The written word: Could we survive as Christians without it?

[Lanolin]

Also hes Italian and white according to those renaissance paintings.

Oh and the the guy adam, he was some kind of body builder who was always pointing his finger. There was no eve shes not even in the picture. Dont know where people think she came from.

 

[Lanolin]

We dug up some fossils and believe Eve was actually an ape. We must be descended from apes cos they look like us but it must have been millions of years ago.

The Bible? Never heard of it. Whats that?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

ForestGreenCook,

I'm going to try to respond to your post, but if I misunderstood you, then please let me know.


1. I can't believe anyone even read that long rambling post I made.

- You clearly have the spiritual gift of patience, lol.

2. When God tells us not to "lean" on our own understanding, I don't think he's instructing us to turn off our minds, and just stop thinking. I believe God means something else.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

3. I think the point of Proverbs 3:5 is this: God is telling us not to TRUST in our own human thoughts, and not to PLACE OUR THOUGHTS ABOVE HIS THOUGHTS.

Of course we should never put our thoughts above God's thoughts...
but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have thoughts.


Rather than entirely stopping our thoughts, we are to simply bring them UNDER CONTROL, so they are under obedience to Christ.

2Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


We are to learn God's thoughts, and bring our thoughts under obedience, into harmony, with God's thoughts... not turn off our thinking.

In fact, we can't turn off our thinking even if we try.

You can't turn off your brain.


4. When God made us in his image, one of the special things he gave us is the ability to THINK and REASON in rational ways... we are different than all of the animals.

Dogs and cats don't sit around and ponder the meaning of Proverbs 3:5, like we're doing right now.
We are unique.

5. God created us as "thinking" beings.

God created us as thinking beings with the full expectation that we would be THINKING.
So we are NOT to turn our thinking off... but we ARE to bring our thinking under obedience to Christ.

6. God made us thinking beings, and we cannot be separated from our minds... we are to bring our minds under subjection to Christ, and use them as we serve God.

God commands us to think right thoughts.
Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Well, how can we think right thoughts if we are not thinking?

7. Christians should not be afraid to use their minds; it doesn't make us less spiritual to do so... we can't even read the bible or talk to each other without using our minds.

The spirit and the mind are not antithetical, and one needn't compromise the other.
They are to work in harmony and obedience to Christ.

If you aren't going to use your mind, then you can't even disagree with me... because you have to use your mind to do that.



.

Matt 11:25 - Jesus says that God made the scriptures a mystery to dumbfound the wise and revealed them unto babes. Jesus also said that when he goes to his Father, that he will send another comforter, which is the Holy Spirit and he will bring to your memory all things whatsoever I have taught you. I am under the impression that if we think that we are intelligent enough of our own intellect to understand the scriptures, without having the Holy Spirits revelation he will not reveal the understanding to us.

 

[maxwel]

Matt 11:25 - Jesus says that God made the scriptures a mystery to dumbfound the wise and revealed them unto babes. Jesus also said that when he goes to his Father, that he will send another comforter, which is the Holy Spirit and he will bring to your memory all things whatsoever I have taught you. I am under the impression that if we think that we are intelligent enough of our own intellect to understand the scriptures, without having the Holy Spirits revelation he will not reveal the understanding to us.

Before we continue, I want to be VERY CLEAR on your position.


Are you asserting that a Christian should NOT study?

.

 

[Whispered]

None of us do the will of our heavenly Father continually. If you are saying that is a requirement to enter into eternal heaven, then it would promote the idea that eternal salvation is gained by the work of man, would it not?

The salvation by works teaching certainly does project that, yes.
I see it like the pro-choice movement protestations for the right to kill a child even after birth. Notice? They're all already alive?
That's how the works salvation doctrinaire's come across. They teach we must work to stay saved and all the while they're certain they are.
Jesus made it all so simple after making that horrifically pain filled sacrifice on the cross. Those who believe are saved.
Leave it to the pride and ego of human's to interject a complex formula that imparts they want to insure not everyone is saved that easily.
Why?
"Cui Bono" , "Who Benefits?"

 

[Whispered]

We dug up some fossils and believe Eve was actually an ape. We must be descended from apes cos they look like us but it must have been millions of years ago.

The Bible? Never heard of it. Whats that?

 

[SoulWeaver]

We dug up some fossils and believe Eve was actually an ape. We must be descended from apes cos they look like us but it must have been millions of years ago.

The Bible? Never heard of it. Whats that?

This actually resonates a lot with how some view women in the church...

 

[Nehemiah6]

All things have life within them, this Life from the smallest to the greatest is nothing less than the Life of God Himself.

This is just Pantheistic nonsense, and you will not find any Scripture to support it. In fact, you did not provide any.

1. The life of God is eternal life, and that is given as a gift through Jesus Christ our Lord to those who obey the Gospel: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23).

2. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself is Eternal Life, and He is given as a gift only to those who believe: For the Life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that Eternal Life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us (1 Jn 1:2)

Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and the Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn 11:25,26)

All living creatures on earth have life and breath given by God, but not all have "the Life of God Himself". But that is what Pantheistic Eastern Religions teach.

'Question: "What is pantheism?"

Answer: Pantheism is the view that God is everything and everyone and that everyone and everything is God. Pantheism is similar to polytheism (the belief in many gods), but goes beyond polytheism to teach that everything is God. A tree is God, a rock is God, an animal is God, the sky is God, the sun is God, you are God, etc. Pantheism is the supposition behind many cults and false religions (e.g., Hinduism and Buddhism to an extent, the various unity and unification cults, and “mother nature” worshippers).

Does the Bible teach pantheism? No, it does not. What many people confuse as pantheism is the doctrine of God's omnipresence. Psalm 139:7-8 declares, “Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.” God's omnipresence means He is present everywhere. There is no place in the universe where God is not present. This is not the same thing as pantheism. God is everywhere, but He is not everything. Yes, God is “present” inside a tree and inside a person, but that does not make that tree or person God. Pantheism is not at all a biblical belief...'

https://www.gotquestions.org/pantheism.html

 

[Whispered]

ANYTHING, ANYTHING, ANYTHING, That exists , whither a rock or a flower, does so ONLY because of the Life of God. A dog has no soul , but this dog represents one of the many aspects of the glory of God. What life it possesses is expressed here on earth while it remains on earth, each dog being different from the next. The same can be said about a flower, there is never two flowers that are the same just as there are no two rocks that are the same. When a dog dies whatever" LIFE" that is in him returns to Him who gave it. LIFE in all of creation , right down the last grain of sand, is present because He is present. This LIFE is not here because of Him, Life is here because it is Him.

An atom , which is represented as one the smallest segments , that makes up the identity of ANY object, has life within it.
All atoms are eternal . You may change them from one identify to another, but you can never destroy it. All things have life within them, this Life from the smallest to the greatest is nothing less than the Life of God Himself.

Don't be discouraged by naysayers. When God is all and the one God and there is none other than He and no Savior but He,as our Father tells us, then there can be no thing created by the Father that does not have the essence of the Father within it.
Where did he go to create things if he did not create from Himself? Walmart? All things happen according to the time our Father sets for the awakening.
Have you ever sought the search criteria, the origins of Christian "Pantheism", as that word is offered very often in rebuttal of scriptures here? Pan Theism. Pan from the Greek meaning, all. Theism from the Greek, Theos, Gods, or Theo, God.
Pantheism = All God.
I used that search criterion because I'd not heard of the word before this thread. You may enjoy this. https://www.pantheism.net/paul/history/gospel.htm

"For by him all things were created … He is before all things and in him all things hold together." The Book of Colossians chapter 1 & verses 16&17
"Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?" The Book of 2nd Corinthians chapter 13 and verse 5
"But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you." [Romans 8.9]

"And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counsellor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you." The Book of John chapter 14 verses 15 & 16 "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. " Verse 23

 

[Deuteronomy]

I think I would go so far as to say "all" actually. The more sanctified (the more like Christ) we become, the more we come to realize how great the divide is between us and our Savior.

That's not true.

Eternal life is found in "knowing" Him .. e.g. John 17:3, but Jesus tells those in v22 (who claim that they were Christians), "I ~NEVER~ knew you". That, in fact, is why they will be judged and condemned by Him at the Great White Throne .. e.g. John 3:18. The folks in Matthew 7:22 are not/never were Christians (though they certainly "claimed" and may well have "believed" themselves to be).

Matthew 7:21-23 is one of, if not 'the' most frightening passages in the Bible, IMHO anyway.

~Deut

Matthew 7​

21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.​

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’​

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’​

.

None of us do the will of our heavenly Father continually. If you are saying that is a requirement to enter into eternal heaven, then it would promote the idea that eternal salvation is gained by the work of man, would it not?

Hello ForestGreenCook, I said that "eternal life is found in ~knowing~ Him" (not in what we "do" for Him), so I'm not sure how you could have reached the conclusion that, "eternal salvation is gained by the work of man", from what I said

In fact, if you have the time, please tell me what I said (in my copied post just above) that led you to conclude what you did (I ask because I would love to learn how to better communicate my thoughts on CChat in the future, so thank you for your help with that )

That said, I'll try again.

Christians "do the will of the Father" ~because~ we are Christians (not to become or to remain Christians). God gave us new hearts and new spirits, caused us to be born again, and justified us by grace through faith (on the sole basis of Jesus' meritorious works, done on our behalf when He lived among us as a man).

When we are born again and then justified by Him, we are given the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as well the mind of Christ, and He makes us into wholly new creatures as His workmanship. He quickens us from the dead, He causes us to be born again, He declares us just, He sanctifies us, and He glorifies us (though He does enable us to come alongside of Him and participate with Him in our sanctification, as much as we are able to anyway .. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13).

Put most simply, we are saved from God, by God, for God. Even the saving faith that we exercise to believe is a gift to us from God .. Ephesians 2:8-9, so nothing that 'we' do in regards to our salvation is meritorious. I hope that explains where I'm coming from (in regard to our salvation) a little more clearly. If not, please let me know and I'll try again

~Deut

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Before we continue, I want to be VERY CLEAR on your position.


Are you asserting that a Christian should NOT study?

.

Not at all. Study to show yourselves approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15.

 

[maxwel]

Not at all. Study to show yourselves approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15.

Well, we cannot study without using our minds.

So you agree it's fine for a Christian to use his mind?

.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hello ForestGreenCook, I said that "eternal life is found in ~knowing~ Him" (not in what we "do" for Him), so I'm not sure how you could have reached the conclusion that, "eternal salvation is gained by the work of man", from what I said

In fact, if you have the time, please tell me what I said (in my copied post just above) that led you to conclude what you did (I ask because I would love to learn how to better communicate my thoughts on CChat in the future, so thank you for your help with that )

That said, I'll try again.

Christians "do the will of the Father" ~because~ we are Christians (not to become or to remain Christians). God gave us new hearts and new spirits, caused us to be born again, and justified us by grace through faith (on the sole basis of Jesus' meritorious works, done on our behalf when He lived among us as a man).

When we are born again and then justified by Him, we are given the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as well the mind of Christ, and He makes us into wholly new creatures as His workmanship. He quickens us from the dead, He causes us to be born again, He declares us just, He sanctifies us, and He glorifies us (though He does enable us to come alongside of Him and participate with Him in our sanctification, as much as we are able to anyway .. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13).

Put most simply, we are saved from God, by God, for God. Even the saving faith that we exercise to believe is a gift to us from God .. Ephesians 2:8-9, so nothing that 'we' do in regards to our salvation is meritorious. I hope that explains where I'm coming from (in regard to our salvation) a little more clearly. If not, please let me know and I'll try again

~Deut

I believe that where we are seeing things differently is that I am believing "The kingdom of heaven" is one of the names that the scriptures use to describe the church that Jesus set up. And if I not misreading your understanding, is that you believe "The kingdom of heaven" is referring to eternal heaven. Is this right,or am I missing what you are saying? Sorry that I seem to be hard to communicate with. I apologies for the mix up.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well, we cannot study without using our minds.

So you agree it's fine for a Christian to use his mind?

.

Yes I do, as long as he does not think that he is intelligent enough to understand the scriptures without the revelation of The Holy Spirit opening his mind to understand them. What do you think Jesus meant when he said "deny yourselves, and take up your cross, and follow me"?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hello ForestGreenCook, I said that "eternal life is found in ~knowing~ Him" (not in what we "do" for Him), so I'm not sure how you could have reached the conclusion that, "eternal salvation is gained by the work of man", from what I said

In fact, if you have the time, please tell me what I said (in my copied post just above) that led you to conclude what you did (I ask because I would love to learn how to better communicate my thoughts on CChat in the future, so thank you for your help with that )

That said, I'll try again.

Christians "do the will of the Father" ~because~ we are Christians (not to become or to remain Christians). God gave us new hearts and new spirits, caused us to be born again, and justified us by grace through faith (on the sole basis of Jesus' meritorious works, done on our behalf when He lived among us as a man).

When we are born again and then justified by Him, we are given the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit, as well the mind of Christ, and He makes us into wholly new creatures as His workmanship. He quickens us from the dead, He causes us to be born again, He declares us just, He sanctifies us, and He glorifies us (though He does enable us to come alongside of Him and participate with Him in our sanctification, as much as we are able to anyway .. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13).

Put most simply, we are saved from God, by God, for God. Even the saving faith that we exercise to believe is a gift to us from God .. Ephesians 2:8-9, so nothing that 'we' do in regards to our salvation is meritorious. I hope that explains where I'm coming from (in regard to our salvation) a little more clearly. If not, please let me know and I'll try again

~Deut

Matt 11:12 - And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence. Does this sound like eternal heaven?

 

[PERFECTION]

This is just Pantheistic nonsense, and you will not find any Scripture to support it. In fact, you did not provide any.

1. The life of God is eternal life, and that is given as a gift through Jesus Christ our Lord to those who obey the Gospel: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23).

2. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself is Eternal Life, and He is given as a gift only to those who believe: For the Life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that Eternal Life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us (1 Jn 1:2)

Jesus said unto her, I am The Resurrection, and the Life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn 11:25,26)

All living creatures on earth have life and breath given by God, but not all have "the Life of God Himself". But that is what Pantheistic Eastern Religions teach.

'Question: "What is pantheism?"

Answer: Pantheism is the view that God is everything and everyone and that everyone and everything is God. Pantheism is similar to polytheism (the belief in many gods), but goes beyond polytheism to teach that everything is God. A tree is God, a rock is God, an animal is God, the sky is God, the sun is God, you are God, etc. Pantheism is the supposition behind many cults and false religions (e.g., Hinduism and Buddhism to an extent, the various unity and unification cults, and “mother nature” worshippers).

Does the Bible teach pantheism? No, it does not. What many people confuse as pantheism is the doctrine of God's omnipresence. Psalm 139:7-8 declares, “Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.” God's omnipresence means He is present everywhere. There is no place in the universe where God is not present. This is not the same thing as pantheism. God is everywhere, but He is not everything. Yes, God is “present” inside a tree and inside a person, but that does not make that tree or person God. Pantheism is not at all a biblical belief...'

https://www.gotquestions.org/pantheism.html

"pantheism" Someone made up a word and is trying to make a religion out of it.

When I became born again everything in my life changed. Colors became more vivid, priorities changed, the souls of people became very precious, everything changed.
Jesus ,by whom all things exists and without Him nothing that exists would exist , imparted to all who are born again, Himself.
We ,who are born again, are born of His Spirit. You cannot have one without the other.
It is strange to me that we find it so hard to believe this union has benefit not written on paper. Albert Einsteins theory of relativity
is not ,per say , written in scripture, nevertheless to deny its truth would put you among those who still do not believe man walked on the moon.
A born again believer does not have to understand how Devin power holds the universe together but a born-again believer would never deny it is Devin power that holds it together.
How is it we know the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now with earnest expectation as it waits for the revealing of the sons of God.
I have decided a new definition for "pantheism" is in order. From this time forward the definition shall be "THE DEVINE PRESENCE OF GOD'. ......from a single living atom of a mountain to the mountain its self.......to any other object these living atoms form.....air....water...
flesh....each atom is a part of God. One day all of these atoms ,which make up the entire universe, will be summed back to Him to be.....
I AM.

 

[posthuman]

I have decided a new definition for "pantheism" is in order. From this time forward the definition shall be "THE DEVINE PRESENCE OF GOD'. ......from a single living atom of a mountain to the mountain its self.......to any other object these living atoms form.....air....water...
flesh....each atom is a part of God. One day all of these atoms ,which make up the entire universe, will be summed back to Him to be.....
I AM.

God is spirit, not physical matter.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and elements will be dissolved, burning with heat, and the earth and the works in it will not be found.
(2 Peter 3:10) ​

 

[garee]

God is spirit, not physical matter.

​

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and elements will be dissolved, burning with heat, and the earth and the works in it will not be found. ​

(2 Peter 3:10) ​

Yes, we simply do not know God eternal Spirit as the things as rudiments of this world. No need for microscopes or telescopes.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[posthuman]

No need for microscopes or telescopes.

well i wouldn't say they're entirely un-useful

 

[Nehemiah6]

Don't be discouraged by naysayers.

That should have been "Don't persist in erroneous beliefs derived from Eastern religions".