The theif on the cross misconceptions

[Polar]

In fact, it's easy to understand. Listen to God. Even if he wants you to go to hell, don't doubt it. But in the end, if you listen to him, God has prepared heaven for you.

even if God wants you to go to hell don't doubt it?

Look, I know you are not a believer, so perhaps you should not be offering anti-biblical advice to anyone

smh

 

[Polar]

I continually encounter people trying to justify that baptism is not an absolute necessity for one's salvation by use (erroneously) of the thief on the cross as justification, as he was not baptized but yet saved by the Lord, which is true! BUT, the error in this is the lack of understanding of the scriptures. You must read and understand Hebrews 9:15-17 which clarifies why the thief on the cross was saved by Jesus without being baptized. Christ was still alive when this occurred meaning it was done while the old testament or covenant was still in effect; the new testament had not yet been established because Christ had not yet died. And since the Lord was still alive no one could possibly be baptized into Christ under NT salvation criteria. Baptism did not become a requirement as part of salvation until the new testament began which was after the death of Christ. Jesus forgave the thief on the cross no different than he forgave others during his earthly ministry, such as the woman caught in the act of adultery as recorded in John 8. Baptism should not even be an issue when discussing the thief on the cross, but unfortunately always is, but in error.

this again

you are actually saying that Christ did not accomplish full salvation and His blood was not enough to secure forgiveness of our sin

nope

this has been debated over and over and over in this forum and there are some who will agree with you but most will not

baptism is symbolic and we should be baptized but it does not save us

feel free to explain away though

 

[Polar]

Baptism is a command and everything done on the flesh requires a work of some sort, but it's not a work of the flesh as condemned as in Galatians nor a work of the law. Too many scriptures to ignor that say it's required. Keep I'm mind also that you're baptized into Christ, baptized into his death, you become a member of the church by baptism as the Lord adds you to his body according to Acts 2:47. No other way does this or can this happen.

nope

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

[ I continually encounter people trying to justify that baptism is not an absolute necessity for one's salvation by use (erroneously) of the thief on the cross as justification, as he was not baptized but yet saved by the Lord, which is true! BUT, the error in this is the lack of understanding of the scriptures. You must read and understand Hebrews 9:15-17 which clarifies why the thief on the cross was saved by Jesus without being baptized. Christ was still alive when this occurred meaning it was done while the old testament or covenant was still in effect; the new testament had not yet been established because Christ had not yet died. And since the Lord was still alive no one could possibly be baptized into Christ under NT salvation criteria. Baptism did not become a requirement as part of salvation until the new testament began which was after the death of Christ. Jesus forgave the thief on the cross no different than he forgave others during his earthly ministry, such as the woman caught in the act of adultery as recorded in John 8. Baptism should not even be an issue when discussing the thief on the cross, but unfortunately always is, but in error.]

You cannot contradict one scripture with another, you can complement it but not contradict it. Jesus said to the ex-thief on the cross, [Today you shall be with me in Paradise.] Period. That's just lame. I don't know if anybody told you, but you are pushing salvation by works which means we have to do something else to get saved besides having faith in Christ.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Baptism is a work of God, not of humans. John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, not of the will of man, but of God.

Baptism is a work of man in obedience to God's word, but it is not a requirement to get saved. What do you do if a dying person embraces Christ and trusts Him to save him from his sins? Do you tell him that he is going to hell because he wasn't baptized?

You are pushing heresy.

 

[DJT_47]

this again

you are actually saying that Christ did not accomplish full salvation and His blood was not enough to secure forgiveness of our sin

nope

this has been debated over and over and over in this forum and there are some who will agree with you but most will not

baptism is symbolic and we should be baptized but it does not save us

feel free to explain away though

I'm not saying anything. It's not my words but scripture. I'm simply citing the scriptures in an attempt to open up the understanding of those that may not be aware.

 

[soberxp]

even if God wants you to go to hell don't doubt it?

Look, I know you are not a believer, so perhaps you should not be offering anti-biblical advice to anyone

smh

I think he said the door never be closed when it was open,

 

[soberxp]

II just want to be a sheep obedient to God. I don't want to call myself a Christian or a believer anymore,it's a shame.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Baptism is a work of man in obedience to God's word, but it is not a requirement to get saved. What do you do if a dying person embraces Christ and trusts Him to save him from his sins? Do you tell him that he is going to hell because he wasn't baptized?

You are pushing heresy.

The only error in your post is that baptism is a work of man. Even John the Baptist said that there will be someone else who will be baptizing with the Holy Spirit (not water). When the disciples of John were preached to concerning Jesus by Paul, it was then that they automatically were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. That baptism occured through preaching and not by water. In the Great Commission, Christ said to go out and teach all nations about Christ so that the same baptism with out water in the name of Jesus Christ can occur through preaching.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

[The only error in your post is that baptism is a work of man.]

Does God baptize you in water or does a man (pastor, elder, brother, etc.) do it in obedience to God's word?

 

[CorrectiveLens]

[The only error in your post is that baptism is a work of man.]

Does God baptize you in water or does a man (pastor, elder, brother, etc.) do it in obedience to God's word?

It is Christ who does the baptizing and not with water. Man baptizes ( without water) when he preaches salvation through Christ and the person preached to believes. He is baptized in the name of the Son automatically. Baptism with water is still preached in Judaism and they even have pools called mikvehs to accomplish their baptism. They baptize for ritual cleansing, and other occasions such as before marriages, ordinations, etc. Water baptism is a Jewish ritual usually for spiritual cleansing. We now have a new Baptism where Christ does the cleansing and the perfecting through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Polar]

I think he said the door never be closed when it was open,

I think you believe some strange things that are not in the Bible and try to make it seem you follow Christ but I have read where you said you are not a Christian. now you say you don't want to call yourself a Christian.

In fact, it's easy to understand. Listen to God. Even if he wants you to go to hell, don't doubt it. But in the end, if you listen to him, God has prepared heaven for you.

you think God desires that some people go to hell and a person should be happy and not doubt it?

I'm not thinking this is just a language issue either

 

[Polar]

I'm not saying anything. It's not my words but scripture. I'm simply citing the scriptures in an attempt to open up the understanding of those that may not be aware.

you have said plenty

you are giving one opinion after the other....I am after truth and not opinions...not even my own

the way you twisted my post from July speaks volumes about how you approach 'truth'

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

It is Christ who does the baptizing and not with water. Man baptizes ( without water) when he preaches salvation through Christ and the person preached to believes. He is baptized in the name of the Son automatically. Baptism with water is still preached in Judaism and they even have pools called mikvehs to accomplish their baptism. They baptize for ritual cleansing, and other occasions such as before marriages, ordinations, etc. Water baptism is a Jewish ritual usually for spiritual cleansing. We now have a new Baptism where Christ does the cleansing and the perfecting through the Holy Spirit.

I don't give a fig about what the Jews do, did, or believed in. I was talking about baptism in water which a believer goes through in obedience to God's word. It is not necessary for salvation, but it is necessary to make us understand what happened in the Spirit. We are born again by faith in Christ, we are baptized by the Holy Spirit by faith, and we are baptized in water through faith in Christ.

LSB Acts 16:30-33 And after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your house.”
32 And they spoke the word of 1the Lord to him together with all who were in his household.
33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Matthew 28:19–20 (LSB)
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[TheLearner]

rth

 

[TheLearner]

I don't give a fig about what the Jews do, did, or believed in. I was talking about baptism in water which a believer goes through in obedience to God's word. It is not necessary for salvation, but it is necessary to make us understand what happened in the Spirit. We are born again by faith in Christ, we are baptized by the Holy Spirit by faith, and we are baptized in water through faith in Christ.

LSB Acts 16:30-33 And after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your house.”
32 And they spoke the word of 1the Lord to him together with all who were in his household.
33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

Matthew 28:19–20 (LSB)
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to keep all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Two Main Effects (1262)
The immersion in water signifies Baptism's two main effects - purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.
https://www.catholicity.com/catechism/the_graces_of_baptism.html
https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/our-spiritual-birthday-baptism-restores-the-life-of-grace
https://thecatholicspirit.com/faith...damentals/spiritual-effects-benefits-baptism/
https://rfpa.org/blogs/news/baptism-now-saves-us-a-spiritual-cleansing

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Two Main Effects (1262)
The immersion in water signifies Baptism's two main effects - purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.
https://www.catholicity.com/catechism/the_graces_of_baptism.html
https://www.detroitcatholic.com/news/our-spiritual-birthday-baptism-restores-the-life-of-grace
https://thecatholicspirit.com/faith...damentals/spiritual-effects-benefits-baptism/
https://rfpa.org/blogs/news/baptism-now-saves-us-a-spiritual-cleansing

Catholics are not Christians. Whatever they believe is outside of this discussion. Please refrain from posting unnecessary links.

 

[Polar]

Catholics are not Christians. Whatever they believe is outside of this discussion. Please refrain from posting unnecessary links.

has someone made you a moderator?

there are Catholics who are believers in Christ

smh

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

[ has someone made you a moderator? there are Catholics who are believers in Christ]

Catholicism is an antichrist religion that offers a different Christ than the scriptures reveal. If there are Catholics that are truly born again but continue to be part of a dead church, are probably very weak in their beliefs. But if you could count them, how many are there, one, two, or three? Take a guess. 😁

By the way, as a former staunch Catholic, I kind of know what happens on the inside of this pernicious and destructive religion. 🥸

 

[Polar]

[ has someone made you a moderator? there are Catholics who are believers in Christ]

Catholicism is an antichrist religion that offers a different Christ than the scriptures reveal. If there are Catholics that are truly born again but continue to be part of a dead church, are probably very weak in their beliefs. But if you could count them, how many are there, one, two, or three? Take a guess. 😁

By the way, as a former staunch Catholic, I kind of know what happens on the inside of this pernicious and destructive religion. 🥸

well you are not telling me anything I do not know and I grew up in an area where there were many Catholics and my dad was Catholic until he converted, so...and a couple of my best friends were also Catholic

my point, was that you cannot broad brush every person and say they are not Christian

and you really cannot tell others what to post no matter how annoying you may find it....believe me, I would sometimes like to do the same

glad you left Catholicism tho