Seems you are attributing evil to God. It was man's choice.
The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, why was it created and placed on earth?
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Then why is it controversial about Tree of Life being the source of immortality?You are born in/after Adam. If you don't have the potential to live ever after
by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ, you are lost.
Adam would have received the same benefit we do if he had chosen wisely.
He failed the test.
God did not make Adam sin.
I did not say Adam was created to be immortal by his own strength.
Nothing, absolutely nothing I have said even hinted at such a thing
Is the second law of thermodynamics evil? Did Adam choose that? This universe is NOT a "closed" system, God is actively and incessantly maintaining it, believe it or not.
i believe entropy began with Genesis 3:17 -- 'cursed is the ground for your sake'
i don't have a reason to believe God's initial 'very good' creation in which there was no sin was saturated in death and decay, but that the 'dying you shall die' factor that permeates now all creation is a result of sin. that is what Romans 8:20-25 speaks of, the futility to which all of creation was subjected to in hope of the revealing of the sons of God, the redemption of our bodies and restoration of all things.
God did not say 'dust thou art, and to dust you shall return' until after sin entered the world. to believe otherwise seems to me to be placing all of creation under the wages of sin when there was yet no sin, to wit, the lie of Exodus 17:3 - that God had brought all living things into life only to destroy them.
I disagree. Entropy is not Satanic. What began with Genesis 3:17 is the NET INCREASE of entropy, as the connection with the Tree of Life was cut off. Garden of Eden was like an intersection of heaven and earth, it was God's laboratory. The essence of resurrection is a transformation from corruptible earthly body into a glorified heavenly body, as Paul explained in 1 Cor. 15. Was that a fix after the fall? Or was it the ORIGINAL design since the beginning? Just think about the metamorphosis from a caterpillar to a cocoon then a butterfly, there's the model for our life, death and resurrection, or from a seed to its sprout. as Paul put it. Although men were formed of dust, God never wanted men to be dust forever, that was just a transient stage, and that's the cocoon the butterfly left behind.
Didn't say entropy is satanic.
It would be God's judgment, and God's judgement is good, just, and holy.
.
• Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and,
while he slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot.
And the Lord God fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a
woman;
If men are willing to sell their souls in order to obtain the girl of their
dreams, then it's probably not too much for them to sell a rib.
Anyhoo:
The Hebrew word translated "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22
contains the only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's
translated with an English word representing a skeletal bone. In the other
twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how tsela' should be
translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from Adam
included some of his flesh; and seeing as how the life of the flesh is in the
blood (Lev 17:11) then I think it's safe to assume that the flesh God took
from Adam's body to construct the woman contained some of his blood too
so that the flesh was living flesh instead of dead.
In other words: we can accept "rib" if we allow it a description similar to a
barbecued rib; a serving that contains not bone alone rather, bone, blood,
and meat.
But the most important thing to note in that passage is that Eve wasn't
created directly from the soil as Adam was, viz: she wasn't a discreet
creation, i.e. women aren't a unique specie.
Being as Eve was created from Adam's flesh, blood, and bones, then the
flesh, blood, and bones of her body were reproductions of his flesh, blood,
and bones. Therefore any and all progeny produced by Eve's body, whether
virgin-conceived or normally conceived, would consist of Adam's body, i.e.
they would be his progeny just as much as Eve's if any part of her body was
in any way at all involved in the conception.
_
I do wonder if we are made from Adam's appendix, often marveling at being regarded as supplementary material that has no apparent purpose other than generating bacteria.
.
I didn't start to die until right around 32 years. Up till then I was youthful,
strong, agile, and fully functioning, Then one morning while shaving I
noticed my bushy hair was beginning to thin and the skin on my face and
around my eyes was beginning to sag. And then around 34 I began seeing
birds with four wings due to astigmatism.
Those conditions were quite a wake-up call as I realized my youth was over
and I had begun to age. Today, at 78, the face I had at 32 is gone. I still have
some hair, but what's left is all gray. My eyes have required cataract surgery,
both my knee joints have been replaced with metal devices; and I am no longer
strong, agile, and fully functioning.
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw grasses spout. He saw them grow to maturity, bloom with
flowers, and produce seeds. He watched as they withered, became dry and
brittle, and then dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably
confident that Adam was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death
and fully understood that if he went ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit
that his body would lose its perpetual youth and end up no more permanent
than grass.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was
denied access to it.
(The tree of life can stop the aging process, but to my knowledge cannot
reverse it. So then were I allowed to eat the good fruit, I'd be stuck at 78.
The best time to eat the fruit is while young so you stay young instead of
staying old.)
Adam was supposed to die on the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit and
he did; only in a natural way-- subtly and not readily observed rather than
instantly. The thing is: mortality is a lingering, walking death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character The Terminator-- mortality feels neither
pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until you are dead.
"A voice said: Shout! I asked: What should I shout? Shout that people are
like the grass that dies away. Their beauty fades as quickly as the beauty of
flowers in a field. The grass withers, and the flowers fade beneath the breath
of The Lord. And so it is with people. The grass withers, and the flowers
fade, but the word of our God stands forever." (Isa 40:6-8)
_
Carry_Your_Nampost: 4845953 said:
I didn't start to die until right around 32 years. Up till then I was youthful,
strong, agile, and fully functioning, Then one morning while shaving I
noticed my bushy hair was beginning to thin and the skin on my face and
around my eyes was beginning to sag. And then around 34 I began seeing
birds with four wings due to astigmatism.
Those conditions were quite a wake-up call as I realized my youth was over
and I had begun to age. Today, at 78, the face I had at 32 is gone. I still have
some hair, but what's left is all gray. My eyes have required cataract surgery,
both my knee joints have been replaced with metal devices; and I am no longer
strong, agile, and fully functioning.
Gen 2:15-17 is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
instant he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
Adam saw grasses spout. He saw them grow to maturity, bloom with
flowers, and produce seeds. He watched as they withered, became dry and
brittle, and then dissolve into nothing. So I think we can be reasonably
confident that Adam was up to speed on at least the natural aspects of death
and fully understood that if he went ahead and tasted the forbidden fruit
that his body would lose its perpetual youth and end up no more permanent
than grass.
In other words; had Adam not eaten of the forbidden tree, he would've
remained in perfect health but the very day that he tasted its fruit, his body
became infected with mortality, i.e. he lost perpetual youth and began to
age; a condition easily remedied by the tree of life but alas, Adam was
denied access to it.
(The tree of life can stop the aging process, but to my knowledge cannot
reverse it. So then were I allowed to eat the good fruit, I'd be stuck at 78.
The best time to eat the fruit is while young so you stay young instead of
staying old.)
Adam was supposed to die on the very day he tasted the forbidden fruit and
he did; only in a natural way-- subtly and not readily observed rather than
instantly. The thing is: mortality is a lingering, walking death rather than
sudden death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold
Swarzenegger's movie character The Terminator-- mortality feels neither
pain nor pity, nor remorse nor fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be
bargained with, and it absolutely will not stop-- ever! --until you are dead.
"A voice said: Shout! I asked: What should I shout? Shout that people are
like the grass that dies away. Their beauty fades as quickly as the beauty of
flowers in a field. The grass withers, and the flowers fade beneath the breath
of The Lord. And so it is with people. The grass withers, and the flowers
fade, but the word of our God stands forever." (Isa 40:6-8)
_
Why would the model for sinless Adam's - and all the other sinless animal's souls - be death?
God is life, and death comes through sin, not through God.
It makes sense once sin is in the world, but beforehand, it doesn't.
The tree of good and evil was placed in the garden so that love in it's TRUE sense could exist in this world. True love is a choice and if God had not placed the tree there Adam and Eve could not have chosen to love God, that decision would have already have been pre decided for them. God spent time with Adam and Eve and showed them his love for them. Adam and Eve had the decision of choosing to love God and obey him because of this, or choosing not to.
No, it’s just a basic mechanism of the cosmos. Doesn’t have anything to do with God’s judgement.
God created the cosmos.
He called it "very good" in its initial state.
if God considers death and decay to be "very good" why does God call it the wages of sin and the last enemy?
why does the flesh of Christ God in the flesh in Whom there is no sin see no decay/corruption?
meaningless coincidence?
or directly connected to having no sin?
why would God subject Adam in whom is no sin to death the wages of sin? ((before sin entered the world through one man))?
is God just?
or is God evil?
what is your opinion, did God bring every living soul into existence in order to destroy it ((re; Exodus 17; "the lie" of Satan))?
or is God willing that none should perish?
you have a very serious theological question to answer.
is God omnibenevolent or is God malevolent, unjust, wicked and capricious?
please se aside everything that has been preached at you ((mankind is so, so fallible & vain))
and please answer that question according to THE TRUTH as you know Him.
is death equivalent to life? does "very good" necessarily include unjust death of the innocent?
was sinless Jesus Christ unjustly subject to corruption/wages-of-sin?
may all things flow from Him in your understanding, apart from any and all vanity.
that you may know THE TRUTH and that He may set you free
A test. Pure and simple. And earth is where humans would reside. It is the only planet which is perfectly suited for life.
That's the conventional interpretation which you'd hear from every pastor and every seminary, but I think Adam made a genuine mistake first, which Satan took advantage of and lead Eve to sin, and eventually it led him to sin. You see, when Satan asked Eve if God really said you shall not eat of the tree, Eve answered that not only can you not eat it, don't even touch it. God never said "you can't even touch it", the only possibility is that Adam added this rule, a man made doctrine. Eve got wrong theology from Adam. Although it's made out of good intention, it paves the road to hell. In this case, it gave Satan an opportunity to challenge God's authority and deceive Eve.
I'm not gonna answer that. The answer you seek lies in John 9:1-3 -
"As Jesus passed by, He saw a man who had been blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him."
was it God's "very good" intention from the creation that man be blind?
was Jesus Christ "blind" ?
you're going to answer, whether to me or not doesn't matter.
you will answer to Him who makes all things.
did He create death, or life?
is He good, or is He capricious and evil?
You made all these accusations, not me. You're either playing dumb or real dumb. Disciples were thinking what we would be usually thinking - KARMA. That's what Job's three snarky friends were bitching about at his pity party, and that's also what you said earlier, that it's "God's judgement". How did Jesus respond? What you meant for evil, God uses it for good. He restored the man's sight, and later the man was brought to the pharisees, the cultural elites. How did he testify? "I was blind, now I see!"
I would say it had to do with the parable of the lost son. Adam and Eve were interested in leaving the tree of life (aka Jesus) and going out on their own.
So why were there talking serpents and trees to create chaos in this world. I have no idea, but it was planned. We know that bc God knows everything. But even though he knows everything it doesn't mean he likes it. Accordingly the parable of the wheat, where both the weeds and the harvest must grow together show God's rationale for allowing the wicked in the world.
In my opinion eating from the tree of knowledge was right at the time where Satan "fell from heaven" with his fallen angels. It was also the fall of man. In fact it's what started this war.
One of my talents I've been bless with is artistic ability and my favorite classes was art so, I thought I did very well on one of the assigned projects, clay sculpting. It was the bust of a horse and to me it looked beautiful! I couldn't wait to see it after it came out of the kiln, forever preserved to sit on my shelf as soon as I could get it home since I didn't expect I could form it so perfectly. Days passed as I waited on the promise the instructor would place the finished pieces into the kiln and return them to their creator but, when too many days passed without word of mine, I approached him as to the delay. And to my devastation, he merely shrugged it off saying, "Oh, it exploded in the kiln. It hadn't been adequately hollowed out," or something to that effect. I still find myself sighing about the loss of it, even though I suppose I should simply try it again someday but, it was my very first piece and... well, I realize every event in life is an opportunity to learn one lesson or another and, I believe this anecdote is somehow tied very closely to the answer to this very question.
Not that God is an inexperienced student in creating clay figures, He did so and gave them life no less, and is able to preserve them forever but, somehow or for some reason, left the hollowing out to each student personally before He'll place us all in the kiln. However, I don't know what the kiln is or will be. Perhaps death, IDK, but have you ever considered whether you've 'hollowed yourself out' enough to trust Him in or through it?
Not that God is an inexperienced student in creating clay figures, He did so and gave them life no less, and is able to preserve them forever but, somehow or for some reason, left the hollowing out to each student personally before He'll place us all in the kiln. However, I don't know what the kiln is or will be. Perhaps death, IDK, but have you ever considered whether you've 'hollowed yourself out' enough to trust Him in or through it?