The tree of knowledge of good and evil

[posthuman]

God knows all questions:
I agree that God did not ask questions because the answers were unknown.
Of course he knew, I completely agree.
So, as you implied, we have to ask ourselves, "Why DID God ask the question?"


Exegesis - Order Of Operations
But in sorting out a Bible question, we still need to be careful of one more thing - the ORDER OF OPERATIONS for our exegesis.

1.) When we analyze what scripture means to "those hearing the question", we need to make sure we are not analyzing ourselves, the modern readers, but rather the historical audience.
2.) So the first ORDER OF OPERATIONS is to determine the historical audience, and think about what the question meant to THEM.
(In this case it would be Adam and Cain.)
3.) Then, after understanding the question in historical context, we then take that understanding of the passage, and begin to apply that understanding to ourselves, as the modern reader.
4.) That's the rational order of operations for applying Bible principles to ourselves, as modern readers.

This may have been exactly what you meant.
But since this issue is confusing to people in a postmodern culture, I wanted to break it down a bit.



God Bless Brother.
Hope you have a great weekend.

.

Yes, so with Adam, there is an implication that this was a regular time and place that he met with God. where was he? not with God, as he should be.

and with Cain - where is your brother?
Cain is being inquired of about the first physically dead human, an human who had God's approval. Abel's body was probably buried - but where was Abel? could physical death hide a man from God?

there is more - but in the immediate context to those the questions were directed to, i think there are very important spiritual implications to what they are being asked.

perhaps even more importantly, both are being given opportunity to confess. Adam is not cursed - he answered God well. Cain is cursed - he answered God wickedly.

we see the same parallel with God's question to Woman, and Cain: He asks what is it they have done? Woman confesses, and is not cursed. Cain answers vainly, not confessing, and is cursed.

 

[posthuman]

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. Gen 3:8-10

So hearing the voice of the LORD is indicative of being spiritually dead or seperated from God?

it isn't the hearing lol.

why was Adam afraid?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Not Physical Separation, but Relational Separation:

1.) Adam wasn't separated physically, he was separated by relationship... the perfection of the relationship was broken by sin.

So is your relationship broken if your child disobeys you?

If the perfection of the relationship was broken then it wasn't a perfect relationship. Sin is the transgression of the law of truth, maybe you have a greater insight on how an eternal being would expect perfection from a created being.

So did the eternal God create the man eternal and if an eternal being could not create an eternal being, then could the created man be perfect if only the eternal one is perfect.

Maybe the perfection of the relationship was broken when the man created in the image of and after the likeness of his Creator believed that a serpent could talk. And if the LORD did put the words in the serpents mouth, were they lies?

 

[posthuman]

Maybe the perfection of the relationship was broken when the man created in the image of and after the likeness of his Creator believed that a serpent could talk. And if the LORD did put the words in the serpents mouth, were they lies?

Huh?

do you think the serpent was not actually speaking? that Woman was just hallucinating? or lying about what had happened?

do you think it was the LORD deceiving her?

 

[maxwel]

So is your relationship broken if your child disobeys you?

If the perfection of the relationship was broken then it wasn't a perfect relationship. Sin is the transgression of the law of truth, maybe you have a greater insight on how an eternal being would expect perfection from a created being.

So did the eternal God create the man eternal and if an eternal being could not create an eternal being, then could the created man be perfect if only the eternal one is perfect.

Maybe the perfection of the relationship was broken when the man created in the image of and after the likeness of his Creator believed that a serpent could talk. And if the LORD did put the words in the serpents mouth, were they lies?

Fall of Adam:

1.) It has been essential, orthodox, and broadly accepted Christian doctrine, for 2 millennia, that Adam "fell" in a spiritual sense, due to sin, and lost his perfect fellowship with God.

2.) There are many many verses to show and explain this, in many different ways.
(I even quoted a few, which you ignored.)

3.) Are you a Christian?

.

 

[posthuman]

Fall of Adam:

1.) It has been essential, orthodox, and broadly accepted Christian doctrine, for 2 millennia, that Adam "fell" in a spiritual sense, due to sin, and lost his perfect fellowship with God.
.

it's probably more accurate to say Woman fell, then Adam dove in after her.
he wasn't deceived - he willingly and knowingly chose to sin, as God put it, listening to the voice of his wife.

Adam is a foreshadow of Christ; Romans 5:13 tells us this explicitly, and part of that type is that Adam laid down his life for his betrothed, as Christ did also for our sake - Christ took our sin upon Himself and bore it, to save us. we should understand that some of the same self-sacrificial love was part of Adam's motive.

 

[Cameron143]

it's probably more accurate to say Woman fell, then Adam dove in after her.
he wasn't deceived - he willingly and knowingly chose to sin, as God put it, listening to the voice of his wife.

Adam is a foreshadow of Christ; Romans 5:13 tells us this explicitly, and part of that type is that Adam laid down his life for his betrothed, as Christ did also for our sake - Christ took our sin upon Himself and bore it, to save us. we should understand that some of the same self-sacrificial love was part of Adam's motive.

In Romans 5, Adam is contrasted with Christ, not similarly compared. Adam wasn't able to save his wife. Christ is able to do so. How does this make him a type of Christ?

 

[Webers.Home]

.

So is your relationship broken if your child disobeys you?

God's association with Adam wasn't paternal. The man was created, i.e.
Adam was the result of God's handiwork rather than His genes.
_

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

The forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil; imparted the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve as they lost their innocence.
IMO this means: Those who haven't gotten old enough to know right from wrong and those who are handicapped remain innocent, like the angels, weren't able to commit any sins and are therefore free from judgment.

Nope - the "Tree" itself imparted NOTHING. What made the difference was that God said: DON'T EAT OF IT"!! But they tossed God under the bus, sided with satan, and ate from it anyway.

 

[posthuman]

In Romans 5, Adam is contrasted with Christ, not similarly compared. Adam wasn't able to save his wife. Christ is able to do so. How does this make him a type of Christ?

Adam, the person, is specifically called a type of Christ:

Romans 5:14-15​

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift [is] not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.​

​

the offense is contrasted with the gift, but it is also compared - how that one action resulted in a consequence for many.

Christ is called the second Adam also; the typology of Christ in Adam is more than just their federal headship.

what was Adam thinking? why did he do this?

he wasn't stupid and he wasn't deceived. he knew it was sin, and he knew he would die if he did it. he knew his wife was dying, and she said something to him - and what he did, he did because of her - because God had given her to him, and because he listened to her voice.

he joined her in death. why?
what were his choices, for how he could have reacted, when he found her, spiritually and physically dying, with the fruit in her hand?

it is both like Christ willingly humbling and sacrificing Himself, and not like this.

 

[posthuman]

.


God's association with Adam wasn't paternal. The man was created, i.e.
Adam was the result of God's handiwork rather than His genes.
_

Ahem

Luke 3:38​

... the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.​

 

[Cameron143]

Adam, the person, is specifically called a type of Christ:

Romans 5:14-15​

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift [is] not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.​

​

the offense is contrasted with the gift, but it is also compared - how that one action resulted in a consequence for many.

Christ is called the second Adam also; the typology of Christ in Adam is more than just their federal headship.

what was Adam thinking? why did he do this?

he wasn't stupid and he wasn't deceived. he knew it was sin, and he knew he would die if he did it. he knew his wife was dying, and she said something to him - and what he did, he did because of her - because God had given her to him, and because he listened to her voice.

he joined her in death. why?
what were his choices, for how he could have reacted, when he found her, spiritually and physically dying, with the fruit in her hand?

it is both like Christ willingly humbling and sacrificing Himself, and not like this.

That's all assumed. Christ did not join us in our sin. He became sin for us to deliver us. Adam delivers no one.
And Adam was far from dumb. What would make him believe he could save his wife? And how is breaking covenant and sinning a means to salvation?
There are some parallels that can be drawn, but not every comparison is valid or accurate.

 

[posthuman]

That's all assumed. Christ did not join us in our sin. He became sin for us to deliver us. Adam delivers no one.
And Adam was far from dumb. What would make him believe he could save his wife? And how is breaking covenant and sinning a means to salvation?
There are some parallels that can be drawn, but not every comparison is valid or accurate.

It's not assumed Adam is a type of Christ, or that he was undecieved, or that what he did, he did because he listened to his wife, and because God had given her to him, and she had eaten - the Bible explicitly says so.

did he think he could save her? by dying with her? i doubt it.
maybe he decided he would rather die with her than live without her. you see this in humans who love each other.
or maybe he thought God might have mercy on her if it was both of them, not just him - Adam was no stranger to God, does that seem like something he would think about how God would act?

but why didn't they eat from the tree of Life? why did they spend who knows how long gathering fig leaves and sewing tunics out of them? God prevented them from doing so in the future, because it would be a disaster if they did - but who prevented them from doing it between the time sin entered them and they spoke with God?

whose idea were the fig leaves, and why?

 

[Cameron143]

It's not assumed Adam is a type of Christ, or that he was undecieved, or that what he did, he did because he listened to his wife, and because God had given her to him, and she had eaten - the Bible explicitly says so.

did he think he could save her? by dying with her? i doubt it.
maybe he decided he would rather die with her than live without her. you see this in humans who love each other.
or maybe he thought God might have mercy on her if it was both of them, not just him - Adam was no stranger to God, does that seem like something he would think about how God would act?

but why didn't they eat from the tree of Life? why did they spend who knows how long gathering fig leaves and sewing tunics out of them? God prevented them from doing so in the future, because it would be a disaster if they did - but who prevented them from doing it between the time sin entered them and they spoke with God?

whose idea were the fig leaves, and why?

I wasn't arguing against the things clearly stated, only against what is not. I assented that there were parallels that could be drawn. But Adam could not give his life as a ransom. And there's no reason to believe he thought he could. He is not a type of Christ as Savior. Otherwise, no need for blood for the remission of sins.

 

[Magenta]

Huh?

do you think the serpent was not actually speaking? that Woman was just hallucinating? or lying about what had happened?

do you think it was the LORD deceiving her?

A donkey actually spoke. We have no reason to think God could not make the stones rise up and
testify of Him if people refuse to. However, as to what anyone besides Eve could have heard, we
are not told. We can say that Adam was right there with her when the serpent spoke to her, but
he may have only heard hissing, the same as those with Paul on the road to Damascus heard
a sound, but not the fact that words were being spoken... it was just an unintelligible sound.

 

[posthuman]

I wasn't arguing against the things clearly stated, only against what is not. I assented that there were parallels that could be drawn. But Adam could not give his life as a ransom. And there's no reason to believe he thought he could. He is not a type of Christ as Savior. Otherwise, no need for blood for the remission of sins.

i think - and this is an opinion - it was more about not leaving her to die alone and less about him thinking he could save her through sin. as though he loved her more than God, in that decision, which is something Christ talks about, you know? to be worthy of Him we must love Him more.

Jesus knows the parallel - it is because of Adam and what happened in the garden He was there in Israel to save us, saying those things.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

this does not make Satan not a liar.

it is as i said, as Christ said, "there is no truth in him, when he lies he speaks his native language"

whenever you find your theogy agreeing with Satan, you should reevaluate your theology.

You can create a huge lie that’s even a deception , if you use bits of truth that aren’t in context to disguise it is the thing if you remove a true statement from its context or change its context you make it a lie also or at the least an omital of vital information action regarding it

While you look up Genesis 3:3, here is the translation of "in the day", same
word in Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 5:2, so the measure of the day is the same.

View attachment 264975

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,

and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:11, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there we’re two trees one the tree of life that gives man life

the other the tree of good and evil knowledge that brings man death.

In the beginning they sinned and we’re cast out of Eden but the gospel has come to return then into it

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God put Adam and Eve in Eden then t he sinned and we’re cast out Jesus came to redeem and repair that broken relationship and bring man home to God from death to life

The gospel is the tree of life

 

[Cameron143]

i think - and this is an opinion - it was more about not leaving her to die alone and less about him thinking he could save her through sin. as though he loved her more than God, in that decision, which is something Christ talks about, you know? to be worthy of Him we must love Him more.

Jesus knows the parallel - it is because of Adam and what happened in the garden He was there in Israel to save us, saying those things.

This is certainly a plausible explanation, and Adam in choosing to sin certainly preferred the creature above the Creator.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A donkey actually spoke. We have no reason to think God could not make the stones rise up and
testify of Him if people refuse to. However, as to what anyone besides Eve could have heard, we
are not told. We can say that Adam was right there with her when the serpent spoke to her, but
he may have only heard hissing, the same as those with Paul on the road to Damascus heard
a sound, but not the fact that words were being spoken... it was just an unintelligible sound.

“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9‬ ‭KJV‬

“And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He was a murderer from the beginning, “

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;…… Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭28:13-17‬ ‭

 

[posthuman]

So hearing the voice of the LORD is indicative of being spiritually dead or seperated from God?

no, not hearing the LORD - that is absurd. Adam had walked and talked with God all his life.
sinning is indicative of this, of being dead, separated, ashamed, afraid.

why was Adam afraid? what was he afraid of?

he knew he was naked, and nakedness and shame are conjoined. he was ashamed, and his shame could not be hidden. ashamed why? because he had sin. that is the uniting factor: if you have nothing to be ashamed of, you don't care if you are naked, that is, that nothing about you is hidden.