Theology

[WalkerAllan]

THEOLOGY​

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. (1 Corinthians 2:13, NIV)​

Theologians have, over the centuries, brought the search for an understanding of God down to an intellectual exercise using “human wisdom,” that is techniques introduced by early philosophers and developed further in academia.
The reason for doing this was to gain the favour of the intellectuals of the day and to achieve some status within the academic community and thus the wider world.

The intended consequence of this was to exclude the uninitiated (the “ignorant and unlearned”) from the inner circle. In other words, it separated an elite that can know God from the rest of us who cannot, at least not without their help and then only to a limited degree.
It has served to create and strengthen a virtually impassable chasm between the ruling class (clergy) and those over whom they would rule (the “ordinary” Christians).

This is, of course, in complete contradiction to New Testament teaching which so clearly tells us that under the terms of the New Covenant:

No longer will they teach their neighbor,​

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’​

because they will all know me,​

from the least of them to the greatest.(Hebrews 8:11, NIV)​

An understanding of Scripture that is purely a result of intellectual inquiry is of no value to God.

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:20‑21, NIV)​

This is why Jesus loved to receive children so much.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25, NIV)​

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (Romans 8:14, NIV)​

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[throughfaith]

THEOLOGY​

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. (1 Corinthians 2:13, NIV)​

Theologians have, over the centuries, brought the search for an understanding of God down to an intellectual exercise using “human wisdom,” that is techniques introduced by early philosophers and developed further in academia.
The reason for doing this was to gain the favour of the intellectuals of the day and to achieve some status within the academic community and thus the wider world.

The intended consequence of this was to exclude the uninitiated (the “ignorant and unlearned”) from the inner circle. In other words, it separated an elite that can know God from the rest of us who cannot, at least not without their help and then only to a limited degree.
It has served to create and strengthen a virtually impassable chasm between the ruling class (clergy) and those over whom they would rule (the “ordinary” Christians).

This is, of course, in complete contradiction to New Testament teaching which so clearly tells us that under the terms of the New Covenant:

No longer will they teach their neighbor,​

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’​

because they will all know me,​

from the least of them to the greatest.(Hebrews 8:11, NIV)​

An understanding of Scripture that is purely a result of intellectual inquiry is of no value to God.

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:20‑21, NIV)​

This is why Jesus loved to receive children so much.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25, NIV)​

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (Romans 8:14, NIV)​

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬​

I agree with your overall point here. I would only differ on a verses you use. I believe Hebrews 8 is talking about Israel .
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Then the unfortunate rendering of the Niv which says : God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I don't believe God is pleased by the ' foolish message ' , but rather the method of preaching as the Kjv says .

 

[p_rehbein]

While I am not a great fan of the theological ideologies of the various denominations/church groups, I have to say to the OP........... Um....yes, and, no.

Reason being, I believe what is being taught is the "theology" of man that is NOT directly stated in Scripture, but created by man. This kind of theology would fit your OP.

However; one can never say that Preachers/Pastors/Teachers are not a good thing because each of these callings are a Gift of the Holy Spirit!

And, of course, the most obvious, as you yourself are acting as a "teacher" here, should we take the OP word for word, would we NOT cast you out?

 

[pottersclay]

God is not intelligent he is all knowing.
I am sure that our God who has created everything from nothing and holds them together has also provided ways of understanding to the simple as well as the wise if we only humble our selves seek his face and pray.
" For it is not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit says the Lord."..........let him ask.

 

[WalkerAllan]

To take this matter a little further, I would like to share with you a quote from Millar J Erickson’s book, “Christian Theology” (page 1245). He doesn’t beat about the bush, but sums up some of the fundamental issues which are at the heart of this problem.


“There are certain dangers associated with the study of theology. There are certain theological diseases to which one is exposed and which one may contract as a result of this endeavour. Helmet Thielicke has described several of them quite vividly in his Little Exercise for Young Theologians.

“ ’One of the most common and most serious is the sin of pride. When we have acquired a considerable sophistication in matters of theology, there is a danger that we will regard that knowledge as a badge of virtue, something that sets us apart as superior to others. We may use that knowledge, and particularly the jargon we have acquired, to intimidate others who are less informed. We may take advantage of our superior skills, becoming intellectual bullies.’

“Or our knowledge of theology may lead us to a type of theological gamesmanship, in which the arguing of one theory against another becomes our whole purpose in life. But this is to convert what should be the most serious of matters into a sport.”

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[Blik]

THEOLOGY​

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. (1 Corinthians 2:13, NIV)​

Theologians have, over the centuries, brought the search for an understanding of God down to an intellectual exercise using “human wisdom,” that is techniques introduced by early philosophers and developed further in academia.
The reason for doing this was to gain the favour of the intellectuals of the day and to achieve some status within the academic community and thus the wider world.

The intended consequence of this was to exclude the uninitiated (the “ignorant and unlearned”) from the inner circle. In other words, it separated an elite that can know God from the rest of us who cannot, at least not without their help and then only to a limited degree.
It has served to create and strengthen a virtually impassable chasm between the ruling class (clergy) and those over whom they would rule (the “ordinary” Christians).

This is, of course, in complete contradiction to New Testament teaching which so clearly tells us that under the terms of the New Covenant:

No longer will they teach their neighbor,​

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’​

because they will all know me,​

from the least of them to the greatest.(Hebrews 8:11, NIV)​

An understanding of Scripture that is purely a result of intellectual inquiry is of no value to God.

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:20‑21, NIV)​

This is why Jesus loved to receive children so much.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25, NIV)​

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (Romans 8:14, NIV)​

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬​

I agree with you, except that I believe the holy spirit must be constantly fed the word and we need to believe in it. Even the churches sometimes teach against believing some of it as they teach God speaks only to Israel, or that parts of the word is to be understood as abolished instead of understood better.

In my past I have failed at times when the Lord presented me with opportunities to serve Him because I had not fed myself the word adequately. As an example, a Jewish lady who asked me about Christ.

We have so much theology, so much propaganda from movies and newspapers, such filth given in our books that our minds must constantly be washed of it all. Star Wars even corrupts the Lord be telling us of The Force.

 

[wattie]

Yeah, most often a person converted is not due to reasoning out an intellectual obstacle but a shift in their heart from conviction by God.

They may have had a wall or two broken down by intellectual study but the step of faith in Jesus is the actual point.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Quite the contrary. It is precisely the theologians of the scholastic era that set people free from the abuses of the catholic church that cultivated uneducated piety so that they could fleece the flock. Further more it is to this day that theologians keep the church well grounded in true doctrine. It is the churches with no theologians that are so full of nonsense and foolishness such as the Joel Osteens, and Kenneth Copelands that preach vapid feel good or worse fleece the flock making themselves rich on the people's ignorance.
It is absolute folly to attempt to disparage the intellectual pursuit of God. To accuse those who seek God with all their minds of doing so by some separation from their heart. It is passion that drives and fuels the soul of those who pour themselves into the intellectual pursuit.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:37 KJV .

This is where some understanding of church history comes into use.
It was the pietist who rejected the scholastics for the same reasons stated in the OP that brought about liberalism in the church.

 

[Blik]

Quite the contrary. It is precisely the theologians of the scholastic era that set people free from the abuses of the catholic church that cultivated uneducated piety so that they could fleece the flock. Further more it is to this day that theologians keep the church well grounded in true doctrine. It is the churches with no theologians that are so full of nonsense and foolishness such as the Joel Osteens, and Kenneth Copelands that preach vapid feel good or worse fleece the flock making themselves rich on the people's ignorance.
It is absolute folly to attempt to disparage the intellectual pursuit of God. To accuse those who seek God with all their minds of doing so by some separation from their heart. It is passion that drives and fuels the soul of those who pour themselves into the intellectual pursuit.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:37 KJV .

This is where some understanding of church history comes into use.
It was the pietist who rejected the scholastics for the same reasons stated in the OP that brought about liberalism in the church.

Truth must come from the Lord and the word, not from the intellect without the holy spirit. The intellect we are given is wonderful, but it is like obeying the ten commandments without understanding that each commandment is of love, and without love they are useless. With love they are priceless.

It is the same with the intellect, with the guidance of the holy spirit added it is priceless, without the holy spirit it is useless.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Truth must come from the Lord and the word, not from the intellect without the holy spirit. The intellect we are given is wonderful, but it is like obeying the ten commandments without understanding that each commandment is of love, and without love they are useless. With love they are priceless.

It is the same with the intellect, with the guidance of the holy spirit added it is priceless, without the holy spirit it is useless.

Anyone searching the scriptures for the deep truths about God is doing so by the Holy Spirit. All of the intellectual types but don't have the Holy Spirit or searching philosophy and science and things other than the scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

THEOLOGY​

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. (1 Corinthians 2:13, NIV)​

Theologians have, over the centuries, brought the search for an understanding of God down to an intellectual exercise using “human wisdom,” that is techniques introduced by early philosophers and developed further in academia.
The reason for doing this was to gain the favour of the intellectuals of the day and to achieve some status within the academic community and thus the wider world.

The intended consequence of this was to exclude the uninitiated (the “ignorant and unlearned”) from the inner circle. In other words, it separated an elite that can know God from the rest of us who cannot, at least not without their help and then only to a limited degree.
It has served to create and strengthen a virtually impassable chasm between the ruling class (clergy) and those over whom they would rule (the “ordinary” Christians).

This is, of course, in complete contradiction to New Testament teaching which so clearly tells us that under the terms of the New Covenant:

No longer will they teach their neighbor,​

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’​

because they will all know me,​

from the least of them to the greatest.(Hebrews 8:11, NIV)​

An understanding of Scripture that is purely a result of intellectual inquiry is of no value to God.

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:20‑21, NIV)​

This is why Jesus loved to receive children so much.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25, NIV)​

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (Romans 8:14, NIV)​

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬​

Do you agree that in this scripture, the little children (KJV says "babes" which I believe means "babes in Christ") does not have anything to do with the age of "little children"?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I agree with your overall point here. I would only differ on a verses you use. I believe Hebrews 8 is talking about Israel .
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Then the unfortunate rendering of the Niv which says : God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

I don't believe God is pleased by the ' foolish message ' , but rather the method of preaching as the Kjv says .

The house of Israel is Jacob surname Israel, and has reference to all of God's elect which consists of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. All Israel (the nation) is not of Israel (Jacob/Israel).

 

[TM19782017]

To take this matter a little further, I would like to share with you a quote from Millar J Erickson’s book, “Christian Theology” (page 1245). He doesn’t beat about the bush, but sums up some of the fundamental issues which are at the heart of this problem.


“There are certain dangers associated with the study of theology. There are certain theological diseases to which one is exposed and which one may contract as a result of this endeavour. Helmet Thielicke has described several of them quite vividly in his Little Exercise for Young Theologians.

“ ’One of the most common and most serious is the sin of pride. When we have acquired a considerable sophistication in matters of theology, there is a danger that we will regard that knowledge as a badge of virtue, something that sets us apart as superior to others. We may use that knowledge, and particularly the jargon we have acquired, to intimidate others who are less informed. We may take advantage of our superior skills, becoming intellectual bullies.’

“Or our knowledge of theology may lead us to a type of theological gamesmanship, in which the arguing of one theory against another becomes our whole purpose in life. But this is to convert what should be the most serious of matters into a sport.”

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I agree totally with this statement.
I seriously believe that when the one teaching, reveals all his flaws and mistakes and reveals the connection of how they arrived at this strong conviction...That is the best kind of leadership.
Our human stubbornness believes that we can arrive at that conviction and dodge all the flaws and mistakes.
We want to know, tell me where the shortcuts are! 😄

 

[WalkerAllan]

Do you agree that in this scripture, the little children (KJV says "babes" which I believe means "babes in Christ") does not have anything to do with the age of "little children"?

The many Bible translations translate this in many different ways. These includes “the unlearned, babes, infants, ordinary folks, like little children” as well as “little children.”

But they all get the same message across. We could debate about which is linguistically correct, but it doesn’t matter very much except to “the wise and the learned.”

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[Journeyman]

God will give anyone who truly desires it the finest education available.

 

[Msut77]

THEOLOGY​

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. (1 Corinthians 2:13, NIV)​

Theologians have, over the centuries, brought the search for an understanding of God down to an intellectual exercise using “human wisdom,” that is techniques introduced by early philosophers and developed further in academia.
The reason for doing this was to gain the favour of the intellectuals of the day and to achieve some status within the academic community and thus the wider world.

The intended consequence of this was to exclude the uninitiated (the “ignorant and unlearned”) from the inner circle. In other words, it separated an elite that can know God from the rest of us who cannot, at least not without their help and then only to a limited degree.
It has served to create and strengthen a virtually impassable chasm between the ruling class (clergy) and those over whom they would rule (the “ordinary” Christians).

This is, of course, in complete contradiction to New Testament teaching which so clearly tells us that under the terms of the New Covenant:

No longer will they teach their neighbor,​

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’​

because they will all know me,​

from the least of them to the greatest.(Hebrews 8:11, NIV)​

An understanding of Scripture that is purely a result of intellectual inquiry is of no value to God.

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:20‑21, NIV)​

This is why Jesus loved to receive children so much.

At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. (Matthew 11:25, NIV)​

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. (Romans 8:14, NIV)​

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬​

No one has to lose faith to God any more!... We KNOW now for sure that our Lord Jesus Christ exists and is alive, through recent Amazing Christian News! An "atom bomb like" study with hard scientific evidence proves it

 

[Nehemiah6]

While I am not a great fan of the theological ideologies of the various denominations/church groups, I have to say to the OP........... Um....yes, and, no.

I would agree with this. Some theologians have been very perceptive in their commentaries, but others have created man-made doctrines because of their own stupidity (or inability to see the truth).

 

[Blik]

I would agree with this. Some theologians have been very perceptive in their commentaries, but others have created man-made doctrines because of their own stupidity (or inability to see the truth).

Over the more than 2,000 years since the nations began to understand they were included by the Lord in His kingdom, they have added thousands of ideas of their own to God. Constantine was one of the first, and he was extremely powerful. Now, when we study the word of the lord we must clear our mind of these added ideas and sort them out based on scripture and not what has become tradition.

In Acts we are told to sort out what had become tradition by the only people who knew God before Christ. The Pharisees made their theology the word of God, and it made them lose track of what was truly the word.

 

[posthuman]

I agree with your overall point here. I would only differ on a verses you use. I believe Hebrews 8 is talking about Israel .
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

in Hebrews 8:9-12 the author is quoting Jeremiah 31, and in Hebrews 8:6 ((and again in 9:15 for example)) the author identifies that covenant spoken of in Jeremiah as the very covenant Jesus speaks of in Matthew 26 / Luke 22, entered into through His blood & body -- taking the cup, as a marriage covenant, which we understand to mean the one that He has made with all who believe in Him, Jew & Gentile alike, the very same through which we are saved.

i should think that here "Israel" is in the sense that Christians - from whatever genetic heritage - are grafted into the tree, sons of Abraham by faith. we are not excluded from this mercy by our fleshly natural descendancy.

 

[Angela53510]

To take this matter a little further, I would like to share with you a quote from Millar J Erickson’s book, “Christian Theology” (page 1245). He doesn’t beat about the bush, but sums up some of the fundamental issues which are at the heart of this problem.


“There are certain dangers associated with the study of theology. There are certain theological diseases to which one is exposed and which one may contract as a result of this endeavour. Helmet Thielicke has described several of them quite vividly in his Little Exercise for Young Theologians.

“ ’One of the most common and most serious is the sin of pride. When we have acquired a considerable sophistication in matters of theology, there is a danger that we will regard that knowledge as a badge of virtue, something that sets us apart as superior to others. We may use that knowledge, and particularly the jargon we have acquired, to intimidate others who are less informed. We may take advantage of our superior skills, becoming intellectual bullies.’

“Or our knowledge of theology may lead us to a type of theological gamesmanship, in which the arguing of one theory against another becomes our whole purpose in life. But this is to convert what should be the most serious of matters into a sport.”

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I have this book, and I have used it for every theological theme I have studied. There is a good reason Erickson's book has over 1200 pages. It's because he touches on and explains every topic in theology. I just used the book to study the atonement.

I'm no elitist! My Christian walk is totally about following Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the one who started me on this educational path, first my MDiv, and now my PhD in theology.

If you really understood what theology was about, you would never claim ignorance is best. The more I learn about theology, which means "the study of God," the closer I come to God. The more it makes me reevaluate my own positions and read scripture to see if I need to look at my views. That happened on my most recent paper I wrote. I did reevaluate and found I had been on the right track on several issues.

God gave my intelligence, and my hunger to learn. He also gave me a ministry to the hurting and broken, which really came out in my study of the atonement.

If you people want to stay ignorant that is your prerogative. But don't go putting down people who have studied to show themselves approved, as the Bible tells us to do. I don't agree with everything a theologian says. But God gave me a mind to discern what he is saying, through them.

As for the Bible, I've read it over 50 times, plus repeatedly in Koine Greek, and some of the OT in Hebrew. The more I study theology, the more interesting the Bible becomes. Everyone should read their Bible daily. It will give you a hunger to know God more.