. The use of the Roman Calendar is use for day of month
Using the above url, one can find the Hebrew calendar as well. Using the date above, produces Passover Nissan 14 on
Saturday (Hebrew Calendar)
Koinonia House Ministry
Click to expand...

What you are trying to prove is that Jesus spent a literal 72 hours in the tomb in order to satisfy your understands of "in the heart of the earth." You will never be able to get 72 hours in the tomb out of this scenario.
 
beta said:
Let us try again.
Jesus was crucified on the prep day of Passover Lk 23v54 and the sabbath/high day drew on...close to sunset.
The women who had been with Jesus observed the burial v55.
They returned (home I presume) to prepare the ointments (after the burial).
But the day after the prep day and burial was the 1st day of unl bread a high day and holy day when they could not do any work/prepare ointments and they had to wait till the next day Lk 23v56.
So 2 days had lapsed since the burial,
1) the day of unl bread or high day
2) the day the women prepared ointments
so we come to the weekly sabbath day they rested according to the commandments...
THEN the following day (sunday) they went back to the tomb to anoint Jesus, but He had risen (past tense) He was no longer there.

Another thing that happened on the day AFTER Jesus was buried - the jewish high priests went to Pilate to ask for the securing of the tomb for 3 days Mat 27v62-66. Would that make sense if it had been the weekly sabbath ?
Click to expand...

What proof can you offer from scripture to prove that there were two intervening days between the women's return from the tomb and the resurrection? You are trying to force this into this text and it simply is not there.
 
oldhermit said:
What you are trying to prove is that Jesus spent a literal 72 hours in the tomb in order to satisfy your understands of "in the heart of the earth." You will never be able to get 72 hours in the tomb out of this scenario.
Click to expand...

The Bible tells us He spent 3 nights and 3 days in the Grave...WHY do I want to disagree with God's word?????Please tell me.... (Mat 12:40)...I did use Grave instead of " in the heart of the earth." for 3 days and 3 nights. I will send out my apologies for the error although technically, his body was still in the grave.

From Bladerunner previous post:

"Thursday, Nisan 15, (sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday), 1st day of Burial (feast of 'Unleaven' Bread) [night/day] (1st Day)

Friday, Nisan 16, (sundown Thursday to sundown Friday), 2nd day of Burial [night/day] (2nd Day)

Saturday, Nisan 17, (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday), 3rd day of Burial [night/day], sometime after sundown Jesus rose from the grave fulfilling the prophesy of three days and night in the grave. " (3rd day)

Sundown Saturday to Sundown Sunday was the 4th day

 
Bladerunner said:
The Bible tells us He spent 3 nights and 3 days in the Grave...WHY do I want to disagree with God's word?????Please tell me.... (Mat 12:40)...I did use Grave instead of " in the heart of the earth." for 3 days and 3 nights. I will send out my apologies for the error although technically, his body was still in the grave.

From Bladerunner previous post:

"Thursday, Nisan 15, (sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday), 1st day of Burial (feast of 'Unleaven' Bread) [night/day] (1st Day)

Friday, Nisan 16, (sundown Thursday to sundown Friday), 2nd day of Burial [night/day] (2nd Day)

Saturday, Nisan 17, (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday), 3rd day of Burial [night/day], sometime after sundown Jesus rose from the grave fulfilling the prophesy of three days and night in the grave. " (3rd day)

Sundown Saturday to Sundown Sunday was the 4th day
Click to expand...

"In the heart of the earth" is not synonymous with grave or tomb, although on the surface, I think this is the picture that immediately comes to mind when we read these words but, it is not the definition that Jesus himself gives to this use of language. He defines his own use of terms that qualifies the three days and three nights and it does not mean a literal 72 hours in the tomb.

The reason I said you will never be able to get 72 hours out of this scenario is because Jesus was not placed in the tomb until probably around 5:00 pm allowing for the time it took for them to remove his body from the cross, take it home, wash the body, wrap it, and then place it in the tomb. In order to satisfy the 72 hour theory, this means he would had to have arisen on the Sabbath at about 5:00 pm. We know this is not when he was raised because Mark tells us he was raised on the first day of the week sometime between after sundown at the beginning of the day and dawn. There is no possible way to get 72 hours out of this scenario that will agree with line of the four gospels.
 
What you are trying to prove is that Jesus spent a literal 72 hours in the tomb in order to satisfy your understands of "in the heart of the earth." You will never be able to get 72 hours in the tomb out of this scenario.
Click to expand...

Where did you get the idea that it;"in the heart of the earth." has something to do to do with a tomb or a grave? The word heart there is in respect to the living.

The the heart of the earth represent the belly of the fish .As Jonah alive cried out; "I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me"

The same applies to the Son of man.

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Luk 22:42


Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1
 
garee said:
Where did you get the idea that it;"in the heart of the earth." has something to do to do with a tomb or a grave? The word heart there is in respect to the living.

The the heart of the earth represent the belly of the fish .As Jonah alive cried out; "I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me"

The same applies to the Son of man.

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Luk 22:42


Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1
Click to expand...

"In the heart of the earth" in NOT synonymous with tomb o grave. Jesus himself makes this very clear.
 
oldhermit said:
The Sabbath was not two days after Jesus' death. The Sabbath was the very next day after his death. John 19:31 confirms this. "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."
Click to expand...


Hi oldhermit,,,hope you are doing fine today... Your "John 19:31 confirms this. "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation" is correct

However, the Jews had more than one sabbath during this week. The 'Feast of Unleaven Bread' as was other feast. This feast is celebrated on Nisan 15, the day after passover. (Lev. 23:5-6). Matthew 28:1 tells us this.

Therefore, Thursday would have been considered a Sabbath as it follow Passover (Nisan 14). They did get him in the Grave before Sundown on Wednesday, shortly before the beginning of the Sabbath.

One other point here, Mat 12:40 tells that "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

No, there is no symbolism here, it is straight forward, 3 days and 3 nights. 72 hours.

Had Nisan 14 been earlier in the week, Nisan 15 could have been on any


would love to here your version on this! sir.....Have a great day
 
Bladerunner said:
Hi oldhermit,,,hope you are doing fine today... Your "John 19:31 confirms this. "Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation" is correct

However, the Jews had more than one sabbath during this week. The 'Feast of Unleaven Bread' as was other feast. This feast is celebrated on Nisan 15, the day after passover. (Lev. 23:5-6). Matthew 28:1 tells us this.

Therefore, Thursday would have been considered a Sabbath as it follow Passover (Nisan 14). They did get him in the Grave before Sundown on Wednesday, shortly before the beginning of the Sabbath.

One other point here, Mat 12:40 tells that "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

No, there is no symbolism here, it is straight forward, 3 days and 3 nights. 72 hours.

Had Nisan 14 been earlier in the week, Nisan 15 could have been on any


would love to here your version on this! sir.....Have a great day
Click to expand...


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Well, this presents two immediate problems. First, the time line of the Wednesday scenario cannot provide for 72 literal hours in the tomb if that is what you are looking for. The math simply does not work. Second, it will not satisfy the pattern of Lev 23. If you will notice in verse 11 of that chapter, the offering of first fruits was to be offered on the very next day after the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread. In other words, on the 16[/FONT][SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] of Nissan. This offering of first fruits was to coincide with the resurrection. We know this from 1Cor. 15:20. Since Jesus was raised on Sunday morning, this can only mean that the 14[/FONT][SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] fell on Friday, the Sabbath of the unleavened bread fell on Saturday the 15[/FONT][SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][/SUP][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and Jesus was resting in the tomb. The Sabbath of unleavened bread and the weekly Sabbath both fell on the same day, hence its designation as a high Sabbath. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Both of the problems prove unresolvable under the Wednesday theory. [/FONT]
 
oldhermit said:
"In the heart of the earth" is not synonymous with grave or tomb, although on the surface, I think this is the picture that immediately comes to mind when we read these words but, it is not the definition that Jesus himself gives to this use of language. He defines his own use of terms that qualifies the three days and three nights and it does not mean a literal 72 hours in the tomb.

The reason I said you will never be able to get 72 hours out of this scenario is because Jesus was not placed in the tomb until probably around 5:00 pm allowing for the time it took for them to remove his body from the cross, take it home, wash the body, wrap it, and then place it in the tomb. In order to satisfy the 72 hour theory, this means he would had to have arisen on the Sabbath at about 5:00 pm. We know this is not when he was raised because Mark tells us he was raised on the first day of the week sometime between after sundown at the beginning of the day and dawn. There is no possible way to get 72 hours out of this scenario that will agree with line of the four gospels.
Click to expand...

oldhermit...I do not think if I ever said 72 hours but I did say three days and three nights and that is what the Bible states. I agree with you that he arose from the grave sometime during sundown Saturday and sundown Sunday which was the first day of the week with Saturday being the 7th day and the Sabbath. What Hour I do not know.

It was not me that states that he was " in the heart of the earth." for 3 days and 3 nights but rather the Bible.

p.s. " in the heart of the earth." to me is Tartarus and Abraham's Bosom.
 
garee said:
Where did you get the idea that it;"in the heart of the earth." has something to do to do with a tomb or a grave? The word heart there is in respect to the living.

This what the Bible said not me.... I take it that Jesus was in Hell at this time. We are told that He was there and "in the heart of the earth" is a pretty accurate description of where Hell is located.

The the heart of the earth represent the belly of the fish .As Jonah alive cried out; "I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me"

Matthew 12:40 (KJV) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This where the scripture is talking about Jonas and here is where Matthew is talking about Jesus not Jonas[/B]

[/COLOR]

The same applies to the Son of man.

No sir, Why would it? The ';' separates it from the next part of the sentence

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.Luk 22:42


Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1
Click to expand...

There is nothing more to say about the other two..not really sure what you are intending here.
 
Bladerunner said:
oldhermit...I do not think if I ever said 72 hours but I did say three days and three nights and that is what the Bible states. I agree with you that he arose from the grave sometime during sundown Saturday and sundown Sunday which was the first day of the week with Saturday being the 7th day and the Sabbath. What Hour I do not know.

It was not me that states that he was " in the heart of the earth." for 3 days and 3 nights but rather the Bible.

p.s. " in the heart of the earth." to me is Tartarus and Abraham's Bosom.
Click to expand...

In the heart of the earth is clear....so is comparing it to being IN the BELLY of the "whale" no where is it indicated or explained by Jesus as being in the HANDS OF MEN....that does not bear up to the comparison of Jonah......and is a clear rejection of the verbiage itself....

This whole argument is MOOT....HE DIED, WAS BURIED and SPENT three days and three NIGHTS in the heart of the earth and rose the THIRD day before the women showed up early on the first day of the week....end of story......
 
God does not mince words and means exactly what he states. When he wants us to know he is in the hands of men he states it....when he wants us to know he spent the time in the CENTER of the earth he states it.....below is a clear indication and comparison of what scriptures look like.....Heart of the earth means exactly that.....end of story!

Berean Study Bible
For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Berean Literal Bible
For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

New American Standard Bible
for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

King James Bible
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

NOTICE the DIFFERENCE!

Berean Study Bible
Then He returned to the disciples and said, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Berean Literal Bible
Then He comes to the disciples and says to them, "Sleep and take your rest later on. Behold, the hour has drawn near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

New American Standard Bible
Then He came to the disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

King James Bible
Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back