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I agree.
Yep. I agree.
Yes, that is my point exactly; Here is a really good animated short video that I feel speaks to the topic at hand:
[video=youtube;j3lwsOPEpMw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3lwsOPEpMw[/video]
I believe it is relevant because it speaks about how are love for Jesus Christ goes beyond how this world would want us to think, act, and behave. That we would be willing to lay down our life for another or die for our faith so as to glorify Jesus Christ. Whether we lay down our life so as to bring others to Christ in our life and or our death. God can protect us for His glory and God can choose to have us be persecuted for our faith. That's what everyone here is not getting. They think. Hey, I gotta protect myself. But God calls us to suffer for the sake of the cross many times in different ways. Sometimes we may live and other times we may die. For even Paul was thought to be dead from having been stoned. But he got up and continued on. The young man who fell out the window was brought back from the dead by Paul. So what is death to God? It is nothing. For God (Christ) conquered the grave. He is risen. He forever lives to make intercession for us (Here in this life and in the one to come).
Jesus did not give us a kill order so as to defend ourselves or another in the New Testament.
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elf3
Guest
Cyndi Lauper sings it..lol..
My wife just told me Phil Collins did a remake.
Not dodging. I can only answer one person at a time. I am not God to answer all people at once. I already explained it before. But I will help to put it in a perspective to help you understand.
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elf3
Guest
Jason how can you say lethal force shouldn't be used when you would call the police just in case it was needed?
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elf3
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kennethcadwell
Guest
I know this was directed toward Jason but I wanted to answer.
As you read in the bible the Lord our God is not against discipline ( punishment ), but with that in mind one can still go over board and misuse of force applied.
Yes a armed policeman is there to help, but they to can misuse the authority given to them.
Look at the example in Ferguson, Missouri. A police offer shooting at an unarmed assailant who is running away and then even shoots and kills him even though most eye witnesses say he had his hands up and head down.
If this is the truth that comes out in the trial, then by no means did the police officer need to kill Brown.
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elf3
Guest
Well what if it's a Christian police officer who shows up and actually has to kill the person? Does God change the rules because he is a police officer?
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elf3
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kennethcadwell
Guest
The Lord our God's way applies to all Christians and unbelievers as well.
For unbelievers who chose not to follow Gods way, spiritual death will come to them.
For all who call themselves Christians have to follow Gods way as well, if they do not then judgment and spiritual death awaits them to.
It does not matter as a Christian if you are just a civilian, police officer, president, mayor.....those titles do not matter, the walk with Christ is still the same.
You must avoid taking a life if you can, that should only be done as a last resort.
Where the lower jaw meets the skull on both sides are a set of nerves. When the jaw is struck it jars and or severs the nerves causing immediate unconsciousness, why do you call that a deadly viper? A punch like that just puts them to sleep.
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elf3
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Jason, is God the same forever? yes or no? You can only make your case by disregarding God's Word
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Yeah I know, but I was answering before I saw that since it was not in the same post.
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
you just keep on disregarding the whole of the old testament.. According to you Jesus changed.
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elf3
Guest
To be totally honest ken. It's hard for me to take you serious since you believe those Mary and Thomas gospel things are God breathed. Your only reason for them not being added is because Mary isn't full and Thomas was translated wrong. Do you not think that if they were to be added, God would have made it so because of His Sovereignty? There is a reason God didn't have man add them....Because they aren't His Word. Did you ever think of that?
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Not all of the OT applies any more.
There is no more sacrifices needed, the curses ( punishments ) that came with the law, and Jesus made changes ( adaptations ) to the moral aspects of the law. Example being that hatred being equal to murder, looking at another with lust in your heart is already adultery ( not just the physical act ).
The old testament says if man sheds mans blood by man his blood shall be shed, and eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.
Jesus says in the NT about eye for an eye, NO, to turn the other cheek and not resist an evil person.
Then He also goes further to say that we are to forgive others their trespasses ( sins ), or He will not forgive ours.
There are things from the OT that do very much apply, but that is mainly just the moral values it taught they we are to walk in. Not that we are to obey all the mosaic laws. Paul makes this clear in his teachings.
There are a couple of points I want to make on the Biblical Christian pacificist who calls the Police:
#1. The Police are not hitmen. I am not calling them up so that can kill for me. They can resolve situations peacefully and have done so in the past and still do today. In fact, that is why we have prisons with criminals in them.
#2. The Police are actually against public violence; They exist to bring order and peace.
#3. The Police (who are primarily unbelievers who are not saved) are God's ministers of justice.
#4. I can pray to Jesus for angels to protect me. If the angels are sanctioned by God to use lethal force and take a person's life so as to protect me, it does not mean I am doing the killing or that I am asking them to kill for me. That is God's call. I am placing my faith in God's order of justice because it was God's choice to allow His justice to be ministered in such a way that leaves me untouched with having to take justice into my own hands.
#5. Besides self defense, you can't take justice into your own hands (Which is at the heart of self defense). The Law does not allow people to be vigilantes. For if a person were to take the Law into their own hands, they would be an outlaw.
#6. God is Sovereign (And in control) and He is the giver and taker of life. For example: the 144,000 are sealed and protected and will not be harmed during the End Times. In other words, if God has it set for His purpose and plan that somebody should live, there is no way you can stop God by trying to take their life. The same truth holds just as equally true if you try and save a person. If it is somebody's appointed time to die by God, there is nothing you can really do to thwart God's will in that either. Now, I am not saying for you to do nothiing. We should take action; but in a non-violent way to protect people.
#7. Romans 12 talks about how we are not to take revenge which is at the heart of turning the other cheek. Romans 13 speaks about leaving the matters of justice in the hands of God's ministers of justice (who are of the world). I will address this point more in my next post.
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elf3
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And to jason I have no qualms about saying this...you are a self righteous hypocrite. First you would call someone else to use lethal force if needed and second a fellow Christian apologizes publicly to you and you won't even acknowledge it.
You talk love and preaching Jesus but you sure don't show Jesus.
You say you love you neighbor (in a round about way) but you won't forgive a fellow Christian.
Yeah I said it...go drink your grape juice and kill Goliath.
You talk love and preaching Jesus but you sure don't show Jesus.
You say you love you neighbor (in a round about way) but you won't forgive a fellow Christian.
Yeah I said it...go drink your grape juice and kill Goliath.