I must be asleep today! I kept trying to read "My" His" of course that makes perfect sense!
The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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So please show me from Scripture where there was any other law below the mercy seat that His blood covers other than the Ten Commandments- not by your words but by Scripture. I am not sure why we are elevating what was outside the ark of God's covenant with what God placed inside below His mercy or atonement seat.
If you have Scripture that shows otherwise I am open to seeing it, but I have studied this carefully and only the Ten Commandments, the Testimony of God written by God not man is under His mercy /atonement seat. Please show me by Scripture otherwise.
I did look at it, why it was quoted in my post and addressed. Are you claiming God puts people to death without telling them its wrong? We obviously have a very different view of God's character.
The gospel calls all mankind to REPENT of their sins and put their FAITH in Messiah in order to be saved or delivered. The word translated "believe or "have faith" is pistis which means more than merely agreeing with and adopting a theological proposition. Trusting IN HIM entails ENTRUSTING ourselves TO Him. It involves actively DEPENDING upon Him. The way Jesus described this as a Jesus described this as a personal transaction between us and Himself.
24 Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life [soul] will lose it, but whoever loses his life [soul] for My sake will find it [i.e., he will find life]. 26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?…
(Matthew 16:24-26)
Jesus also described this as an "exchange" (our life for His). Only by taking this step of faith can we realize the promise of eternal life. Believing is not a meritorious WORK by which we earn or merit the benefits of the Messianic promise. Jesus work as the sacrificed Lamb of God is what takes away our (past) sin and it is only by the inner working of the Holy Spirit that God's character be "inscribed on our hearts." This is what the New Covenant is all about.
…11 And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is IN HIS SON. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life (1 John 5:11-12)
The Pharisees thought that by immersing themselves in the word they could become like God and, if anyone could have done it, they would have. However, Jesus rebuked them saying: 39 You pore over the Scriptures because you presume that by them you possess eternal life. These are the very words that testify about Me, 40 yet you refuse to come to Me to have life
(John 5:11-12)
This is the message you SHOULD be proclaiming. Instead, your camp offers a hybrid gospel of grace and works that makes keeping Shabbat one criteria by which believers will be damned or saved. The Apostles never said anything like this.
When I have time God willing. But in reality all you’re doing here is creating a rabbit hole. Unless you think it’s not a sin if we don’t teach and pray for others. And like I said, there are many other sins that are covered in the book of the law and prophets that are not part of the ten.
No my friend, its what God did, He placed only the Ten Commandments under His mercy seat Exo31:18 Exo25:21, not the law of Moses. That was besides the ark added years next to the ark decades later Deut31:24-26. Praying is serving the LORD and would fall under the first 4 commandments.
If you have a Scripture that shows the law of Moses was under God's atonement/mercy seat I am would happy to look at that, but quite clearly it was the Ten Commandments- God's perfect law Psa 19:7n written personally and divinely by God, not man that covers everything on how to serve and worship Him in the first 4 commandments and how to love our neighbor in the last six the way Jesus magnified them Mat5:19-30 as promised Isa 42:21
The point is not that Abraham had the Mosaic Law—he didn’t. The point is that Abraham responded faithfully to every form of divine instruction he received. I don't recall an occasion when Abraham rested on the Seventh day.
That's not exactly what Paul said. He said that where there is no Law, sin is not imputed. The point is, there was no legal code between Adam and Moses.
If there was no codified legal system (no Torah, no Sinai covenant, no written commandments), then Abraham’s obedience can only be understood as obedience to direct revelation. As Paul argues, Abraham was not obeying a Law.
Adam and Eve sinned, yes. Even here, the couple was not disobeying a Law; they disobeyed a direct command from God.
Obedience before Sinai was immediate and personal—Abraham heard God’s voice and responded directly to it—whereas after Sinai obedience and disobedience were mediated through a written covenant. The Law of Moses functioned as an intermediary standard, turning God’s will into a codified structure of commands, statutes, and ordinances that defined righteousness and transgression for the nation. Abraham’s obedience flowed from relational trust in the One who spoke to him; Israel’s obedience flowed from conformity to a revealed legal system. In this way, the giving of the Law shifted the dynamic from direct, voice‑to‑person obedience to obedience that was filtered through a covenant document, a priesthood, and a national constitution.
Paul argues that there was no Law until Moses. So what about Cain? How does God hold him responsible for his sin? Even though Genesis never records God explicitly saying “Do not murder” before Cain killed Abel, the narrative assumes Cain already knew the act was morally forbidden because certain moral imperatives are hard‑wired into human conscience. God warns Cain that “sin is crouching at the door,” Cain hides the murder, and God judges him as one who has violated a known boundary — all of which only make sense if Cain possessed an innate awareness of the wrongness of murder. This fits Paul’s teaching in Romans 2:14–15, where he explains that even those without the written Law “show that the work of the law is written on their hearts,” their conscience bearing witness. In this way, Cain’s guilt reflects a pre‑Sinai moral order in which God’s will was known through conscience and direct revelation, not through a codified legal system.
on their hearts,” their conscience bearing witness. In this way, Cain’s guilt reflects a pre‑Sinai moral order in which God’s will was known through conscience and direct revelation, not through a codified legal system.
Agreed.
It was codified a few verses earlier.
Yes, God rested on the seventh day of creation. But we are talking about the distinction between obeying direct revelation (Abraham, Adam), disobeying an innate sense of moral goodness (Cain) and obeying a Law (Moses).
We know that Gentiles are not under the Law of Moses. Therefore, your argument for Sabbath Observance was based on the Ten Commandments, which you argued is carried over from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.
Giving up on that argument, your current claim is that Sabbath Observance predated the Old Covenant and, therefore, all of humanity is obligated to keep it. We have seen, however, that Adam and Abraham weren't obeying the laws; they were obeying direct revelation. And since we have no Biblical evidence to support your contention that God commanded them, through direct revelation, to observe the Sabbath we can't agree that all human beings are obligated to observe the Sabbath Day.
an innate sense of Moral goodness.
So you are teaching it is okay to commit incest, not pray for others, not teach and study and so forth. Even though the are mentioned in the Book of the Law and prophets
And if these are sins then they are not covered because they are not part of the ten.
And please don’t say incest is covered under adultery. It is even implied in the three words that given in the Hebrew.
Why would you not think incest is under adultery? Would that not start with lust of flesh which Jesus related to adultery. Why would not praying to God not be part of worshipping only Him as shown in the first 4 commandments.
Jesus related sexual immortality to adultery
Mat5: 32But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.
Obviously they mean and cover much more than stated why they are so broad Psa119:89 why only the Ten is under God's mercy seat
You claimed the law of Moses is under God's mercy seat, please show it through Scripture. If its there it should be easy to find.
I underlined the portion that stood out.
Yeah, such a "gospel", saying that humans were created primarily for obedience, could only come from a creature whose only function is to obey. Did I provide enough context clues or should I expound?
As an aside and in a completely unrelated although actually related point, in the whole of scripture I am unaware of any reference to the angels loving anyone: God or otherwise. Angels were created only to serve the House of God.
No, I'm saying the corruption of sin kills.
Romans 5:12-14 KJV
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Even without the Law, sin was still in the world, but it was not counted against those who committed the sin. Nonetheless, sin kills.
Much love!
This was addressed, you are free to address what has already been addressed:
There was law obviously before Moses that counted for sin.
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
In Romans 5:13, Paul says:
But then immediately:
Where there is no law there is no sin
Did not Adam and Eve sin? They sure did, therefore there was the law of God. Did not God say it was sin for Cain to murder Abel, therefore there was God's law. The fact that people died between Adam and Moses for sin proves there was moral awareness of God's laws before it was codified at Mt Sinai. As shown in Exo 16:26-28 . the Sabbath was a commandment of God before it was codified
The bigger issue why let the servant override the Master- God said the Sabbath started at Creation - it is in God's written Testimony the Ten Commandments Exo20:11 and everything God did at Creation was made for mankind, including the Sabbath Mark2:27-28 made before Israel, before Jew, before Moses, before sin, just man and God.
Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
1John2:4 4 ;He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Why we have to be careful which character we are reflecting.
No law = no sin. The devil plainly sinned in heaven why he was cast out. Why do you think God's government has no laws. No government can uphold righteousness (right-doing) without laws. Why would God's government be any different. God never left it up to man to write His holy laws- He personally wrote them Exo31:18 they are in His heavenly temple Rev11:19 which the earthy temple was copied from Heb 9:23-24 Heb8:1-5.
We have had human experiments of lawlessness and we see the result of that hence Portland and Washington- why would you think God's heavenly government is in chaos.
Its why many people will not be happy in heaven John3:19-21, because there will be no more sin, because everyone will be keeping the law of God- no one will be breaking the Ten Commandments.
Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Definitely expound; not just for me but for those following along.
Interesting point about angels. I'll explore that further.
The real point I'm emphasizing is that those who insist upon relating to God on the basis of obedience neither know what true obedience is and cannot articulate how obedience is possible.
Because it isn't
No one here doing that either. At least not from the SDA camp
Transgression is a judicial term meaning violation, that is, of a command. It's crossing a line that you are not supposed to cross. If the line hasn't been drawn, it's not there to cross. If the line was to keep you back from a cliff, and you cross it, and fall off that cliff, the lack of a line doesn't mean the cliff isn't there, or that you won't die, only that no one is telling you not to go there.
With or without that line, you will still die if you fall off the cliff. Only, without the line, you've not broken any rules.
Much love!
Wow! Your introduction of this false equivalency turns your arguments on their head. It seems as though you are trying to "win at any cost." Not good.
Much love!
I'll explain a little further although I am certainly not under any obligation to do so.
Either you have very poor reading skills or you have pretty much ignored my posts because I do not think the gospel is just about forgiveness of sin. I don't know. Perhaps you are one of those people who twist what others say because you are so hot to express your opinions you don't take the time to to give anyone else a footnote. Like I said, I don't know, but I am familiar with your posts and I find you sharp and judgemental but not in the sense you have any sort of discernment in your rush to nail people according to your level of spiritual growth.
And by the way, your accusation, this type of response, is one reason this forum has a problem keeping good people here. Understanding can be either a gift or developed over time. You are a relatively new member here but you swing wide as if you
just have to hit something. I have been here at least 10 or more years, having left and come back again and I am very familiar with the way some post here. I have seen plenty in this forum but I have honestly never seen an attack against the gospel such as is going on in this thread and several others started by the op.
I am not angry so much as disappointed and weary of this blatant and ongoing deliberate deviation of the actual gospel as found in the New Testament.
I do not and generally have not, found your posts worthy of consideration and yes, you are also on ignore.
It sounds like you Judaizers think Christ's purpose in dying for us was simply to restore the laws of the Mosaic covenant and to empower us to keep them. It follows from this that the "law He writes on our hearts" involves giving us the desire to eat kosher, keep the festivals. Of course, this would also include God's command that all males be circumcised in accordance with the covenants of Abraham and Moses.
Interestingly though, the NT does not require any believer to do those things. You have once again made righteous standing with God dependent on keeping OT laws and customs. Because of this, I see no difference between you and the Judaeizers Paul opposed.
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.
(Romans 3:20)
For if those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless,
(Romans 4:14)
but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
(Romans 9:31-32)
Interestingly though, the NT does not require any believer to do those things. You have once again made righteous standing with God dependent on keeping OT laws and customs. Because of this, I see no difference between you and the Judaeizers Paul opposed.
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin.
(Romans 3:20)
For if those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless,
(Romans 4:14)
but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
(Romans 9:31-32)
How so? The fast that people died because of sin shows that sin kills, and it does not give any information concerning the sinner's mindset. Nothing.
Your assertion that they died because they knew they were in violation of God's law directly contradicts the Scripture which states the they died because they sinned, not because they knew they sinned, and specifically states that this was the case, and that no commands had been given other than to not eat from THAT tree.
Why not continue the Sabbath to it's fullness, why stick with the shadow? Hebrews teaches (you must know this) that the Sabbath rest that remains is a permanent rest in the finished work of Christ. We rest in Jesus Christ, and that is all the time, not just one day a week.
Will you trade your forever rest in Christ for keeping a day? You are free to do both, you can keep the 7th day rest, but if you think it adds to your standing with God you are fallen from Grace, in Paul's terms. The real rest for us is in Christ,
On the seventh day, God rested from "all" His work. Not just some of it.
Much love!