The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[BartholomewB]

Let’s ask it this way. Why would James say that Moses is read in every city on Sabbath is the reason for just saying to the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, things strangled, idols and fornication?

Are they all that matter or is there more?

@Qt, I regret to inform you that I’m running out of patience with your refusal to give a straight answer to a simple question. Do you really have an interest in this discussion? If so, you’re taking great pains to disguise it.

Let’s start from the other end. The Apostolic Council, also known as the Council of Jerusalem, took place in or around the year 48, that is to say, fifteen years or more after the Crucifixion. What new development had been taking place in the synagogues during those years, both in Judea and in the diaspora? Answer: a new sect had arisen within Judaism, which first acquired a name of its own in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Some synagogues were more receptive to the new sect than others. In addition to Antioch we know the names of nine cities, ranging from Damascus in the east to Corinth in the west, where Paul was invited, or at least allowed, to preach in a local synagogue.

Are you with me so far?

 

[frederickdoc]

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
— Matthew 21:43 (KJV)

 

[frederickdoc]

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
— Matthew 21:43 (KJV)

And it shall come to pass in that day, that his burden shall be taken away from off thy shoulder, and his yoke from off thy neck, and the yoke shall be destroyed because of the anointing.

 

[Gideon300]

Are you a sinner? Then the law is for you if used lawfully.

1Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Tim 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

I don't know about you, but the law did it's work for me over 50 years ago. It brought me to Christ. Now the law is out of a job as far as my life is concerned.

I do not claim anything for myself. Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my Way and Jesus is my Truth. I died and my life is hidden in Him with God. I have a righteousness that exceeds anything that I can achieve by myself, Christ is my righteousness. So the Law is no longer applicable to me.​

 

[TMS]

I don't know about you, but the law did it's work for me over 50 years ago. It brought me to Christ. Now the law is out of a job as far as my life is concerned.

I do not claim anything for myself. Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my Way and Jesus is my Truth. I died and my life is hidden in Him with God. I have a righteousness that exceeds anything that I can achieve by myself, Christ is my righteousness. So the Law is no longer applicable to me.​

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Can you allow Christ to live His obedient life in you.

 

[TMS]

I don't know about you, but the law did it's work for me over 50 years ago. It brought me to Christ. Now the law is out of a job as far as my life is concerned.

I do not claim anything for myself. Jesus is my Life, Jesus is my Way and Jesus is my Truth. I died and my life is hidden in Him with God. I have a righteousness that exceeds anything that I can achieve by myself, Christ is my righteousness. So the Law is no longer applicable to me.​

Your missing what it means to be renewed.. imputed righteousness is great.. but you will not see the imparted side.
People often ignore the reality of transforming grace because they are blinded by self-sufficiency, a preference for spiritual darkness, or a preoccupation with the traditions and theories of men. The process of receiving this grace requires a deep distrust of self and a willingness to be corrected, which many find difficult to accept.

Transforming grace is not a passive sentiment; it is a living power that works through the Spirit of God to change the character.
It is a gift of God that provides all the power, penitence, and inclination necessary for salvation.
.

 

[TMS]

Christ is my righteousness. So the Law is no longer applicable to me

So you don't feel the Holy Spirit telling you not to Lie. Your conscience saying don't covet, or don't steal.

Mine is talking to me each day. The Holy Spirit is talking to me and He often uses the commandments.

 

[Gideon300]

So you don't feel the Holy Spirit telling you not to Lie. Your conscience saying don't covet, or don't steal.

Mine is talking to me each day. The Holy Spirit is talking to me and He often uses the commandments.

You do realised that you've just contradicted yourself. Do you not see that lying has always been sin and you don't need a commandment to tell you that? Same with stealing or any other sin.​

 

[Gideon300]

Your missing what it means to be renewed.. imputed righteousness is great.. but you will not see the imparted side.
People often ignore the reality of transforming grace because they are blinded by self-sufficiency, a preference for spiritual darkness, or a preoccupation with the traditions and theories of men. The process of receiving this grace requires a deep distrust of self and a willingness to be corrected, which many find difficult to accept.

Transforming grace is not a passive sentiment; it is a living power that works through the Spirit of God to change the character.
It is a gift of God that provides all the power, penitence, and inclination necessary for salvation.
.

The law does nothing to change anyone. All it does is condemn and kill. It is extremely effective in that. Tell me why God would put believers back under the Law that killed us in the first place?

 

[TMS]

The law does nothing to change anyone. All it does is condemn and kill. It is extremely effective in that. Tell me why God would put believers back under the Law that killed us in the first place?

So the solution is lawlessness
The way to solve the problem is to remove the law. ???? No

No law = no sin.

If God fixed the sin problem by removing the law, it did nothing to fix the underlying issue.

God paid the price but not so that we can freely continue to sin. That is solution the devil wants.

 

[TMS]

You do realised that you've just contradicted yourself. Do you not see that lying has always been sin and you don't need a commandment to tell you that? Same with stealing or any other sin.​

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Exo 16:27-28
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. 28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

All 10 are God's commandments and laws. He spoke them Himself.

They were always there but now God has given them as 10 commandments. You can allow the Spirit to walk in obedience to them or you can follow the flesh.

Walk in the Spirit or walk in the flesh.

It's your choice.

 

[Qt]

I don't know about you, but the law did it's work for me over 50 years ago. It brought me to Christ. Now the law is out of a job as far as my life is concerned.

Cool! So you do not sin. That is awesome!
For the Law is for the sinner if it is used lawfully! For by it is the knowledge of sin. For we would not know sin but by the Law.

 

[Qt]

The law does nothing to change anyone. All it does is condemn and kill. It is extremely effective in that. Tell me why God would put believers back under the Law that killed us in the first place?

He put the Law, the Word through Christ Jesus in us that the righteousness of the Law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. If we walk after the flesh you shall die. But if we through the Spirit of the Life in Christ Jesus mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live.

 

[Qt]

@Qt, I regret to inform you that I’m running out of patience with your refusal to give a straight answer to a simple question. Do you really have an interest in this discussion? If so, you’re taking great pains to disguise it.

Let’s start from the other end. The Apostolic Council, also known as the Council of Jerusalem, took place in or around the year 48, that is to say, fifteen years or more after the Crucifixion. What new development had been taking place in the synagogues during those years, both in Judea and in the diaspora? Answer: a new sect had arisen within Judaism, which first acquired a name of its own in Antioch (Acts 11:26). Some synagogues were more receptive to the new sect than others. In addition to Antioch we know the names of nine cities, ranging from Damascus in the east to Corinth in the west, where Paul was invited, or at least allowed, to preach in a local synagogue.

Are you with me so far?

You were asked. "Why would James say that Moses is read in every city on Sabbath is the reason for just saying to the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, things strangled, idols and fornication?"

Are they all that matter or is there more?

Shall we kill? Lay with Animals? Marry our brothers and sisters? Steal?

They are not of the List of things the Gentiles were told to abstain from.

So according to your Theology if the Gentiles abstain from the four all else is open game.

And please do not bring the rest of the New Testament into it. These letters were not so readily accessed if at all. However the Book of the Law was. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[BartholomewB]

You were asked. "Why would James say that Moses is read in every city on Sabbath is the reason for just saying to the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, things strangled, idols and fornication?"

Are they all that matter or is there more?

Shall we kill? Lay with Animals? Marry our brothers and sisters? Steal?

They are not of the List of things the Gentiles were told to abstain from.

So according to your Theology if the Gentiles abstain from the four all else is open game.

And please do not bring the rest of the New Testament into it. These letters were not so readily accessed if at all. However the Book of the Law was. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

In my post #7133, addressed to you, I said:

Let’s see if I have now grasped the point you’re trying to make. “Because there are synagogues in every ciry, we need to send a letter to all of them communicating our decision.” Is that it?

That suggestion of mine at least makes some sense. All things considered, I think I'll stick with it.

 

[Qt]

In my post #7133, addressed to you, I said:

Let’s see if I have now grasped the point you’re trying to make. “Because there are synagogues in every ciry, we need to send a letter to all of them communicating our decision.” Is that it?

That suggestion of mine at least makes some sense. All things considered, I think I'll stick with it.

No, You were asked. "Why would James say that Moses is read in every city on Sabbath is the reason for just saying to the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, things strangled, idols and fornication?"

Are they all that matter or is there more?

Shall we kill? Lay with Animals? Marry our brothers and sisters? Steal?

They are not of the List of things the Gentiles were told to abstain from.

So according to your Theology if the Gentiles abstain from the four all else is open game.

And please do not bring the rest of the New Testament into it. These letters were not so readily accessed if at all. However the Book of the Law was. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

 

[BartholomewB]

No, You were asked. "Why would James say that Moses is read in every city on Sabbath is the reason for just saying to the Gentiles that they should abstain from blood, things strangled, idols and fornication?"

Are they all that matter or is there more?

Shall we kill? Lay with Animals? Marry our brothers and sisters? Steal?

They are not of the List of things the Gentiles were told to abstain from.

So according to your Theology if the Gentiles abstain from the four all else is open game.

And please do not bring the rest of the New Testament into it. These letters were not so readily accessed if at all. However the Book of the Law was. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

No, not exactly. The point we were trying to settle was the function of the conjunction “for” (gar) in v. 21, apparently indicating a connection of some kind with the preceding verse.

You need to bear in mind that the issue being addressed at the Jerusalem meeting was not a theological question such as “What commandments does a Gentile need to observe in order to be saved?” but the simple practical question, “What rules does a Gentile need to observe in order for a synagogue to allow him to continue worshiping there?”

You ask about bestiality and incest. Both, I think, are duly covered by the term porneia, usually translated as either “fornication” or “sexual immorality.”

Your mention of stealing raises the question, How would a synagogue enforce a rule against that? If, for instance, a Gentile worshiper had shortchanged a client and the client himself never noticed, how would the synagogue elders find him out?

Getting back to the “for” question, do you have anything else to suggest?

 

[Rob7]

So I’m a Pharisee or hypocrite because I call out Ellen White as a false prophet? Ok. Her writings aren’t authoritative and they contradict scripture in many ways.

Yup ! You sure do act and talk like a Pharisee ...

Sister White harmonized with Scripture 100%, and her counsels promote obedience to God unto salvation, unlike your religion of disobedience to God and His Moral Law, which only leads to DEATH... She contradicts "Your understanding" of scripture !! which is the same understanding promoted by the antiChrist spirit in the world, mostly by it's "apostate protestant" corrupted "dispensationalist" religion, developed and promoted by John Nelson Darby, in the mid - 1800s

Jesus called out the Pharisees he was talking to, with their "works" based religion, rather than an actual Heart Transformed to LOVE, which is the Born Again, "converted" to the nature of Christ, ... into the likeness of the "obedient" Jesus and His Righteousness, unto Salvation.
Just sayin'

††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ~~ Blessed Sabbath Folks !! ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††
​

 

[TMS]

The law does nothing to change anyone. All it does is condemn and kill. It is extremely effective in that. Tell me why God would put believers back under the Law that killed us in the first place?

Tell me why would Jesus die the death He did if the law did not condemn us to death?

Because it does condemn us as sinners Jesus needed to either remove the law, OR pay the price of transgressing the law.

No law = no sin. = no need for mercy and grace.

But God did not remove the law He paid the price on our behalf..

The law was not removed or changed.

We are freed from the condemnation of the law by grace through faith. But that is not an excuse to continue in sin.

To answer your question... why would God put people under the law that kills?

Firstly, Jesus has freed us from the penalty of death by paying it Himself. So the death that comes from transgressing the law is able to be taken away if we are forgiven by faith.
Secondly, God has not removed the moral standard of right so that we can be free to transgress the law. God has not removed the justice of the law or the result of transgressing the law because the law is holy Just and good.
It is still death to kill, and transgress the law because it seperates us from God.
God has not changed the definition of sin so that we are not sinners. God does not change His moral standards..
So God keeps the moral law unchanged so we can understand what is sin. But He has given us a second chance to walk away without guilt by the death and blood of Jesus...

Perfectly combined Justice and mercy.

 

[Gideon300]

Tell me why would Jesus die the death He did if the law did not condemn us to death?

Because it does condemn us as sinners Jesus needed to either remove the law, OR pay the price of transgressing the law.

No law = no sin. = no need for mercy and grace.

But God did not remove the law He paid the price on our behalf..

The law was not removed or changed.

We are freed from the condemnation of the law by grace through faith. But that is not an excuse to continue in sin.

To answer your question... why would God put people under the law that kills?

Firstly, Jesus has freed us from the penalty of death by paying it Himself. So the death that comes from transgressing the law is able to be taken away if we are forgiven by faith.
Secondly, God has not removed the moral standard of right so that we can be free to transgress the law. God has not removed the justice of the law or the result of transgressing the law because the law is holy Just and good.
It is still death to kill, and transgress the law because it seperates us from God.
God has not changed the definition of sin so that we are not sinners. God does not change His moral standards..
So God keeps the moral law unchanged so we can understand what is sin. But He has given us a second chance to walk away without guilt by the death and blood of Jesus...

Perfectly combined Justice and mercy.

New Covenant, New Life, New law. It's the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. Now if Jesus can sin, then so can we. I don't know why Christians assume that living under the new covenant is a licence to sin. It's the opposite. Lord Jesus told us that we could obey the law outwardly but still be sinning. That's the point of the sermon on the mount.