The tree of knowledge of good and evil

[Aaron56]

I don't really see what it has to do with angels besides that the angels were made to guard the way to the tree of life after the man and woman and serpent were cast out of the garden.

Before God created man everything he needed was already established and set in place. This is how a loving father prepares his estate for his heirs. This included the angels who would serve the House of God. By the time we get to Genesis 3, at least Satan's rebellion had occurred. This means evil was already in the earth. For man to properly judge evil, he would eventually have to know the difference between good and evil. God intended that man learn this by obeying and following him. Yet, Adam rebelled and ate the fruit he was not to eat.

 

[Aaron56]

As far as I know God made everything good originally and that Satan fell in the moment he lied to the woman, she fell in the moment she believed Satan and did eat and give to her husband, and he fell in the moment that he hearkened unto his wife and ate also. As for the angels, they are first mentioned after the fall in the garden and the casting out in order to guard the way to the tree of life lest man put forth his hand and eat also and live forever.

Satan fell like lightening to the earth where he intended to disrupt the plan of God. His nature "from the beginning" was of murder and deceit.

"He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."

I consider "the beginning" to be the beginning of creation.

 

[SonJudgment]

Before God created man everything he needed was already established and set in place. This is how a loving father prepares his estate for his heirs. This included the angels who would serve the House of God. By the time we get to Genesis 3, at least Satan's rebellion had occurred. This means evil was already in the earth. For man to properly judge evil, he would eventually have to know the difference between good and evil. God intended that man learn this by obeying and following him. Yet, Adam rebelled and ate the fruit he was not to eat.

Well in the chapter preceding it states clearly that God made everything good and that God gave them the charge not to eat from the tree, and thus commit evil. Therefore if the serpent had not lied and the woman had not believed the devil and ate and the man did not listen to her and eat also, there'd be no evil or even purpose really in eating of the fruit and thereby having evil enter the world. Since we know God told the truth then we can conclude if they simply had continued to obey God there'd be no evil, and thus the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is pointless to eat since evil would not exist. As for the angels then I guess one could argue they are birds, but I am not so sure they count as animals, so the first time they are explicitly mentioned is after the fall being made to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[SonJudgment]

Satan fell like lightening to the earth where he intended to disrupt the plan of God. His nature "from the beginning" was of murder and deceit.

"He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."

I consider "the beginning" to be the beginning of creation.

Well from the beginning indeed the first time we are introduced to Satan indeed he tells lies from the very start and is therefore the father of the lies. Every time Satan speaks in the Bible he is telling a lie. Indeed he is a murderer, from the moment he spoke the lies and committed the first sin he was doomed, he basically murderered himself and everyone that loves the lies and believes the old serpent will share in his doom.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

The serpent's issue was NOT that he denied the truth but perverted it and then suggested that woman disobey her Father. God said "Do not eat of the tree" the serpent told woman to "eat of the tree".

So you think the serpent told the woman that she would never die if she believed him? Yes or no

So if the serpent told the woman to eat of the tree? prove it.

Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Gen 3:1

That is not telling the woman to eat of the tree of knowledge.

So would you have told her that she could eat of every tree of the garden except but for the tree in the midst of the garden? Yes or no

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Gen 3:2-3

Where was the tree of life? In the midst of the garden.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Gen 3:4

Did they die in the day they ate of the tree? No.

For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Gen 3:5

Do you know the difference between good and evil? 1 Thess 5:21

Answer a couple questions for me, will you?
Is the serpent evil?
Did the serpent oppose God?

Yes. Will you.
No. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Gen 1:31
No. He didn't lie.

To be honest, your tone seems like guarded Satanism. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Prove what you say and then we will see whether you are honest.

By the time of Genesis 3, Satan had already rebelled.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: Matt 16:23
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: Mark 8:33

so when God says "Behold! Adam has become like one of us" there are only a few choices for who God is telling to behold this:

• He is just talking to Himself
• He is speaking to Woman
• He is speaking to the animals
• He is speaking to the angels

None of the above.

• And he wasn't talking to Satan, because Satan is the lie of man, who abode not in the truth.
• He wasn't talking to the son of God, that is if you believe the NT since in it is written in Luke 3:38 "Adam was the son of God"

So on what day did God create Satan? Why doesn't Genesis 1 make any mention of Satan being created?

So who was he talking to in Genesis 1:26 when Elohim said said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: Gen 1:26
Yes, it was the same one he was talking to in Genesis 3:22.

 

[Aaron56]

1. No. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Gen 1:31
2. No. He didn't lie.

For posterity: his answers to the questions
1. Is the serpent evil?
2. Did the serpent opposed God?

 

[Aaron56]

Well in the chapter preceding it states clearly that God made everything good and that God gave them the charge not to eat from the tree, and thus commit evil. Therefore if the serpent had not lied and the woman had not believed the devil and ate and the man did not listen to her and eat also, there'd be no evil or even purpose really in eating of the fruit and thereby having evil enter the world. Since we know God told the truth then we can conclude if they simply had continued to obey God there'd be no evil, and thus the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is pointless to eat since evil would not exist. As for the angels then I guess one could argue they are birds, but I am not so sure they count as animals, so the first time they are explicitly mentioned is after the fall being made to guard the way to the tree of life.

Except, since “the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth” we know God knew Adam and Eve would fall. Even their redemption was secured before they needed it.

 

[posthuman]

As far as I know God made everything good originally and that Satan fell in the moment he lied to the woman, she fell in the moment she believed Satan and did eat and give to her husband, and he fell in the moment that he hearkened unto his wife and ate also. As for the angels, they are first mentioned after the fall in the garden and the casting out in order to guard the way to the tree of life lest man put forth his hand and eat also and live forever.

we know from Job 38:7 the angels predate the creation of the world. they watched God do these things and rejoiced

Christ saw Satan fall to the ground like lightning. when did this occur? after he was already on the ground, when he murdered Woman?

i believe he fell in Genesis 1:1 - and that this is why the earth was formless and void, and covered with water - as it was again in the days of Noah, a judgement of sin. Ezekiel describes him walking among fiery stones before he fell - which are not in the Eden of Adam and his wife.

what did he have to gain by murdering Woman? we know his sin was pride, saying, he will be like The Most High - and that he was corrupted through the abundance of his traffic. abundance?
so did he deceive, corrupt and murder a third of the angels before he murdered Woman, or after?

i don't think putting the fall of Satan in Genesis 3 fits the rest of what we know about it. i think his actions in Genesis 3 make much more sense as vindictive, and jealous, having seen what God did making man he in wrath sought to destroy it, he himself having first been a federal head of the angels, being dethroned and cast out, and then seeing a new biogical Eden with man and woman, a new federal head of an entirely new kind of living soul.

 

[posthuman]

Well in the chapter preceding it states clearly that God made everything good and that God gave them the charge not to eat from the tree, and thus commit evil.

it doesn't mention the creation of angels, but we know from Job the angels already existed, and from Hebrews and other places they are created beings. only God is uncreated and He made all things.

so Genesis 1-3 is not an account of everything that exists - it is the generation of Adam, how mankind was created and what happened to us.

 

[posthuman]

the first time they are explicitly mentioned is after the fall being made to guard the way to the tree of life.

it doesn't say they were created to keep that way. it says two of them were set there.

 

[posthuman]

Did they die in the day they ate of the tree? No.

yes.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

yes.

No they didn't, unless you disregard what is defined as a day by the scriptures in Genesis 1.

"...and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:" Gen 1:14

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:31

This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Gen 5:1-3

But then again, I understand that you must be bout your father's business. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God neither can it be because it is at enmity with God. Jesus said to his disciples, are there not 12 hours in a day? So you would say what?, no Lord there are a 1,000 years in a day,

 

[UnoiAmarah]

For posterity: his answers to the questions
1. Is the serpent evil?
2. Did the serpent opposed God?

For posterity, your answer to the reason for the hope in you.

...

 

[Aaron56]

For posterity, your answer to the reason for the hope in you.

So, is the serpent Satan as told here:

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Next question, is Satan or the serpent evil and did he deceive Eve as is written here?;

"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

 

[Magenta]

No they didn't, unless you disregard what is defined as a day

Being a thousand years is like a day to God? And Adam dying before the age of 1,000?

 

[posthuman]

No they didn't, unless you disregard what is defined as a day by the scriptures in Genesis 1.

not at all. you just need God's definition of death, instead of a merely atheistic, human one.

were you dead when Christ saved you?
if you are in Christ, have you died now?
what does scripture say?

 

[posthuman]

the phrase in Hebrew is literally "dying, you shall die" not "you will surely die" - the latter is an interpretive approximation, not the actual translation.

it implies death enters through sin and begins a process of taking over the whole person. the dying is immediate: the eventual state of complete death is an inevitability and only a matter of time until it is fully revealed.

to God, Who is not constrained by time, what is the difference? He declares what is not yet as though it already is.

He stoops to speak in ways we can scarcely comprehend

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Being a thousand years is like a day to God? And Adam dying before the age of 1,000?

Don't be like Terrence Howard and say 1 x 1 = 2.

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. Gen 5:5

• But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

If one day with the LORD is as 1,000 years, then considering that it is written that the LORD said that the number of days of a man's life would be 120 years, then if each days is as a 1,000 years, then a 120 years with the LORD would be (365 days x 1,000 x 120) or 43,800,00 years to a man.

• But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8

So 43,800,000 years to a man would be 43,800 days to the LORD. (43,800,00 / 1000) So if 43,800 days to the LORD, how many years would that be to man. (Divide 43,800 by the 365) It is a 120 years.

So if one day is with the LORD as a 1,000 years, then the evening and morning must be 1,000 years.

 

[SonJudgment]

Except, since “the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth” we know God knew Adam and Eve would fall. Even their redemption was secured before they needed it.

Indeed, God knows everything and God alone is perfect, and had a plan even from beginning. God does not tempt, he made them good originally and there was no evil, so then it's even more their fault for not believing in God since he made them good and told them exactly the truth of what to do and what the consequences would be. Evil and death and pain and sorrow and fear and all that stuff entered the world when they committed evil. If they had not committed evil, then the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is just pointless since there'd be no evil, there is no real reason to eat the fruit or justification in eating the fruit.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

not at all. you just need God's definition of death, instead of a merely atheistic, human one.

were you dead when Christ saved you?
if you are in Christ, have you died now?
what does scripture say?

Death is the permanent cessation of life.

Jesus said whoever was alive and believed in him would never die. Do you believe him?

"he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25

The living know they will die, the dead know not anything.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24
They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. John 8:27