The truth about Muhammad "Feedback appreciated"

[TheLearner]

This is hearsay.You'd better read what's written in the book yourself.

God said that there is only one true God in the world, but he never said that there is only one book about the true God.

• Torah – “We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers,” (Surah 2:87).
• Psalms – “We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms,” (Surah 4:163).
• Gospel – “It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong),” (Surah 3:3).
  Also, “And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah,” (Surah 5:46).
• “Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers,” (Surah 6:34).
• “The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all,” (Surah 6:115).
• “For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity,” (Surah 10:64).

https://carm.org/islam/the-quran-says-the-bible-is-not-corrupt/

 

[TheLearner]

O community of Muslims, how is it that you seek wisdom from the people of the book? Your book, brought down upon his prophet—blessings and peace of God upon him—is the latest report about God. You read a book that has not been distorted, but the people of the book, as God related to you, exchanged that which God wrote, changing the book with their hands (Sahih Muslim).

Sura 3:78: And there is indeed a group among them who twist their tongues with the book, that you may suppose it to be from the book. But it is not from the book. And they say, “It is from God,” though it is not from God. And they knowingly speak a lie against God.
Sura 4:46: Among those who are Jews are those who distort the meaning of the word, and say, “We hear and disobey,” and “Hear, as one who hears not!” and “Attend to us!” twisting their tongues and disparaging religion. And had they said, “We hear and obey” and “Listen” and “Regard us,” it would have been better for them and more proper. But God cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.

Quran 5:13-15:

Then for their breaking of their covenant, we cursed them and hardened their hearts. They distort the meaning of the word, and have forgotten part of that whereof they were reminded. Thou wilt not cease to discover their treachery, from all save a few of them. So pardon them, and forbear. Truly God loves the virtuous. And with those who say, “We are Christians,” We made a covenant. Then they forgot part of that whereof they were reminded. So we stirred up enmity and hatred among them, till the day of resurrection. God will inform them of what they used to do. O people of the book! Our messenger has come unto you, making clear to you much of what you once hid of the book, and pardoning much. There has come unto you, from God, a light and a clear book.​

Sura 2:79:

So woe unto those who write the book with their hands, then say, “This is from God,” that they may sell it for a paltry price. So woe unto them for what their hands have written and woe unto them for what they earn.​

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/o...-teach-that-the-bible-was-corrupted-over-time

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

. Maybe the origins of Christianity come from the Arabs as much as the Jews

Maybe you should be thankful to the Arabs

Yeah, no, it simply didn't happen that way. And no, we don't need to thank Arabs, the lies in their religion have sent many to hell and are continuing to do so today. Islam is a false religion, and its adherents are lost and need to be set free.

 

[TheLearner]

https://www.catholic.com/audio/cot/answering-a-muslim-apologist
Best: https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/bible_authentic1.htm
https://www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/corruption-of-the-bible-in-the-quran.html
https://mbcpathway.com/2016/06/27/responding-to-islam-has-the-gospel-been-corrupted/
https://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/q2_77-79.htm
https://equip.sbts.edu/article/why-muslims-should-advocate-biblical-inerrancy/
unsure of this one: https://blog.fussilat.com/does-the-quran-say-the-torah-and-injil-are-uncorrupted/
https://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/01/does-quran-claim-that-bible-has-been.html

Sura 5 titled “The Gospel of Jesus: Guidance and Light,” you will read the following:*

[5:46] And in their footsteps We sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and conformation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. [5:47] Let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah has revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. [Emphasis mine.]
https://www.str.org/w/if-the-quran-is-true-then-it-s-false

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Meanwhile, if you desecrated a mosque or their revered so-called holy book in any way, they would have your head .

Quite literally!!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Talking about the Qur'an can only be talked about if two parties are willing to talk about it.

But to talk about it, you have to learn it or know it.

The people talking about it don't even know it haven't read it. Or haven't spent anytime with Arabs, who tell you what it means.

So how can we talk about if there not willing to learn it.

Not going to happen sorry

No I don't have to know it or read it to know it's false doctrine, same the JWs and Mormons. They try the same tactics. No, I don't need to know or read your "holy book" to know it's false doctrine, it's a lie from hell. That's the end of the convo.

 

[TheLearner]

This is true and one of the least relevant things at all when looking into Islam. We want to go to the text they use to find out what is taught, and it's horrible, degenerate, and just about everything that God has told us not to be. This doesn't make "all Muslims" bad, in fact the vast majority have no clue how filthy Mohammed was, nor that allah is in fact satan of the Bible. It's a wicked system created by a wicked group of men. It doesn't matter how great any individual acts, that can never change the pure evil Islam is at it's core.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/137441e https://www.islamicity.org/77304/unveiling-the-deceiver-9-startling-facts-about-satan/
https://files.secure.website/wscfus/10348600/8315257/is-allah-a-demon-2-the-proof.pdf
https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateReligion/comments/oopz79 https://files.secure.website/wscfus/10348600/8315257/is-allah-a-demon-2-the-proof.pdf

 

[TheLearner]

Talking about the Qur'an can only be talked about if two parties are willing to talk about it.

But to talk about it, you have to learn it or know it.

The people talking about it don't even know it haven't read it. Or haven't spent anytime with Arabs, who tell you what it means.

So how can we talk about if there not willing to learn it.

Not going to happen sorry

I have the blessing of Dearborn MI and I taught in those schools and in the local Community Colleges there too.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

And additionally Magenta, this is exactly why i'm not a big fan of David either because he had a lot of militaristic mindset too, but i don't want to get into that or change the subject.

Ummm Jesus bloodline came through David, I think you better back off on that one. God chose David and gave him the victory. There is nothing wrong with a militaristic mindset. God sent the Jews out to war more than once and told them they had the victory.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This is hearsay.You'd better read what's written in the book yourself.

God said that there is only one true God in the world, but he never said that there is only one book about the true God.

No but He did though and He even said we were not to add to or take away from it.

 

[Gideon300]

The Truth about Muhammad
1) The messsage of Islam is intertwined with its messanger. Allegiance to one implies allegiance to the other.
2) Muslims who question Allah are usually tolerated by other Muslims, but questioning Muhammad is grounds for excommunication or worse.
3) Islamic theology has accorded him the title "al-Insan al-Kamil", which translates to "the man who has attained perfection".
4) Because of hadith and tradition, Muslim religion, culture, heritage, and identity all find their core in the person of Muhammad.
5) Muslims see an attack on Muhammad's character as equivalent to a personal attack on them and everything they stand for.
6) Islam comes from the same Arabic root word that means "peace". According to Muslims, the life of Muhammad rreflects this.
7) According to Muslims, on the day that Muhammad conquered Mecca, Muhammad forgave meccans despite their horrific treatment of Muslims.
8) According to Muslims, the other battles Muhammad fought were all defensive.
9) According to Muslims, Muhammad knew about subjects like embryology, astronomy, and geology, knowledge he could have attained only if Allah had revealed it to him. However, there are problems with many of the Quranic verses that are obvious to physicians and other scientists. For example, The Quran 23: 13-14 reads, "Then we made him a sperm in a fixed lodging. Then we made the sperm a hanging (thing), then we made the hanging into a chewed (thing), then we made the chewed into bones, then we clothed the bones with flesh, then we developed it into another crreation, so blessed be Allah, the best of creators." The verse explains the sequential development of an embryo, but the sequence is incorrect. An embryo does not first become bones to be later clothed with flesh. One layer of an embryo, the mesoderm, differentiates into bone and flesh at the same time.
10) The Quran: 9.5 But when the forbidden (four) months are over, then fight and kill the (distrusted) pagans wherever you find them, and catch them, attack them, and stay waiting for them in every stage (of war); But if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then make it easy for them: Verily, Allah is Often Forgiving , Most Merciful.
11) The hadiths ( stories, sayings, rituals and traditions attributed to Mohammad) were written 200 to 250 years after Muhammad. From Muhammad to that time the stories were passed down orally.
12) Almost everything Muslims know about Muhammad comes to them orally, rarely from primary sources.
13) Unlike Christians learning about Jesus from the Bible, the Quran has very little to say about Muhammad.
14) The earliest records of Muhammad's life expressly admit that they have intentional alterations.
15) Muhammad's first biography, "Sirat Rasul Allah" by Ibn Ishaq comes down to our day only through the transmission of a later biographer, Ibn Hisham.
16) In his introduction, Ibn Hisham explains that he altered the story of Muhammad's life. "Things which it is disgraceful to discuss, matters which would distress certain people, and such reports as [my teacher] told me he could not accept as trustworthy--all these things I have omitted." Found in Ibn Hisham's notes; Guillaume, Life of Muhammad, page 691.
17) The hadith Sahih Bukhari consists of 9 volumes that almost all Muslims consider the most historically authentic.
18) In the first volume, the third hadith, Muhammad's first revelation in the Cave of Hira, instead of recounting that the angel simply asked Muhammad to recite, Muhammad reports that " the angel caught me forcefully and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore." Each time the angel asked Muhammad to recite, the angel applied unbearable pressure. After his encounter with the angel, Muhammad returned to his wife terrified, his "heart beating severely."
19) Volume 9 hadith 111 (9.1110 describes the same event. It said that when Muhammad saw Gabriel, his "neck muscles twitched in terror," and when Gabriel had gone for a while, the Prophet became so depressed "that he intended several times to throw himself from the top of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would apppear before him and say, ' O Muhammad. You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth, whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down."
20) In Volume 1 hadith 24, Muhammad says , " I have been ordered by Allah to fight against people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity...then they will save their lives and property from me."
21) The previous statement (#20) contradicts the Quran's clear statement that "there is no compulsion in religion."
22) Volume 1 hadith 25 says that the greatest thing a Muslim can do after having faith is to engage in jihad. As if to clarify what kind of jihad, Sahih Bukhari clarifies, "religious fighting."
23) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, the translator used Ibn Hisham's abridgement of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah. On page 676 Muhammad ordered a warrior to assassinate a mother of five, Asma bint Marwan. She was breastfeeding a child when she was murdered, her blood splattering on her children. When the assassin told Muhammad he had difficulty with what he had done, Muhammad showed no remorse.
24) In Guillaume's, Life of Muhammad, page 464: in the aftermath of the Battle of the Trench, Muhammad captured and beheaded over 500 men and teenage boys from the Jewish tribe of Quraya. After the Muslims killed the men, they sold the women and children into slavery and distributed their goods among themselves.
25) This account is also found in both hadith and sirah (biographies).
26) Islam commands Muslims to have no more than 4 wives at a time, Yet Mahammad had at least 7 at one point. The Quran 33;50 says Muhammad had special privilege.
27) According to Sahih Bukhari, volume 7, hadith 62.64, 62.65, and 62.88 and Sahih Muslim 8.3310 and8.3311 Aisha was 6 when Muhammad married her, and he consummated the marriage with her 3 years later, when he was 52.
28) Muhammad had been poisoned; on his deathbed, he felt as if the poison was killing him; he had black magic cast on him. Sahih Bukhari volume 3 hadith 47 verse 786 (3.47.786). Also 5.59.713 and 4.54.490.
29) He revealed versus he later admitted had been from Satan. Guillaume's Life of Muhammad pages 165-166.
30) He tortured people for money. Ibid.,515
31) He led an attack on unarmed Jews. Sahih Bukhari 1.11.584
32) He caused his adopted son to divorce so he could marry his daughter-in-law, Zaiab. Quran 33.37; Sahih Muslim 8.3330; Tabari volume 8, pages 2-3
33) He told people to drink camel's urine. Sahih Bukhari 8.82.794; Sahih Muslim 16.4130
34) In the 1940s Martin Lings, an English scholar who converted to Sufi Islam, wrote an internationally acclaimed, comprehensive, and authoritative account of the life of Muhammad the prophet. The title of the book is "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources" It has been published in12 languages, and has received numerous awards, including acknowledgement as best biography of the prophet in English at the National Seerate Conference in Islamabad. The conference was attended by Muslim clerics from around the world. The chapter titled "The Threshold of War" seems to say that it was the Muslims who were the first aggressors against Mecca after Muhammad had migrated to Medina. Muhammad sent 8 Muslims to lie in wait for a Meccan trade caravan during the holy month. Even though this was a time of sacred truce for Arabs, the Muslims killed one man, captured2 others, and plundered their goods.
31) Most Muslims have a copy of the Quran but have never read any of the hadiths themselves. What they know about Muhammad is what they hear orally from a person called an Imam who leads them in prayer to Allah and tells them sugarcoated stories about Muhammad.
32) How can a man like Muhammad be a prophet of God? He certainly wasn't a man who had attained perfection. I hope this helps you understand what kind of man Muslims ignorantly glorify.
33) All of this information comes from a book written by a devout Muslim who converted to Christianity, Nabeel Qureshi. The title of the book is " Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus.

Mohamed makes Hitler look like a choirboy. And that is Islam's "perfect man". Muslims tried to conquer Europe centuries ago. Now they are invading in the guise of "refugees". WW1 was really WW2. WW1 started with Muslim conquests. There was a long pause, but the war has not stopped. The reestablishment of Israel fired up the Muslim world again. Islam's vision has always been domination of the world. That is in direct opposition to the kingdom of God. Islam will surely fail, but it won't be for want of trying. Christians need to pray against the spirit of Islam continually. It is a work of the devil that Jesus came to destroy.

 

[Obedience]

And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of Allāh." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
https://quran.com/4/157?translations=17,19,20,21,85,18,22,95,84,101

Surah 4 157.又因为他们说And because they said,：
“我们确已杀死麦尔彦之子麦西哈.尔撒，真主的使者。”"We have killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God."
他们没有杀死他，
They didn't kill him,
也没有把他钉死在十字架上，
Nor killed him on the cross,
但他们不明白这件事的真相。
But they don't understand the truth.
为尔撒而争论的人，对于他的被杀害，确是在迷惑之中。他们对于这件事， 毫无认识，不过根据猜想罢了。
. Those who argue about Jesus are indeed in confusion about his murder. They know nothing about it, but it's just a guess
他们没能确实地杀死他。
They failed to actually kill him for sure.

 

[Obedience]

他们没能确实地杀死他。

They failed to actually kill him for sure.



The book was written After Jesus was crucified, that is to say, they knew about Jesus' resurrection, so the wording was very strange. They knew about Jesus' death, but they used another narrative form. That is the sentence that stated the result. Jesus was finally resurrected. But they didn't make it clear.

 

[Eli1]

他们没能确实地杀死他。

They failed to actually kill him for sure.



The book was written After Jesus was crucified, that is to say, they knew about Jesus' resurrection, so the wording was very strange. They knew about Jesus' death, but they used another narrative form. That is the sentence that stated the result. Jesus was finally resurrected. But they didn't make it clear.

Okay so this is what I mean by a conspiracy which makes the whole situation laughable and makes Koran laughable because they’re saying the equivalent of the ”we didn’t go to the Moon” or “the Earth is flat”.

Even Atheists and all the historians say that Jesus did die on the cross.
The historians don’t talk about the resurrection, sure, but they have the chain of events correct, up to the resurrection.

 

[Moses_Young]

Okay so this is what I mean by a conspiracy which makes the whole situation laughable and makes Koran laughable because they’re saying the equivalent of the ”we didn’t go to the Moon” or “the Earth is flat”.

Just there are lots of faults in the moon landing story. Photographs don't add up, samples of moon rock turned out to be a petrified tree, first astronauts died mysteriously after embarrassing NASA and the family claims NASA murdered them, alleged footage from Wikileaks showing Stanley Kubrick's moon landing filming etc.

The Earth is flat similarly is an observation, and careful evaluation of all the proofs of ball-Earth theory show it is unnecessary, so Occam's razor removes it as a superfluous theory to reality.

Even Atheists and all the historians say that Jesus did die on the cross.
The historians don’t talk about the resurrection, sure, but they have the chain of events correct, up to the resurrection.

Joslin McDowell evaluates Jesus resurrection from a legal perspective, and comes away with the conclusion that it is beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

@ Eli what did I say that you believe to be false? What I said was Biblically correct.

 

[Moses_Young]

@ Eli what did I say that you believe to be false? What I said was Biblically correct.

The below was the only part I could see as open to interpretation.

I think you better back off on that one.

 

[Eli1]

Joslin McDowell evaluates Jesus resurrection from a legal perspective, and comes away with the conclusion that it is beyond all reasonable doubt.

I agree and i don't know who Joslin McDowell was (i had to look him up) but the general consensus of the historians say that the crucifixion DID happen.
This is basic history 101.

 

[Eli1]

@ Eli what did I say that you believe to be false? What I said was Biblically correct.

Rose,

Moses gave you the answer. Also, just because we disagree on one thing it doesn't mean we can't discuss things further.
In your case however i don't think either of us will learn anything if we were to discuss David.
I've said a lot in the past regarding David and i don't want to mix it in this thread but i gave an example of the mindset.
So i am not taking David away from you, but i am limiting the influence of David in my life because he doesn't bring my any sort of happiness or joy.
I respect him because he is part of God's plan, just like i respect the saints, the apostilles or Jesus' mother.

 

[Magenta]

他们没能确实地杀死他。

They failed to actually kill him for sure.

The book was written After Jesus was crucified, that is to say, they knew about Jesus' resurrection,
so the wording was very strange. They knew about Jesus' death, but they used another narrative form.
That is the sentence that stated the result. Jesus was finally resurrected. But they didn't make it clear.

In fact they say that another was crucified in His place. No crucifixion, no resurrection.