The three Hebrew letters on the Shroud of Turin

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#21
my husband is exhausted (been working like the proverbial dog, 16 hours a day...)
and is taking a day of rest, and sleeping in a little.

but now i want to clunk around so he'll wake up so i can show him this!
(i won't...but i'd like to. :) )

so cool. ♥


??

nah...better not:)
freshed brew coffee and a fan pointed toward the bedroom might do it:D
 
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psychomom

Guest
#22


??

nah...better not:)
freshed brew coffee and a fan pointed toward the bedroom might do it:D

hehehe :)

eggs and bacon did it, along with some croissants to make sammies. ;)

and he did love the article.
Mark's a really orderly, neat and tidy kinda guy,
a man after God's own heart in that way, I guess. ♥

his wife, though fairly scatter-brained, does try to be orderly, for his sake and for God's. :rolleyes:

thx for the link...it was a true blessing. :)
xoxo
 

Shilo

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2011
1,974
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#23
I have always thought the shroud to be authentic I have watched and read just about everything I have come across. There are ancient ways of doing things that we do not understand. I think it is wise to be careful about the shroud.
Deuteronomy 4 Only be careful,and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them fade from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them. 10 Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when he said to me, “Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children.” 11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice

The Lord did not want the body of Moses to be worshiped and that is why people do not know where his body is. Satan want to be able to use the body as a snare for people to draw them from God. Just something I am now thinking on.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#24
The Lord did not want the body of Moses to be worshiped and that is why people do not know where his body is. Satan want to be able to use the body as a snare for people to draw them from God. Just something I am now thinking on.
That's just what Mark was saying not 20 minutes ago. :)

Leave it to humankind to make an idol of anything left of the Lord...:rolleyes: .
It's hard to imagine He'd set it up like that, yeah?
Leave a trace of Himself, other than His Word and ourselves, and we'll build a little shrine for it and worship it. :(

We have a hard enough time with the temptation to glorify one another (teachers, etc.)!

No one but You, Lord Jesus. ♥


 
Dec 5, 2012
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#25
As I see it you guys have too much speculation and no proof. This is what hurts our faiths, people go straight to judgment instead of bracing what good can come of it. Is the shroud real I don't know, but if it is WAO. would I worship the shroud ABSOLUTELY NOT. Maybe the shroud being proof real would bring much more people to the church than you think. The problem is that people see this as a conspiracy, everything is a conspiracy. Have a little faith.

Ask yourself this:

Will this shroud affect my faith?
Will this shroud bring more people to God?
Who will win if people come to God? Men?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#27
Here's a good example of a catholic pseudo relic. The shroud of Turin is a HOAX, it can be dated to the 13th or 14th century. So I really don't care what hebrew letters are on it..


Source:


Shroud of Turin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I wish it were that simple, NewLuke. Scientific tests have many that show an earlier date, like pollen from 1800 years ago. Another problem is historical accuracy, known now but not in the middle ages. The article you quote shows a lot of this. And then there is that pesky fact that the image on the shroud was used as Jesus' face in paintings from about 600AD on. Forgery? Probably. Middle ages? I doubt it.

Besides, even if it is a middle ages painting of some kind, the use of Hebrew letters would tell us something interesting about the ideas of Old Testament in Middle Ages catholicism of that period.
 
Dec 5, 2012
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#28
Here's a good example of a catholic pseudo relic. The shroud of Turin is a HOAX, it can be dated to the 13th or 14th century. So I really don't care what hebrew letters are on it..


Source:


Shroud of Turin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I wonder how many christian relics are proven as "fake" by the world with an agenda to disproof religion?

I do not know if the shroud if turin is true or is false. I would like it to be real and have something of Jesus for me to see. Will it change my faith? absolutely not. Will I worship it? Absolutely not.

Why are people so eager to proof this to be false? What is in it for you? What do you gain be claiming this to be a false pseudo conspiracy? Are you helping the church of Jesus with this? [by church I mean all christians]
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#29
I wonder how many christian relics are proven as "fake" by the world with an agenda to disproof religion?

I do not know if the shroud if turin is true or is false. I would like it to be real and have something of Jesus for me to see. Will it change my faith? absolutely not. Will I worship it? Absolutely not.

Why are people so eager to proof this to be false? What is in it for you? What do you gain be claiming this to be a false pseudo conspiracy? Are you helping the church of Jesus with this? [by church I mean all christians]
In principle there's no such thing as 'christian relics,' there are just CATHOLIC relics. What's in it for YOU to believe the shroud is real, if you aren't planning on worshipping it anyway, as you claim.
What is in it for me? I think it's important people get to know Jesus as He REALLY is, first and foremost through God's Word, and not by worshipping some fony relic. We shouldn't bow down to any idol, especially if it claims to depict the Son of God. I think that IS important for the Church of Jesus Christ, but i guess that's something the 'church' of ROME has yet to learn, even after 500 years of reformation.
Talking about conspiricy theories, what is more of a conspiracy: trying to fool all of christendom by pushing some fake medieval relic as the genuine item, or trying to prove it's a fake?

John 8:31-32
31 (...) If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”</SPAN>
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
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#30
then there's this:

John 20
The Resurrection
1Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” 3So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb. 4Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, 7 and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus’a head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself. 8Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in, and he saw and believed; 9for as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead. 10Then the disciples went back to their homes.


i read that the custom was that the Master of the house placed his napkin down using a certain fold to indicate He was satisfied, and the servants could then eat.

do you know about that Ken?

if accurate, it adds a beauty to this passage.
i hope it's true.
love zone.
I was told of this about the napkin as well, but the meaning of the folded napkin was to say, I will return. :)
This is an interesting thread, and like you said zone, in ways, rather beautiful. :)

God bless
pickles
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#31
I was told of this about the napkin as well, but the meaning of the folded napkin was to say, I will return. :)
This is an interesting thread, and like you said zone, in ways, rather beautiful. :)

God bless
pickles
The 'napkin analogy' seems a bit far-fetched to me. The linen clothes were just left behind because they were of no use anymore. They were used to wrap Jesus' body in, and as such are a symbol of His death. But since Jesus vanquised death He could safely leave that symbol behind.
I often wonder what Jesus was wearing when He first appeared to the disciples though. We know that Mary Magdalene at first thought He was the gardiner, so maybe Jesus put on some of the cemetery keeper's clothes? Jesus is still the keeper of the people that 'sleep the eternal sleep,' so that's would make sense.


John 20: 11-16
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot. 13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?” “They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. 15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#32
The 'napkin analogy' seems a bit far-fetched to me. The linen clothes were just left behind because they were of no use anymore. They were used to wrap Jesus' body in, and as such are a symbol of His death. But since Jesus vanquised death He could safely leave that symbol behind.
I often wonder what Jesus was wearing when He first appeared to the disciples though. We know that Mary Magdalene at first thought He was the gardiner, so maybe Jesus put on some of the cemetery keeper's clothes? Jesus is still the keeper of the people that 'sleep the eternal sleep,' so that's would make sense.


John 20: 11-16
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot. 13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?” “They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. 15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
I had heard that gardeners used to work naked. If you look carefully at Matt., Mark, Luke, in Greek there is a linen garment mentioned before he is buried (sindon), not mentioned by John. But there are linen bandages found in the tomb (othonion) in Luke and John. The Greek words are different, so there may be one garment as yet unaccounted for. If so, then one must ask why the outline of the seams of that garment do not show up on the shroud, if it was authentic.
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#33
I had heard that gardeners used to work naked. If you look carefully at Matt., Mark, Luke, in Greek there is a linen garment mentioned before he is buried (sindon), not mentioned by John. But there are linen bandages found in the tomb (othonion) in Luke and John. The Greek words are different, so there may be one garment as yet unaccounted for. If so, then one must ask why the outline of the seams of that garment do not show up on the shroud, if it was authentic.
I don't think the jews would have accepted people working naked. So when Mary Magdelene thought Jesus was a gardiner, that MUST have been for some other reason than His supposed nakedness. So Jesus had the attire of a gardiner on; had He been clothed in a simple linen garment, Mary Magdelene wouldn't have thought He was a gardiner at all.

Funny how Rembrandt interpreted this passage from John in the same way:

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#34
The 'napkin analogy' seems a bit far-fetched to me. The linen clothes were just left behind because they were of no use anymore. They were used to wrap Jesus' body in, and as such are a symbol of His death. But since Jesus vanquised death He could safely leave that symbol behind.
ya Luke we kind of resolved that back here:

W.E. Nunnally, Ph.D.
Professor of Early Judaism and Christian Origins
Evangel University


http://www.isitinthebible.com/nt/napkin.htm < click

you and Ken are correct, according to D. Nunnally.
the other ideas are apparently [urban] myths.

I often wonder what Jesus was wearing when He first appeared to the disciples though. We know that Mary Magdalene at first thought He was the gardiner, so maybe Jesus put on some of the cemetery keeper's clothes? Jesus is still the keeper of the people that 'sleep the eternal sleep,' so that's would make sense.
John 20: 11-16
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus&#8217; body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot. 13 They asked her, &#8220;Woman, why are you crying?&#8221; &#8220;They have taken my Lord away,&#8221; she said, &#8220;and I don&#8217;t know where they have put him.&#8221; 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. 15 He asked her, &#8220;Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?&#8221;Thinking he was the gardener, she said, &#8220;Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.&#8221;16 Jesus said to her, &#8220;Mary.&#8221;She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, &#8220;Rabboni!&#8221; (which means &#8220;Teacher&#8221;).
interesting...hmmm:)
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#35
ya Luke we kind of resolved that back here:

W.E. Nunnally, Ph.D.
Professor of Early Judaism and Christian Origins
Evangel University

http://www.isitinthebible.com/nt/napkin.htm < click

you and Ken are correct, according to D. Nunnally.
the other ideas are apparently [urban] myths.



interesting...hmmm:)
Who's we?
I'm glad W.E. Nunnally Ph.D. agrees with me btw. ;)


Thanks btw. :)
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#36
Who's we?
I came up with that idea all by myself, but I'm glad W.E. Nunnally Ph.D. agrees with me. ;)

Thanks btw. :)
the "we" included myself and anyone else who had been speculating that the folded napkin indicated something signficant:)

lol....yes, i know Luke. you're an amazingly bright 16 yr old.

but Ken posted before you did dear. haha.
Dr Nunnally is prolly glad he agrees with you also:D

z
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#37
I wonder how many christian relics are proven as "fake" by the world with an agenda to disproof religion?

I do not know if the shroud if turin is true or is false. I would like it to be real and have something of Jesus for me to see. Will it change my faith? absolutely not. Will I worship it? Absolutely not.

Why are people so eager to proof this to be false? What is in it for you? What do you gain be claiming this to be a false pseudo conspiracy? Are you helping the church of Jesus with this? [by church I mean all christians]
i'm glad to hear you won't worship it Rock.
some ppl get carried away, don't you agree?

 
Dec 5, 2012
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#38
i'm glad to hear you won't worship it Rock.
some ppl get carried away, don't you agree?

I agree some get carried away but people see me praying the rosary and think "Mary Worshiper" with ought knowing. To say that Mary takes away from God is to say the Moon takes away from the Sun.

Interesting thread you got here, too bad not so many people care. I believe the mindset of "worship the shroud" is what most would think when they see the title to the thread.
 
Nov 29, 2012
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#39
the "we" included myself and anyone else who had been speculating that the folded napkin indicated something signficant:)

lol....yes, i know Luke. you're an amazingly bright 16 yr old.

but Ken posted before you did dear. haha.
Dr Nunnally is prolly glad he agrees with you also:D

z
There's no 'napkin' in the NIV, only in the KJV. So i guess that specific translation gave rise to the whole 'napkin myth.' Why would they want to leave a table napkin in Jesus'tomb anyway, it doesn't make any sense. :D