The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[JayWalker]

According to the Scriptures, the promises are better- not the law itself. Heb8:6 The laws went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10

And yet the law itself was changed by Jesus from the law of Moses to the Law of Christ which is superior.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

I would spend my time trying to understand the better promises instead of going after something the God of everything said He would not alter

You're confused. Most SDA people are.

God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34

 

[JayWalker]

The Holy Spirit of Truth wrote the Ten Commandments so can you please explain how being led by the Holy Spirit would not lead one to keep the laws He wrote on stone than in the NC believers heart. If as if your version the Holy Spirit is at odds with His own laws.

So when you sin, what kind of animal is the Holy Spirit leading to to whack to temporarily cover your sin?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

So when you sin, what kind of animal is the Holy Spirit leading to to whack to temporarily cover your sin?

There are no animal sacrifices in the Ten Commandments- that is the law that describes what sin is 1John3:4 breaking one of these commandments we break them all James2:10-12. The law of Moses with the animal sacrifices was the law that was added and was temporary until the Seed. Animal sacrifices could never take away sins Heb10:1-15 which is why Jesus had to be our Sacrificial Lamb. What changed in the NT is how we go about forgiveness of sins. Its still a sin to worship other gods, or steal from our neighbor or break the least of these commandments and continuing in that path Jesus said leads to sin and judgement. Mat5:19-30

 

[SabbathBlessing]

And yet the law itself was changed by Jesus from the law of Moses to the Law of Christ which is superior.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

The covenant changed which is an agreement, The laws went from written on stone to being written in the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb 8:10

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Yes, the New Covenant is established on better promises, not better laws as it still has God's laws that only He can define because He is God now written in our minds and hearts if we do not rebel Rom8:7-8

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Or we could allow the context in the next verses tell us the law it speaks of and why it had to change, instead of coming up with our own ideas.


Heb 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.


Exo 31:24So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26“Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you

Not to be confused with the laws that God wrote with His finger Exo31:18 that were inside the ark of the covenant Exo25:21 the laws that atones for our sins which His blood covers. Not subjecting ourselves to God's laws Rom8:7-8 doesn;t remove our sin, it removes His mercy and just covers our sins Pro28:13 Exo20:6 which is not where we want to be once He returns Heb10:26-30

You're confused. Most SDA people are.

Or perhaps its the opposite.

God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34

Yes a covenant is an agreement, not a set of laws. The agreement changed based on better promises, not the words- God promised not to alter His words Psa 89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 because again God doesn't make mistakes His laws are perfect Psa 19:7 holy and just Rom7:12 we are the ones who makes mistakes not trusting in what He asks us to keep if we love Him Exo20:6 John14:15 1John5:3

 

[vassal]

God's moral law is included in the New Testament under the Doctrine of Christ yes.

But the New Testament does not refer to walking in the ten commandments but rather teaches walking in the Spirit being led by the Holy Spirit which is a much higher standard than ten commandments

Those going around saying we are to keep ten commandments are still in diapers not coming close to understanding how much better the New Covenant is than the old.

This response sidesteps the most important voice in the entire conversation — Jesus Himself. You can build theological frameworks around walking in the Spirit and the New Covenant being better than the old — and there is truth in those concepts — but you cannot do it by talking past the direct words of Christ.

Jesus did not say keep the commandments as a childish starting point you eventually graduate from. He said:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)​

That is a rebuke — and remarkably it fits precisely the position being argued here. Teaching others that the commandments are beneath them — that they have graduated past them into something higher — is exactly what Jesus warned against in that verse. Those are His words not mine.

And when a man came sincerely asking about eternal life Jesus did not say walk in the Spirit and leave the commandments behind. He said:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)​

Not as a stepping stone. Not as spiritual diapers. As the answer to the question of eternal life — spoken by the Author of eternal life Himself.

Walking in the Spirit does not replace the commandments — it empowers us to keep them from the heart rather than the flesh. That is the entire point of the New Covenant as Jeremiah declared it:

I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts. (Jeremiah 31:33)​

The same law. Written deeper. By the Spirit. The Spirit does not lead us away from the commandments of God — He leads us into them more fully and more genuinely than any external rule ever could.

And Jesus left absolutely no room for ambiguity on where obedience and love stand together:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

He that hath my commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth me. (John 14:21)

This is not the language of spiritual immaturity. This is the language of intimate love between a believer and his Lord. To suggest that keeping the commandments of Christ is wearing spiritual diapers is to contradict Christ directly — and that is a serious place to stand.

The New Covenant is indeed glorious and better than what came before — but its glory is not that it freed us from God's moral law. Its glory is that it writes that same law on our hearts by the Holy Spirit so that we can finally keep it as God always intended — from love rather than fear and from the inside out rather than the outside in.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

Those are the words of Christ. They have not changed.

 

[TMS]

Yes, the Laws in the NC. This letter (Hebrews) was meant for the Jews who converted, because they, like you, wanted to hold onto the traditions and laws of the OC. It must’ve been very hard for them to let go, but you must.

Paul was quoting directly from OT...
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The law that Jer 31 is referring to must be the 10 commandments.

It isn't the referring to future laws or the laws that would be abolished at the cross.. God's moral laws that are perfect.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Tables of stone = 10 commandments
Fleshly tables of the heart = 10 commandments on the heart

The 10 commandments are central to the New Covenant.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[Cameron143]

This response sidesteps the most important voice in the entire conversation — Jesus Himself. You can build theological frameworks around walking in the Spirit and the New Covenant being better than the old — and there is truth in those concepts — but you cannot do it by talking past the direct words of Christ.

Jesus did not say keep the commandments as a childish starting point you eventually graduate from. He said:

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19)​

That is a rebuke — and remarkably it fits precisely the position being argued here. Teaching others that the commandments are beneath them — that they have graduated past them into something higher — is exactly what Jesus warned against in that verse. Those are His words not mine.

And when a man came sincerely asking about eternal life Jesus did not say walk in the Spirit and leave the commandments behind. He said:

If thou wouldest enter into life keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:17)​

Not as a stepping stone. Not as spiritual diapers. As the answer to the question of eternal life — spoken by the Author of eternal life Himself.

Walking in the Spirit does not replace the commandments — it empowers us to keep them from the heart rather than the flesh. That is the entire point of the New Covenant as Jeremiah declared it:

I will put My law in their minds and write it on their hearts. (Jeremiah 31:33)​

The same law. Written deeper. By the Spirit. The Spirit does not lead us away from the commandments of God — He leads us into them more fully and more genuinely than any external rule ever could.

And Jesus left absolutely no room for ambiguity on where obedience and love stand together:

If ye love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

He that hath my commandments and keepeth them he it is that loveth me. (John 14:21)

This is not the language of spiritual immaturity. This is the language of intimate love between a believer and his Lord. To suggest that keeping the commandments of Christ is wearing spiritual diapers is to contradict Christ directly — and that is a serious place to stand.

The New Covenant is indeed glorious and better than what came before — but its glory is not that it freed us from God's moral law. Its glory is that it writes that same law on our hearts by the Holy Spirit so that we can finally keep it as God always intended — from love rather than fear and from the inside out rather than the outside in.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

Those are the words of Christ. They have not changed.

That's false. No one is arguing for anyone to not keep commandments. And no one wants to be free of morality. The argument is that Christ in us holds us to the standard and the Holy Spirit leads us into righteousness.
You, on the other hand, have made an idol of the law, and encourage people to seek after obedience rather than pursue Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Jesus speaking here- its not love Jesus or keep His commandments, they are mutually exclusive

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments

On the other hand...

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

One groups keeps them though love and faith and are reconciled Rev22:14 the other group Jesus says He doesn't know them at His Second Coming Mat7:23

 

[vassal]

That's false. No one is arguing for anyone to not keep commandments. And no one wants to be free of morality. The argument is that Christ in us holds us to the standard and the Holy Spirit leads us into righteousness.
You, on the other hand, have made an idol of the law, and encourage people to seek after obedience rather than pursue Christ.

You just proved the point.

You say "no one is arguing against keeping commandments" — and then immediately accuse me of idolatry for quoting Christ's own words about keeping them. You cannot have it both ways.

No one here is pursuing obedience instead of Christ. The argument is that pursuit of Christ produces obedience — exactly as He said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Obedience is not the rival of loving Christ. It is the fruit of it. Jesus said so, not me.

And the charge of "making an idol of the law" is a serious accusation to level at someone for doing nothing more than quoting Jesus directly. If these words constitute law-worship, take it up with the One who spoke them.

The question was never law or Christ. It was always Christ and therefore His commandments — which is precisely what He taught.

 

[Cameron143]

You just proved the point.

You say "no one is arguing against keeping commandments" — and then immediately accuse me of idolatry for quoting Christ's own words about keeping them. You cannot have it both ways.

No one here is pursuing obedience instead of Christ. The argument is that pursuit of Christ produces obedience — exactly as He said: "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Obedience is not the rival of loving Christ. It is the fruit of it. Jesus said so, not me.

And the charge of "making an idol of the law" is a serious accusation to level at someone for doing nothing more than quoting Jesus directly. If these words constitute law-worship, take it up with the One who spoke them.

The question was never law or Christ. It was always Christ and therefore His commandments — which is precisely what He taught.

Because all you speak of are Christ's words, and not Christ. Christ's is great. His words evidence this. You have become a modern day Pharisee and don't even recognize it. I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Your version of the the verse is: I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and how obedient you are to Him.

Hopefully you will see the difference.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Because all you speak of are Christ's words, and not Christ. Christ's is great. His words evidence this. You have become a modern day Pharisee and don't even recognize it. I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Your version of the the verse is: I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and how obedient you are to Him.

Hopefully you will see the difference.

The Pharisees never advocated to keep the law of God, they advocated their own laws and traditions in which Jesus condemned. Mat 15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 as did Paul Rom 2:21-23

The idea that God is looking for rebellious disobedient children is not found in our Bibles. Sadly this is a doctrine the other spirit wants us to believe. Obeying what God says is bad and disobeying Him is good. According to Scripture whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16 why @vassal keeps pointing people back to what Christ asks, because we are to serve the LORD which is shown through our actions. Anyone can say Lord Lord- He said in His own words that's not what He is seeking Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48. That brings to mind our previous discussion how you believe His sayings are for other people.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sure they are....the same covenant made to Israel, the one where He forgives our sins and remembers them no more, which if we are not part of, I would be concerned. The one that has His laws written in our hearts and minds. Heb8:10 Written in our minds to know and do them, written in the heart because we love Him and delight in doing the will of God Psa 40:8. Those who are in this covenant with God enter by faith.

If we don't have our Fathers Laws written in our heart- whose laws are governing us? Whoever we obey is who we serve. Christ invites us to serve Him, sadly many refuse because they do not like the conditions. They want the blessings on their terms, not God's.

God made sure the Gentiles were included- those who love and want to join themselves to the LORD to serve Him and no one else.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 56 - New King James Version

Salvation for the Gentiles - Thus says the Lord: “Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from...

www.biblegateway.com

Salvation for the Gentiles​

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”
Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
4For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6Also the sons of the foreigner (Gentiles)
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

We know that any Gentile that joins that former covenant must be circumcised, and be living in Israel.

Let's let AI have say on this topic given AI will adhere to the context.

Paul relies relatively little on the Mosaic Law as a foundation for his theology because
he argues that the coming of Jesus Christ fulfilled, completed, and surpassed its purpose.
His letters, particularly Romans and Galatians, emphasize that righteousness is attained
through faith in Jesus, not by adherence to the "works of the law".

Here is a breakdown of why Paul de-emphasizes the law:

1. Christ is the Goal and End of the Law
Paul argues that the Law’s purpose was temporary, acting as a "tutor" or "custodian" (Greek: paidagogos) only until Christ arrived. Once faith in Christ came, believers were no longer under that custodian. In this context, "Christ is the end of the law" (Romans 10:4), meaning he is its culmination, purpose, and termination as a system for achieving righteousness.

2. The Inability of the Law to Save
Paul emphasizes that the law is not a means to salvation because it is impossible for human beings to keep it perfectly. Therefore, relying on the law leads to a "curse" (Galatians 3:10) rather than justification. Paul argues that if righteousness came through the law, "then Christ died to no purpose" (Galatians 2:21).

3. The Shift from Law to Grace and Spirit
Paul frequently contrasts being "under the law" (a state of bondage or curse) with being "under grace" (a state of freedom and justification).

• The Powerless Law vs. The Empowering Spirit: Paul notes that the law is weak "through the flesh" (our sinful nature), but the Holy Spirit empowers believers to live righteously.
• New Life: Christians are called to serve in the "new life of the Spirit" rather than the "old way of the written code" (Romans 7:6).

4. Primarily Addressing Gentile Believers
A significant portion of Paul’s letters were written to Gentile (non-Jewish) converts. Insisting on the Mosaic Law (especially circumcision and dietary laws) for Gentiles would have created unnecessary barriers to the gospel, making them "second-class" citizens, which Paul strongly rejected.

5. Reinterpreting the Law as "Wisdom"
While Paul rejects the law as a covenant of works, he does not completely discard it. He still considers it "holy, just, and good" (Romans 7:12) and uses it as a source of ethical "wisdom" for living. He interprets the Law's essence—specifically the command to love one's neighbor—as being fulfilled by the Spirit-led life, not by legalistic compliance (Galatians 5:14).

In summary, Paul argues that while the law was a divine, temporary guardian, Christ is the new, final authority, making grace, not legal compliance, the basis of the believer's relationship with God.
must be living in Israel (sojourner).

 

[Inquisitor]

Because all you speak of are Christ's words, and not Christ. Christ's is great. His words evidence this. You have become a modern day Pharisee and don't even recognize it. I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Your version of the the verse is: I care to know nothing amongst you save Jesus Christ and how obedient you are to Him.

Hopefully you will see the difference.

Correction Cameron.

They say believe in Jesus and strictly obey the sabbath.

The obedience is to the sabbath; the great controversy.

 

[Inquisitor]

Its basically saying I want to do the very least required to get into heaven. I can sin like the devil 1John3:8 and be saved

Who ever said that?

No one ever said that you can hate God and everyone else?

Where are you getting your information from?

 

[Cameron143]

The Pharisees never advocated to keep the law of God, they advocated their own laws and traditions in which Jesus condemned. Mat 15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 as did Paul Rom 2:21-23

The idea that God is looking for rebellious disobedient children is not found in our Bibles. Sadly this is a doctrine the other spirit wants us to believe. Obeying what God says is bad and disobeying Him is good. According to Scripture whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16 why @vassal keeps pointing people back to what Christ asks, because we are to serve the LORD which is shown through our actions. Anyone can say Lord Lord- He said in His own words that's not what He is seeking Mat7:21-23 Luke6:46-48. That brings to mind our previous discussion how you believe His sayings are for other people.

The Pharisees definitely advocated keeping the law. That they had perverted the law is plain, and is why Jesus said to do as they say and not as they do. And you also employ strawmen. No one said God is looking for rebellious disobedient children. He is in fact creating obedient children by conforming us into the image of Christ. But rather than glorifying God by praising Him for this, you focus on the individual and his endeavor to attempt to obey. In doing so, I believe you exalt the actions of men above the activity of God in us.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The Pharisees definitely advocated keeping the law. That they had perverted the law is plain, and is why Jesus said to do as they say and not as they do. And you also employ strawmen. No one said God is looking for rebellious disobedient children. He is in fact creating obedient children by conforming us into the image of Christ. But rather than glorifying God by praising Him for this, you focus on the individual and his endeavor to attempt to obey. In doing so, I believe you exalt the actions of men above the activity of God in us.

Their laws, not God's. Why Jesus condemned them. Mat15:1-14 He never condemned one person for keeping His commandments. He asked us to keep them, if we love Him. Why this is even a debate shows how far we have gone away from doing the will of God Psa 40:8 Mat7:21-23

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Who ever said that?

No one ever said that you can hate God and everyone else?

Where are you getting your information from?

Than why quote Paul (out of context) to correct God? Did God teach one person not to keep His commandments? He taught the opposite, as did Paul 1Cor7:19

 

[Inquisitor]

So worshipping only God ceased? Committing adultery no longer a sin? All the prophecies in the OT destroyed that have yet to be fulfilled, the opposite of what Christ taught. Mat5:19-30

In Acts 15, the apostles told the Gentiles that they must not commit sexual immorality.

You said, "committing adultery no longer a sin"

Adultery is the former commandment is included in the same rule the apostles gave to the Gentiles.

Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality.

Did Paul teach new churches to abstain from sexual immorality or adultery?

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality.

Paul only mentions adultery in Romans and Romans is Paul talking about the Jews.

Another commandment that Paul never mentions is coveting in his 12 letters.

Paul only mentions coveting once and again only in Romans.

As for murder need I repeat myself; only mentioned in Romans.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and never put the Gentiles under the law.

Sabbathblessing, you do not understand what your talking about.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

In Acts 15, the apostles told the Gentiles that they must not commit sexual immorality.

You said, "committing adultery no longer a sin"

Adultery is the former commandment is included in the same rule the apostles gave to the Gentiles.

Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality.

Did Paul teach new churches to abstain from sexual immorality or adultery?

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality.

Paul only mentions adultery in Romans and Romans is Paul talking about the Jews.

Another commandment that Paul never mentions is coveting in his 12 letters.

Paul only mentions coveting once and again only in Romans.

As for murder need I repeat myself; only mentioned in Romans.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and never put the Gentiles under the law.

Sabbathblessing, you do not understand what your talking about.

You took what I said out of context and misquoted me. I never said 'committing adultery no longer a sin" it was a question to someone else about their beliefs, not mine.

Why would you do that? Sadly I see a pattern here of doing this exact thing with Scriptures as well.

I do find it odd in one breath you quote Paul saying Christ is the end of the law but in the next you say we should not be committing adultery, which is a law of God. Obviously some misunderstandings.

Please in tthe future quote my entire post because

 

[Inquisitor]

Than why quote Paul (out of context) to correct God? Did God teach one person not to keep His commandments? He taught the opposite, as did Paul 1Cor7:19

Wrong commandments sabbathblessing.

Paul taught the law of Christ not the law of Moses.