Okay, to the people in Rome 20??, Or maybe 30?? will there even be a Rome then? ..............
The US Joins WW3
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Okay, to the people in Rome 20??, Or maybe 30?? will there even be a Rome then? ..............
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
When did they see the full number of gentiles come in?
If you don't believe that the full number of Gentiles has come in yet, then equally, you can't think that the people in the land are Israel regathered. The two events are linked.
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What is Israel's judgment?
Romans 11:
1. Blindness
2. Jealousy (because Gentiles receive Salvation)
3. Poverty (while Gentiles have riches)
4. Being Cast Away (cut off from God)
5. Severity of God's judgment
...AS LONG AS THEY CONTINUE IN UNBELIEF (v23), UNTIL THE FULLNESS OF GENTILES COMES IN (v25).
Paul's scriptures were the so-called Old Testament, so if we let the Old Testament define Paul's list, we get the following:
1. Their eyes darkened, their place/tents deserted, their table becomes a snare/trap (in v8-10 Paul references Psalm 69:22-25)
2. God chooses another nation to make Israel angry (referencing Deut 32:21)
3. That foreign nation would rise high in wealth while Israel sinks lower into poverty (Deut 28:15-68)
4. Israel would no longer remember their name, losing their national identity (Psalm 83)
5. They would be destroyed as a nation, scattering the people (Daniel 12 and many other passages)
...Again, AS LONG AS they continue in unbelief and UNTIL the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.
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What is unbelief?
Paul explains what unbelief is in Romans 10, the previous chapter.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
So, unbelief is rejecting Christ and being disobedient to God's commandments.
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Putting everything together: As long as Israel continues to reject Christ and be disobedient to God, God said they would continue to be ignorant of their national heritage and identity, live in poverty, would not inhabit their land, and another nation would be "chosen" and given the riches they should have. But when the full number of Gentile believers comes to Christ, Israel will no longer reject Christ or be disobedient to God, they will remember their national heritage and identity, gain the riches they lost, inhabit their land, and the foreign nation once upon a time "chosen" will no longer be "chosen".
Questions:
1. Does the so-called State of Israel believe in Christ (New Covenant)? No.
2. Is this State obedient to God's Commandments (Old Covenant)? No.
3. Has the full number of Gentiles come to Christ? No. And we know this because Christ isn't here.
If the answer is "no" to each of these questions, then true Israel is still scattered and in abject poverty, ignorant of who they really are, and jealous of a foreign nation currently claiming to be "God's chosen"...because God's Word is always true. Always.
The people in the land are not Israel. They're foreigners who were never "a single people" (Rom 10:19), meant to trigger anger in God's people.
Consider what the Bible says about the rapture and the 9th of Av.
1. It will be as the days of Noah. Why did God flood the earth? It was because man had become flesh and their thoughts were on nothing but evil all day long. This is the same reason why the day of the Lord is coming. Noah's flood depicts the rapture as Noah (Christ) and seven more souls (the church) are delivered from that judgment. That judgment would be directly tied to the Fall of Man -- that is the 9th of Av. They enter the ark seven days before the rain falls and the ark rises. If you begin counting with the 9th of Av as the first day, seven days later is the 15th of Av, that is when the curse ended. The rapture will be seven years before the curse ends.
2. We are also told it will be as the days of Lot. Why did God rain fire on Sodom and Gomorrah? It was because the cry of their evil had risen up to heaven. This is why the Day of the Lord will come on the earth. Lot and his two daughters represent the apostasy, the left behind saints who will flee to the wilderness during the tribulation. Once again the rapture is a rescue that takes place at the same time as the judgment falls and we know from history that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.
3. When Samson pushes out the two pillars (represents the rapture as the church is the pillar and base of the truth) the temple to Baal collapses and kills all the idolaters and false prophets. Once again, the rapture coincides with the judgement on man for the fall, and that takes place on the 9th of Av.
4. When Elijah calls down fire and all of Israel knows at that moment that Jehovah He is God and He is Lord, that depicts the rapture. At the same time the false prophets are taken down to the brook and killed. That means the judgment falls at the same time as the rapture and we know that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.
5. When Moses comes down the mountain and breaks the two tablets because Israel is involved in Pagan worship and an orgy, that was the 9th of Av. At that time Moses calls for those who will stand with the Lord, the tribe of Levi goes up to Him, depicting the rapture and then everyone else drinks the bitter water depicting the tribulation and 3,000 are killed indicating judgment on the idolaters.
6. Pentecost is 50 days after the Lord's ascension, He ascended on Shavuot, and Pentecost is on the 8th of Av, the Feast of New wine (this is contrary to what is taught by the Catholic church and denominations, but that teaching is not Biblical, it is easy to prove without any doubt that Jesus ascended on Shavuot, not ten days before hand and that it was a full fifty days later that Pentecost took place and that was the Feast of new wine). This is when the Church age began. Therefore it makes perfect sense that it concludes on the 9th of Av.
7. When Jesus was asked about when these things would take place it was in reference to the temple being cast down and not one stone remaining on another. The temple is always cast down on the 9th of Av. The first two temples were both cast down on that date. Jesus said He would build His church and Paul said the church is the temple of God. The church is the third temple, at the rapture it will be cast down. If your faith is on the rock, on the revelation of Jesus Christ, then you will be raptured. If your faith is resting on what brother so and so says, or what the pastor says, then you are a stone that is resting on another stone and you will be cast down. This will happen on the 9th of Av.
1. It will be as the days of Noah. Why did God flood the earth? It was because man had become flesh and their thoughts were on nothing but evil all day long. This is the same reason why the day of the Lord is coming. Noah's flood depicts the rapture as Noah (Christ) and seven more souls (the church) are delivered from that judgment. That judgment would be directly tied to the Fall of Man -- that is the 9th of Av. They enter the ark seven days before the rain falls and the ark rises. If you begin counting with the 9th of Av as the first day, seven days later is the 15th of Av, that is when the curse ended. The rapture will be seven years before the curse ends.
2. We are also told it will be as the days of Lot. Why did God rain fire on Sodom and Gomorrah? It was because the cry of their evil had risen up to heaven. This is why the Day of the Lord will come on the earth. Lot and his two daughters represent the apostasy, the left behind saints who will flee to the wilderness during the tribulation. Once again the rapture is a rescue that takes place at the same time as the judgment falls and we know from history that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.
3. When Samson pushes out the two pillars (represents the rapture as the church is the pillar and base of the truth) the temple to Baal collapses and kills all the idolaters and false prophets. Once again, the rapture coincides with the judgement on man for the fall, and that takes place on the 9th of Av.
4. When Elijah calls down fire and all of Israel knows at that moment that Jehovah He is God and He is Lord, that depicts the rapture. At the same time the false prophets are taken down to the brook and killed. That means the judgment falls at the same time as the rapture and we know that the judgment falls on the 9th of Av.
5. When Moses comes down the mountain and breaks the two tablets because Israel is involved in Pagan worship and an orgy, that was the 9th of Av. At that time Moses calls for those who will stand with the Lord, the tribe of Levi goes up to Him, depicting the rapture and then everyone else drinks the bitter water depicting the tribulation and 3,000 are killed indicating judgment on the idolaters.
6. Pentecost is 50 days after the Lord's ascension, He ascended on Shavuot, and Pentecost is on the 8th of Av, the Feast of New wine (this is contrary to what is taught by the Catholic church and denominations, but that teaching is not Biblical, it is easy to prove without any doubt that Jesus ascended on Shavuot, not ten days before hand and that it was a full fifty days later that Pentecost took place and that was the Feast of new wine). This is when the Church age began. Therefore it makes perfect sense that it concludes on the 9th of Av.
7. When Jesus was asked about when these things would take place it was in reference to the temple being cast down and not one stone remaining on another. The temple is always cast down on the 9th of Av. The first two temples were both cast down on that date. Jesus said He would build His church and Paul said the church is the temple of God. The church is the third temple, at the rapture it will be cast down. If your faith is on the rock, on the revelation of Jesus Christ, then you will be raptured. If your faith is resting on what brother so and so says, or what the pastor says, then you are a stone that is resting on another stone and you will be cast down. This will happen on the 9th of Av.
The most important date is the one they infer was when Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden. The thought is that when God said they would live for 120 years that this referred to 120 jubilees. They made a deal with the devil that allowed Satan to indwell man as the flesh, but there is a time limit, just like the jubilee gives a time limit to selling your inheritance. You can't sell it, you can only lease it.
Now even if you do sell your inheritance you can always buy it back at any time. When Jesus paid the price for man you could receive His redeeming blood and that would free you from the slavery of sin. But otherwise it will be exactly 120 jubilees from the fall of man to the start of the millennial reign. That means that Armageddon will also be on the 9th of Av.
I am a believer in the promises made in that covenant and the New covenant.
I agree with the first half of your paragraph and really wish preachers who claim to be Bible believers would actually do what you suggest. Instead of carrying on a long standing tradition of following the writings of CI Schofield, etc like the Roman Catholic priests do their Pope's.
That goes for many evangelicals in general, Baptists, Pentecostals and various denominations. I agree that they should read the Book with an open mind to the Holy Spirit's illumination. That is commanded of their pastors and teachers.
I've heard the Abrahamic promise quoted many times and took it as I was taught, that we should bless Israel. Then I read the Bible through a time or two and paid attention to the times the covenants were mentioned. Then questions started being answered. I can't really give credit to anyone but the Holy Spirit.
Like Tucker is now doing is asking questions of Cruze like, how do you define Israel?
Does that seem reasonable?
I don't care what others think about this issue and it doesn't get my back up one way or the other. I've been on the side you speak to and don't find it to be a major doctrine or even an issue of any contention.
However, we aren't a mega church pastor who influences millions or a politician like Ted Cruze or I'd be asking questions and setting them straight on the issue with No hesitation.
Why?
Alliances with wicked Israeli politicians will lead to a curse upon many.
True and could it be that the NT is not defining the seed of Abraham as an ethnic group or geographic location that's occupied?
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Agree,
Didn’t Christ make the point that those who obey him are Abraham’s children, those who reject him are not?
Didn’t Paul say those of faith are the sons of Abraham? Christians are sons of Abraham.
So, those who bless the Christian, the true seed of Abraham, will be blessed by God, and those who curse the children of Abraham, the Christian, he will be cursed by God.
Look what God states regarding Covenant Isreal....
Leviticus 25:23
23 “‘The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers. 24 Throughout the land that you hold as a possession, you must provide for the redemption of the land.
And then later in Chapter 26
14 “‘But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands,
15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant,
16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it.
Apart from Covenant faithfulness to Torah, not the later rabbinical teachings no Israelite had any claim to the land.
In the first century just as Paul wrote to his audience and told them it would be.
We have no beef with each other. I simply believe eternal means what it says, unconditional, irrevocable. I take those to mean what they say. Israel was brutally attacked on Oct 7. When we were attacked on 9/11 no one told us how to handle our business. Israel has a right to a homeland and to live there in peace. It's just that simple for me.
Donald Trump has given a two week deadline to come to the table and accept an unconditional surrender. I don't think anyone thinks the IRGC can do that, it would be their political demise and most likely their physical death. But I also think that Israel can obliterate Iran's nuclear capability in that time frame. I think "bunker buster" bombs are a distraction. These sites are remote, Israel has complete air superiority so they can keep an eye on the facilities and blow up any truck going to or from the facility. You can take out anyone on the ground. This allows them to drop in commandos trained for this operation. Any bunker has to have entrances and exits. Seal those. Any bunker needs to have a powerful HVAC system to pump in fresh air. Cut the power to that or cut the supply of diesel if it is located deep underground. They all need to have vents to draw air in and to vent air out. This means they can drop smoke bombs, tear gas and other devices into these vents. They can seal off the vents that vent air out or draw air in. After two weeks you breach one of the doors and work your way in. If there are only a few scientists in there they will come out hands up. If there is a battalion in there they will all have died from asphyxiation. The bottom line is the US does not need to come in with bunker busting bombs, that would not guarantee that the facility is destroyed and no one wants to go check after you have dropped those bombs as all the routes down would be unstable rubble. The only way to know for sure is to send commandos down with C4.
Let me get this straight, you are saying that when God makes an eternal covenant He means that it is eternal?