The Sin of Pacifism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Calminian
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jason0047 said:
You are changing the topic because you can't actually defend or prove your case with Scripture concerning this topic.
Click to expand...

I'm not changing the subject, I was displaying to the casual reader that though you say "it was a spiritual sword" Jesus asked his disciples to buy, you also believe that Jesus turned water into grape juice. Also lets not pretend the jews ran out of grape juice at a wedding feast. I digress, we won't change the subject
 
JesusIsAll said:
But it becomes useless to cite the Bible after a point, if somebody starts allegorizing scripture that doesn't fit their errant view: in other words, make the Bible whatever meanings they wish to attach. There's no reasoning with somebody insisting on trying to fit square pegs into round holes, when the reasoning by the word of God is reduce to fuzzy human logic and personal prejudices. This could go on forever, as evidenced by many threads of repetitive, differing views which cannot all be right in scriptural light, yet no agreement ever reached.
Click to expand...
Yes, and perhaps Jesus meant turning the other 'spiritual' cheek.
 
JesusIsAll said:
But it becomes useless to cite the Bible after a point, if somebody starts allegorizing scripture that doesn't fit their errant view: in other words, make the Bible whatever meanings they wish to attach. There's no reasoning with somebody insisting on trying to fit square pegs into round holes, when the reasoning by the word of God is reduce to fuzzy human logic and personal prejudices. This could go on forever, as evidenced by many threads of repetitive, differing views which cannot all be right in scriptural light, yet no agreement ever reached.
Click to expand...

JIA I'll answer this one. Jason believes Jesus turned the water into grape juice not wine. He debated this for a long time. Hard to even show anything Biblical for or against someone that hard set on a belief. Shoot he even mentioned the grape juice thing in this forum.
 
Deadtosin said:
I'm not changing the subject, I was displaying to the casual reader that though you say "it was a spiritual sword" Jesus asked his disciples to buy, you also believe that Jesus turned water into grape juice. Also lets not pretend the jews ran out of grape juice at a wedding feast. I digress, we won't change the subject
Click to expand...

I usually get my spiritual swords at Spiritual Swords R Us. They cost a lot of scrip, but really hold their edge.
 
well...hmm...this seems to be a man's thread for the most part,
so forgive me for interrupting. :)

i s'pose it's human nature to defend oneself. it's easy to speculate about what i'd do in a given situation.
i think if i were being attacked it would be instinct to try to stop it. (fight back)
if it were only me, idk...but if it were one of my children or my little grandson...grr!

our son was involved in public violence just once. he and one of his sisters were in a pub having a sandwich
when a drunk patron physically, er, intruded on my daughter's person.
my son tried to talk to him, but he wasn't exactly in a reasonable mood.
one punch took care of it. i'm glad he was there, but i feel other men would have risen up to defend that assault.
and i thank God for it!

our daughter is 5'5" and not quite 100 pounds...if we can't defend the defenseless, who are we?
should my son have just let that guy manhandle his sister??

it's one thing to decide to turn the other cheek for oneself, and quite another to allow evil
to just happen to those who are too weak to defend themselves.
 
elf3 said:
JIA I'll answer this one. Jason believes Jesus turned the water into grape juice not wine. He debated this for a long time. Hard to even show anything Biblical for or against someone that hard set on a belief. Shoot he even mentioned the grape juice thing in this forum.
Click to expand...

Well, your evidence must not have been as compelling as, "Because I say so."
 
crossnote said:
You were half credible up to this point. Spiriitual sword? Spiritual script? Spiritual clothing....ohkayyy.
Anyways Calminian gave you a great example with Abraham our father of the faith who mustered up his army to battle in order to rescuue Lot his nephew.
Mind answering that?
Click to expand...

You don't think therer is a spirit world that we cannot see where angels and demons are not visible to our sight? Paul says,

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )" (2 Corinthians 10:3-4). Ephesians 6:12 essentially is saying the same thing. We wrestle against flesh and blood (Which is what most here believe we must do), but we wrestle against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places (.i.e. demons). In other words we are fighting a spiritual battle and you need spiritual armor. Whether this armor is visible in the spirit world or whether this armor is a metaphorical expression of how we wage war spiritually is not entirely clear in Scripture. What is important is that you have this armor on if you do fight spiritually.

As for Abraham going to war to save Lot, we have to understand that this was the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The Old has vanished away and the New Testament officially began (With no more Old Testament) when Jesus died upon the cross. For the Temple veil has been torn.
 
Last edited:
Yes we are in a spiritual warfare where the forces of evil are trying to rip us believers away from God. But that's spiritual. We are talking about physical and if you cannot tell the difference then..I am sorry.
 
If pacifism is a sin then Jesus Christ is a sinner. Christians justifying war is the reason this world is so messed up. Warring against others and one another and this is the will of God? That is impossible.
 
elf3 said:
Yes we are in a spiritual warfare where the forces of evil are trying to rip us believers away from God. But that's spiritual. We are talking about physical and if you cannot tell the difference then..I am sorry.
Click to expand...

Well, you don't believe Paul then. He said the weapons of our warefare are not carnal. Yet you somehow believe that they are.

Also, I went back and read a little of the thread. Not sure what point you think I am ignoring. I strive to always make my points with Scripture.

Was it about what would I do if a loved one was attacked in front of me?

I first would first try to rebuke them in the name of Jesus and call out to God for help. I would also try to stop them with the Word of God, too. If the attacker persisted I would further rebuke them in the name of Jesus and strive to pull the attacker away without harming them. If I were to die then let the glory be to God.
 
Vernon said:
If pacifism is a sin then Jesus Christ is a sinner. Christians justifying war is the reason this world is so messed up. Warring against others and one another and this is the will of God? That is impossible.
Click to expand...

Is God perfect? of course God had His people go to war.
 
Jason0047 said:
I first would first try to rebuke them in the name of Jesus and call out to God for help. I would also try to stop them with the Word of God, too. If the attacker persisted I would further rebuke them in the name of Jesus and strive to pull the attacker away without harming them. If I were to die then let the glory be to God.
Click to expand...

what if your death immediately equated to the rape and murder of of the meek?
 
Jason0047 said:
Well, you don't believe Paul then. He said the weapons of our warefare are not carnal. Yet you somehow believe that they are.

Also, I went back and read a little of the thread. Not sure what point you think I am ignoring. I strive to always make my points with Scripture.

Was it about what would I do if a loved one was attacked in front of me?

I first would first try to rebuke them in the name of Jesus and call out to God for help. I would also try to stop them with the Word of God, too. If the attacker persisted I would further rebuke them in the name of Jesus and strive to pull the attacker away without harming them. If I were to die then let the glory be to God.
Click to expand...



Now, do not misunderstand me, while I may be a pacifist now, I will not be one when I follow Christ at His second coming. In other words, if I seen in the New Testament clear examples of Jesus and or the apostles fighting physically and God approved of their actions then I would not be a pacifist. I am only a pacifist now because that is what the New Testament teaches.
 
Jason0047 said:
As for Abraham going to war to save Lot, we have to understand that this was the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. The Old has vanished away and the New Testament officially began (With no more Old Testament) when Jesus died upon the cross. For the Temple veil has been torn.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Abraham's walk of faith was not of the Mosaic Law but should also be our walk of faith as well.
He rescued his nephew and was not rebuked for it.

And if you are of Christ, then you are a seed of Abraham, even heirs according to promise.
(Gal 3:29)

and a father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision. For the promise was not through Law to Abraham, or to his seed, for him to be the heir of the world, but through a righteousness of faith.
(Rom 4:12-13)

So that those of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:9)

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:14)
 
Vernon said:
If pacifism is a sin then Jesus Christ is a sinner. Christians justifying war is the reason this world is so messed up. Warring against others and one another and this is the will of God? That is impossible.
Click to expand...

Did you read the whole forum? If you saw someone with a gun or any other weapon walking around killing people would you just sit back and watch? Or would you do anything in your power to stop then even if it meant to kill them? Imagine if it was your family being attacked. Would you not defend them? That's what we are talking about.
 
crossnote said:
Sorry, Abraham's walk of faith was not of the Mosaic Law but should also be our walk of faith as well.
He rescued his nephew and was not rebuked for it.

And if you are of Christ, then you are a seed of Abraham, even heirs according to promise.
(Gal 3:29)

and a father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but also to those walking in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham during uncircumcision. For the promise was not through Law to Abraham, or to his seed, for him to be the heir of the world, but through a righteousness of faith.
(Rom 4:12-13)

So that those of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:9)

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:14)
Click to expand...

While salvation has always been in God's grace by faith, your Bible is divided into two sections for a reason. Read Hebrews 9. It mentions how there are are only two covenants or two testaments (i.e. the Old Testament and the New Testament). Read the articles at Grace Community International. They helped me to understand this topic. Check them out here:

The Old Covenant and the Law of Moses | Grace Communion International

Also being joint heirs of Abraham means that we are all one in Christ. It doesn't mean we are under any part of the Old Covenant (Whether it was before the written Law or when the Law of Moses was in effect).
 
elf3 said:
Did you read the whole forum? If you saw someone with a gun or any other weapon walking around killing people would you just sit back and watch? Or would you do anything in your power to stop then even if it meant to kill them? Imagine if it was your family being attacked. Would you not defend them? That's what we are talking about.
Click to expand...

Job's wife looked at the outward appearance of things too. She seen bad things happening to Job and her family and she desired Job to curse God. She was not looking at the big picture that God had for Job's life in his time of testing.
 
For the natural man walks by sight but the spiritual man walks by faith or in those things that are unseen. For without faith, it is impossible to please Him. For even in certain battles in the Old Testament, we had seen it was actually God who was giving His people the victory. A sword? A gun? Ha. Such puny weapons compared to the protection of the Almighty! Nothing happens by random chance in this life. God ks testing you to have faith in Bim and not the arm of your flesh or the carnal wepons of this world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back