The Temporal Law

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Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#41
In Jeremiah it speaks of a new covenant, and it was absolutely not 400 years before Sinai.

If we were perfect we would need no law, but we are not perfect. We are not slave, we belong to Christ, we are not slaves. We accept Christ within, and by our actions unbelievers should be able to see Christ when they see us. If we refuse to be guided by the law, we cannot have Christ within.
It would be new to the Jews, as it was not given to them initially.

The sons of God are not guided by the law.

“All who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.”
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#42
In Jeremiah it speaks of a new covenant, and it was absolutely not 400 years before Sinai.

If we were perfect we would need no law, but we are not perfect. We are not slave, we belong to Christ, we are not slaves. We accept Christ within, and by our actions unbelievers should be able to see Christ when they see us. If we refuse to be guided by the law, we cannot have Christ within.
the covenant made at Sinai was 430 years after the promise to Abraham for all nations

Abram received a promise for his descendants to inherit the land of Israel , but he also made a promise to Abraham that all nations of the world would be blessed through his seed of promise .

the promise for all nations came 430 years before Moses received the law . The new covenant is the one Christ brought forth and is not according to Moses law .

the promise of Christ and the gospel came 430 years before the law was given because of sin , remember Abraham was a man of faith and obeyed God he wasn’t a sinner because there was no law when he walked the earth , Abraham walked after and obeyed the lords word by faith without law.

there was no law for the first generations until Moses came in those days there was God appearing to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Like this

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭17:1-2, 4-7‬ ‭

note that Abram received a promise for one nation with 12 princes , but then his name was changed to Abraham father of many nations . The law corresponds to Israel the one nation with 12 tribes , the gospel is what was sent into all nations and and creates Abraham’s children the law can’t do that

that being said the commandments are always valid and good to follow , but no one should look at them and believe it’s thier law because it isn’t it’s foreshadowing of Christ and the gospel meant for all nations just as Israel in Egypt was a foreshadow of Gods people in the world
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#43
Did Jesus preach the commandments ?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:37-40‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Did paul preach the keeping of the commandments ?

“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:8-10‬ ‭

Keeping them through the gospel of course but can that save us ? Doing no harm to each other ?

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬ ‭

“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”

‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

no ones going to be measured by the don’t do’s of Moses law but we are going to stand there before Christ and be of two groups those who loves others in his name and those who didn’t

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:34-36, 40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we believe in Jesus and love others in his name , we can rest for our la it’s induced by the law of not to dos and condemnations for and past transgressions being brought upon we have remission of sins but if we refuse his commandment of loving others in truth there’s another group who were waiting for him

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law can be a debate forever but what’s going to save souls is when we begin to lay our own selfishness down and start giving of our selves to others in christs name that is far greater than any sin pointed out by the law

“And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

charity being Love in action reaching forth to others

“Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law creates judgemental selfish people the gospel creates humble selfless and giving people , those become fruitful and pleasing to God
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#44
the law creates judgemental selfish people the gospel creates humble selfless and giving people , those become fruitful and pleasing to God
We are not righteous law abiding people in ourselves, we become that when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is through Christ. But when we live for Chris and not ourselves we use the law and the holy spirit to guide us.

The true law of the Lord is called the spirit of the law and it does not produce judgmental selfish people, it is those who do not listen to Christ who is the spirit of the law. All law is based on love not on being judgmental or selfish.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,996
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#45
We are not righteous law abiding people in ourselves, we become that when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is through Christ. But when we live for Chris and not ourselves we use the law and the holy spirit to guide us.

The true law of the Lord is called the spirit of the law and it does not produce judgmental selfish people, it is those who do not listen to Christ who is the spirit of the law. All law is based on love not on being judgmental or selfish.
“ We are not righteous law abiding people in ourselves, we become that when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. It is through Christ. But when we live for Chris and not ourselves we use the law and the holy spirit to guide us. “

I agree with everything you are saying but for being guided by the law. We need to be guided by the gospel that is “the law “of God.

the idea is this part

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-18‬ ‭

if we are led by Christs word

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45, 63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the effect of following the spirit of Christ found and imparted into our heart and mind through hearing the gospel and believing is a transformation of who we are at the core , those things we’ve always continued in a struggle against don’t have to be rooted in us now the gospel can remove sin at its root in our hearts so we aren’t going to seek after sinful things we won’t have any notice of desire if we’re able to come into the doctrine of Christ and be changed at the core the concept is a renewing of the core of the believer making a new man out of the old through renewing the spirit in our minds and hearts

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the mind isn’t renewed by the old law , it is like it is because it’s for the old corrupt man. The mind is renewed by the New Testament doctrine made of faith with the promise to quicken and change and save us to induce and create the fruits both of repentance and righteousness .

this is what transforms us from old to new and why we need to accept his word in the gospel

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a new understanding is taken in by belief and that changes our minds and hearts making us new and setting us free from this situation

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Ultimately there is nothing Moses can teach us that Christ hasn’t addressed in the gospel so we don’t need to go back to a law never meant for salvation we have a better word , a better promised land , a better hope and way opened up by a better law and priesthood given by a better and more glorious name , so much better that we should be called the children of the living God who follow the word of certain life that holds no condemnation

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and we have been made free from the law declaring sin and death


“Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭31:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now we have something greater and better and effective to make us right to give us hope and strength and build faith that we walk in spirit and truth and not the letter of sin and death for those lacking remission of sins , repentance and the Holy Spirit

I think however I understand and agree the law is not useless and is good for study and realizing what is right and wrong but much more is the witness that it cries out that we should wait for the lord and trust in him when he is revealed to us in the light of Christ Jesus

I love the ot law from genesis throughout all five books , I adore and love the prophets from Moses to
Malichi , and the epistles offer such astounding revelation but the gospel of the kingdom is our home with the lord and our path through the world unto the heavenly home awaiting us

The law is a powerful witness of Christ and also of the freedom and life he gives to those who dare to step forth into his kingdom by faith it’s why Paul preached what he preached , Peter preached what he preached thoer revelation was of the law and prophets witness of Christ and the kingdom

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23‬ ‭

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22‬ ‭

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18, 21, 24‬ ‭
useful and adorable is Moses writings but they are meant for this purpose to bring us to Christ and his words

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40, 46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
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Pacific NW USA
#46
Ok, I see. You're equating the law with the covenant. But these aren't one and the same but are related to each other.
The Law of God can be used as the generic Law of God or as the Law of Moses, which is a conditional covenant which, if broken, is terminated. A terminated contract can and was restored at one time. But it is not to be restored in the NT era.

- The law is "the commandments, statutes, judgments."

- The old covenant was "if you will obey My law I will make you a kingdom of priests".

- The new covenant is "I will put My law (those commandments, statues, judgments) in your heart, and forgive your sins".
All this was saying that a new covenant would come which would succeed, whereas the previous covenant would fail. Both covenants are "in your heart." But the new covenant is able to establish "in the heart" permanently, since Christ's sacrifice has provided atonement for sin.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
#47
Randy and Aaron , you should consider that Gods plan wasn’t to save us through the old covenant it had a purpose it’s here

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


before any man could ever need remission of sins , they first had to be given a law that imputes sin to their conscience , otherwise a savior who does for our sins is meaningless

it’s not one failed plan and then a successful plan it was the world fell and God owed man his fault through law , and also showed the result of sin is death “ the sinner must surely be put to death “ that’s why Jesus died because of the conclusion of the law

it was the first half of Gods plan the law was meant to impute n even upon abrams children to make them as guilty as the gentile nations so all the world would have to do this

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


so this was true from the beginning but hadn’t been revealed until the world had been made guilty

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


God had this all planned from before the beginning , the law was meant not to save but to bring us to Christ and his salvation until a person concludes they too are guilty of sin they can never repent or need salvation if you look at longer sections it’s all explained

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:23-27,

It’s a plan like building first a foundation and then later the house is built , but you don’t live in the foundation rather in the house built by the lord
I agree with you, insofar as I understand you.
 

Katarienr

New member
Sep 20, 2021
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#48
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TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Australia
#49
Christ is the source of every right impulse. He is the only one that can implant in the heart enmity against sin. Every desire for truth and purity, every conviction of our own sinfulness, is an evidence that His Spirit is moving upon our hearts.
Repentance includes sorrow for sin and a turning away from it. We shall not renounce sin unless we see its sinfulness; until we turn away from it in heart, there will be no real change in the life.
A changed life is more then words and thoughts, It is revealed in the actions and works.