There is no such thing as Sola Scriptura

[ChurchAuthority]

Yes we face judgement after death - BUT - the dead haven't been judged yet so.

I never said Mary wasn't saved; heck I'm saved too. What of it?

All I said is that she was a sinner; or else she wouldn't have been on the Earth to be redeemed by Christ now would she?

LOL MARY HAS ORIGINAL SIN. Or else she wouldn't of had to be saved. See the contradiction you just made?

All the angel said was that she was blessed for conceiving and that was it. Just like the Bible says we are blessed if we hear the words of prophecy of the Bible. Doesn't mean we weren't born without original sin.

You trust in God...so you pray to someone else to give your prayers to God?

Just pray to God if you trust him so much; what grounds does she have to mediate for you - when Christ, God in the flesh, Father himself, said that he was the mediator?

What...is Mary a better mediator than Christ?

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

Where is the verse that the angel calls her Kecharitomene? Let me guess, the cathechism?

She wouldn't need a savior if she wasn't born with original sin.

The immaculate conception is only that she conceived without having to lay with a man; that is what made it immaculate because only God could do such a miracle.


Mary was like a prophet; like Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekial etc - people blessed by God to perpetuate his gospel work. That is it, blessed people.

They are not worthy of praise, and they are not worthy of honor;

You bow down to Mary, you praise her, you give her honor - lol that is for God alone.

Again...

Why do you idolize her?

You keep trying to defend it as if it's okay, but even through that your confessing that you worship an idol.

 

[Xanthus]

PS: I just saw that you asked me if I prayed to statues. When I was a kid in the Catholic Church, it was full of statues, pictures, and medallions of dead folks that were supposed to be prayed to for this and that. There are special "saints" for special purposes. Even the saint thing is different than scripture. It's an official designation by the pope not just a believer like in scripture. The whole church thing is to make everything officially controlled by Rome. It all came from the Roman Empire and is still run like a political state because that is what the Vatican is. If you're Catholic, you're paying taxes (tithing) to Rome. I am free from that system as well as the Protestant system which has it's own corrupt doctrine that it neglected to purge during the Reformation. That being the torture forever in fire of unbelievers which is not in a correct translation of scripture. Neither is the Trinity. God's ultimate plan is to be all in all. That is made possible by Christ's sacrifice. Creation and reconciliation have the same scope.

Hmmm, okay. I was wondering if *you* had prayed to any statues... apparently not....

I keep hearing all these stories from ex-Catholics and non-Catholics and ... well, there seems to be a whole lot of talk about all this praying to statues and stuff, but when I ask what statues did you pray to and how did you pray to them?... well, it turns out that, so far

NOT ONE SINGLE ONE HAS ANY specific recall of that actually happening.

Aint that something.


You said, "Even the saint thing is different than scripture. It's an official designation by the pope not just a believer like in scripture."

Umm, its not just the Pope -- there are lots and lots of scriptural "saint" passages that can be broadly interpreted in many ways.
Praise God in all His Saints (Ps 150:1).

Ps 148:14: “And He has exalted the horn of His people, the praise of all His saints-- of the children of Israel, a people near to Him. Praise the LORD!

many dozens more where that came from.

praise -- prays

 

[RickShafer]

If the scripture is not the living Word of God, what do we base our beliefs on?
Inspiration is real, but it ALWAYS lines up with two or three places in the bible - at the very least.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

Luke 1: 26 - 33

All it says is that the Lord found favor with Mary; that was it man. God also found favor with Abraham, Noah tons of other people. So why aren't you bowing down to statues of them?

Verse 48 says that all will call Mary blessed, which she was, but so was the dozens of other prophets and people in the Bible. Even Jesus said his disciples were blessed because they could perceive the knowledge of heaven;

Matthew 13: 10 - 13

No I wasn't the mom of Jesus, but that's all Mary was; his physical mother. Even Mary bowed down before Christ and glorified him as he so deserved.

She also had to be saved by him meaning that she had to be saved from sin. Jesus came for the sinners; not the righteous. Mary was a servant of God - a SERVANT. Why are you bowing down to a servant?

 

[Katy-follower]

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means?? You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

It's all very well saying this, but where are the scriptures to prove your claim?

Why is it important that Mary be sinless? God could've breathed Jesus into existence, but instead He chose for Jesus to enter this world as a man through birth. Clearly, God doesn't need a perfect and sinless vessel to give birth to Jesus, because Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Since God chose to use a human vessel, someone had to be picked, whether it be a Mary, Susan or Margaret. I expect Mary was chosen as a Godly woman, the right one to raise Jesus as her own. She gave birth to the humanity side of Jesus. God doesn't have a mother, He is the creator of all things and not created by anyone.

Without scripture how do you discern between truth and error?

Without scripture how do you test to see who the false teachers are? How do you know who is deceiving you and who is not?

Since you believe Mary remained a virgin her entire life, you would be admitting that she sinned, because not consummating her marriage to Joseph would've been a sin.

Edit: scripture says Mary had sons and daughters after Jesus.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

Oh I get it;

So lets assume that Mary was full of grace, and being full of grace means you have no original sin; somehow the angel comes in and says " Hail Mary, full of grace," and since she gave birth to Jesus, suddenly she is holy and to be hailed and worshipped.

Problems:

THERE IS NO BIBLICAL SUPPORT THAT THE ANGEL SAID " HAIL MARY,"

I read all the verses in which the birth of Jesus is written about, and NONE of them say this. So where did it come from?

The Catholic INTERPRETATION. They completely bent these verses out of context, and then built up her assumed " holliness " with scriptures that have nothing to do with Mary.

Grace for starters, is a gift that God freely gave to SINNERS, so that they could be saved. If Mary was born with sin, she wouldn't have needed grace nor the holy spirit to conceive Jesus, because she would have already been born perfect.

JESUS WAS THE ONLY PERFECT CONCEPTION

Jesus was completely blameless and righteous; Jesus was born without original sin;

To say that Mary was born without original sin, is to put her on the same level with God. THAT IS BOLD BLASPHEMY.

1 Timothy 2:5

The ONLY mediator is CHRIST.

Only the High Priest can mediate to God as it was dictated in the OT; in the NT, Christ is the New High Priest, thus is the only one who can mediate.

As I said -

IS MARY A BETTER MEDIATOR THAN CHRIST?

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

It's all very well saying this, but where are the scriptures to prove your claim?

Why is it important that Mary be sinless? God could've breathed Jesus into existence, but instead He chose for Jesus to enter this world as a man through birth. Clearly, God doesn't need a perfect and sinless vessel to give birth to Jesus, because Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.

Since God chose to use a human vessel, someone had to be picked, whether it be a Mary, Susan or Margaret. I expect Mary was chosen as a Godly woman, the right one to raise Jesus as her own. She gave birth to the humanity side of Jesus. God doesn't have a mother, He is the creator of all things and not created by anyone.

Without scripture how do you discern between truth and error?

Without scripture how do you test to see who the false teachers are? How do you know who is deceiving you and who is not?

Since you believe Mary remained a virgin her entire life, you would be admitting that she sinned, because not consummating her marriage to Joseph would've been a sin.

Edit: scripture says Mary had sons and daughters after Jesus.

THANK YOU!

THANK YOU!

THANK YOU!

There is aboslutely NO scripture to prove this; I read about this Mary thing in full detail not long ago, and what has been done, is they've taken this belief, this interpretation, and bent other verses to support it;

That's why the Catholic church has so many doctrines their followers have to read outside the Bible, because the Bible exposes the blatant falsehood there.

Also,

The cast Mary as an idol!

That violates the 1st commandment and 2nd commandment at the same exact time D:

They even got rid of the 2nd commandment from the Catholic 10 commandments!

Statues of Mary, " Hails " to Mary, bowing down before Mary...really she's not an idol guys?

Just let her go. She was a blessed woman who bore Jesus Christ, but she is not to be worshiped. What power does this woman have that you should kneel before her?

 

[zone]

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

Douay-Rheims Bible:


Matthew 1
24And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. 25And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

...

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him.

John 7
3And his brethren said to him: Pass from hence, and go into Judea; that thy disciples also may see thy works which thou dost. 4For there is no man that doth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, manifest thyself to the world. 5For neither did his brethren believe in him

John 2:17
And his disciples remembered, that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up
7Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.
8I am become a stranger to my brethren, and an alien to the sons of my mother.

Psalm 69
9For the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up: and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me."

~

Luke 1:36
"And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren."

Luke 1:58
"And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her."

cousin means cousin.

~

since all men die (as a result of sin); the Catholic Church had to add to the Immaculate Conception (Mary born without sin; never sinned) the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary:

"The Assumption of the Virgin Mary into Heaven, informally known as The Assumption, according to the beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and parts of Anglicanism, was the bodily taking up of the Virgin Mary into Heaven at the end of her earthly life."

she had to end her life on earth without dying - hence the Assumption.

etc - etc - etc.

...


seriously.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

Douay-Rheims Bible:


Matthew 1
24And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. 25And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

...

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude, and Simon? are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him.

John 7
3And his brethren said to him: Pass from hence, and go into Judea; that thy disciples also may see thy works which thou dost. 4For there is no man that doth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, manifest thyself to the world. 5For neither did his brethren believe in him

John 2:17
And his disciples remembered, that it was written: The zeal of thy house hath eaten me up
7Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.
8I am become a stranger to my brethren, and an alien to the sons of my mother.

Psalm 69
9For the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up: and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER'S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me."

~

Luke 1:36
"And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren."

Luke 1:58
"And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her."

cousin means cousin.

~

since all men die (as a result of sin); the Catholic Church had to add to the Immaculate Conception (Mary born without sin; never sinned) the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary:

"The Assumption of the Virgin Mary into Heaven, informally known as The Assumption, according to the beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, and parts of Anglicanism, was the bodily taking up of the Virgin Mary into Heaven at the end of her earthly life."

she had to end her life on earth without dying - hence the Assumption.

etc - etc - etc.

...


seriously.

Annnd....this is where the " Church Authority," doesn't respond because he can't.

 

[zone]

WOW - just . . . WOW.

Do you mean to tell me that you have been arguing against the Immaculate Conception in post after post - and you don't even know what it means??
You claim that Mary HAS Original Sin otherwise "she wouldn't have had to be saved." This statement is based in an abject ignorance of the Immaculate Conception.

As I pointed out - Mary was saved FROM the stain of Original Sin - not AFTER. She was CONCEIVED immaculately. Indeed, she needed a Savior but that doesn't mean she sinned.

When the Angel visited Mary, he called her "Kecharitomene". It translates as, "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." No othe human being in ALL of Scripture is described this way. In fact, Jesus is the ONLY human who is spoken of more highly.

Your claim that Mary was nothing special other than the fact that she was a mere vessel is Biblically preposterous. Call me crazy, but YOU weren't chosen from all of the women in eternity to be the Mother of Jesus, who is GOD.

sin is transgression of the Law.
perfect, seamless obedience to the Law = no sin.
perfection in holiness and perfect righteousness is more than perfect obedience to the Law.

if Mary was without original sin, never sinned and was specially conceived and was taken bodily to heaven without dying:

what did she need a SAVIOR for?

Douay-Rheims Bible

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name JESUS. For he shall save his people from their sins.

For he shall save (Savior)
his people (was Mary not his people?)
from their sins (Salvation from the penalty of sin - death and hell).

so why did Mary need a Savior?
saved from what?

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.

....

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene.

It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

SOURCE: Immaculate Conception and Assumption | Catholic Answers

Luke 1:28
"And entering, the angel said to her, Hail, one having received grace! The Lord is with you. You are blessed among women!" - LXX - (SOURCE: THE INTERLINEAR BIBLE, Jay P. Green, Sr.; Sovereign Grace Publishers, ISBN: 1-878442-81-3).

Luke 1:28
"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." KJV

The Greek word for "favoured" is charitoo, meaning, "to be highly favoured, make accepted."


Ephesians 1
Unto the praise of the glory of his grace1, in which he hath graced2 us in his beloved son.


1.
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.

Cognate: 5485 xáris (another feminine noun from xar-, "favor, disposed to, inclined, favorable towards, leaning towards to share benefit") – properly, grace. 5485 (xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor – freely extended to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").

5485 /xáris ("grace") answers directly to the Hebrew (OT) term 2580 /Kaná ("grace, extension-toward"). Both refer to God freely extending Himself (His favor, grace), reaching (inclining) to people because He is disposed to bless (be near) them.

[5485 (xáris) is sometimes rendered "thanks" but the core-idea is "favor, grace" ("extension towards").]


2.
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.

Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

 

[ChurchAuthority]

PS: I just saw that you asked me if I prayed to statues. When I was a kid in the Catholic Church, it was full of statues, pictures, and medallions of dead folks that were supposed to be prayed to for this and that. There are special "saints" for special purposes. Even the saint thing is different than scripture. It's an official designation by the pope not just a believer like in scripture. The whole church thing is to make everything officially controlled by Rome. It all came from the Roman Empire and is still run like a political state because that is what the Vatican is. If you're Catholic, you're paying taxes (tithing) to Rome. I am free from that system as well as the Protestant system which has it's own corrupt doctrine that it neglected to purge during the Reformation. That being the torture forever in fire of unbelievers which is not in a correct translation of scripture. Neither is the Trinity. God's ultimate plan is to be all in all. That is made possible by Christ's sacrifice. Creation and reconciliation have the same scope.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyUBUG8bmqEFvXPe26iDtyw

Ahhh, a bitter anti-Trinitarian ex-Catholic. Could there BE a more interesting combination?

 

[Abiding]

Truthfully to be a kinsman-redeemer theres an element there
that would needed sinful representation. In otherwords if Mary
was sinless the whole thing would be invalid.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Where is the verse that the angel calls her Kecharitomene? Let me guess, the cathechism?

She wouldn't need a savior if she wasn't born with original sin.

The immaculate conception is only that she conceived without having to lay with a man; that is what made it immaculate because only God could do such a miracle.


Mary was like a prophet; like Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekial etc - people blessed by God to perpetuate his gospel work. That is it, blessed people.

They are not worthy of praise, and they are not worthy of honor;

You bow down to Mary, you praise her, you give her honor - lol that is for God alone.

Again...

Why do you idolize her?

You keep trying to defend it as if it's okay, but even through that your confessing that you worship an idol.

Again, I begin with a great, big WOW.
The Immaculate Conception is not about Mary conceiving Jesus. It is about MARY'S conception. The fact that you don't know this and continue to ignorantly argue the point is pathetic.

Secoondly, you have repeatedly LIED about Catholic doctrine regarding Mary. We don't worship mary. We worship God and God ALONE. In case you forgot - bearing false witness is a sin.

Thirdly, Kecharitomene is a GREEK word, as I already told you. You won't find it in ANY English translation, but you will find it in the Greek manuscripts.
Here's a clue for you: The New Testament wasn't written in English. It was written in GREEK.
The Angel Gabriel said to Mary, "χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη" - "Hail Kecharitomene".

Finally, if you're going to argue this or any other point regarding the Catholic Church, do yourself a favor and do you HOMEWORK. It is getting rather embarrassing watching you trip and fall because you refuse to do even the most rudimentary research.

I can't keep doing it for you . . .

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Truthfully to be a kinsman-redeemer theres an element there
that would needed sinful representation. In otherwords if Mary
was sinless the whole thing would be invalid.

Why??
She was ONLY sinless because of her Son.

 

[zone]

Ahhh, a bitter anti-Trinitarian ex-Catholic. Could there BE a more interesting combination?

are you even supposed to be talking to us?:




Perhaps one of the most important events in the history of the Roman Catholic Church is the Council of Trent (1545–1563). This gathering sought to counter and respond to the Protestant Reformation. It was at this ecumenical meeting that Rome ultimately anathematized, or condemned, the biblical doctrine of justification:

Canon 9: If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.1

Canon 14: If anyone says that man is absolved from his sins and justified because he firmly believes that he is absolved and justified, or that no one is truly justified except him who believes himself justified, and that by this faith alone absolution and justification are effected, let him be anathema.2

Canon 24: If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works, but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.3

Canon 30: If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.4

Canon 33: If anyone says that the Catholic doctrine of justification as set forth by the holy council in the present decree, derogates in some respect from the glory of God or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ, and does not rather illustrate the truth of our faith and no less the glory of God and of Christ Jesus, let him be anathema.5

....


The Christian will recognize that these condemnations of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone stand in direct contradiction to Scripture and amount to an anathema upon the Gospel itself. Romans 3:20–28, 4:3, 5:1, Galatians 3:1–3, Ephesians 2:8–9 and Colossians 2:13–14 are just a few of the numerous passages that address the various condemnations which Rome set forth at the Council of Trent.

AT A GLANCE

[see side-by-side comparison chart of Roman Catholicism vs Biblical Christianity]

Roman Catholicism | Christian Research Network < click

~

my personal favorite:

Canon 30: If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema.4

 

[zone]

Why??
She was ONLY sinless because of her Son.

she was miraculously conceived herself - to be without sin.

if you have some Biblical evidence of God decreeing Mary would be miraculously conceived (preserved unfallen; without sin) before Jesus was born, please by all means present it.

 

[RickShafer]

Why??
She was ONLY sinless because of her Son.

She needed to be redeemed then.
Her Son did not.
Where is God in the picture?
Mary or Jesus?

 

[ChurchAuthority]

Luke 1: 26 - 33

All it says is that the Lord found favor with Mary; that was it man. God also found favor with Abraham, Noah tons of other people. So why aren't you bowing down to statues of them?

Verse 48 says that all will call Mary blessed, which she was, but so was the dozens of other prophets and people in the Bible. Even Jesus said his disciples were blessed because they could perceive the knowledge of heaven;

Matthew 13: 10 - 13

No I wasn't the mom of Jesus, but that's all Mary was; his physical mother. Even Mary bowed down before Christ and glorified him as he so deserved.

She also had to be saved by him meaning that she had to be saved from sin. Jesus came for the sinners; not the righteous. Mary was a servant of God - a SERVANT. Why are you bowing down to a servant?

Righteous? I thought you Anti-Catholics rejected the idea that ANYBODY was righteous (Romans 3:10).
Oh, and Mary wasn't simply the mother of the physical Body of Jesus. Ever heard of the Hypostatic Union?? Of course you haven't because you don't do your homework.

Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. He unites to Hiself those TWO natures and the TWO natures cannot be separated.
This is the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union, which is believed and taught by Catholics and MOST Protestants.
Mary carried Jesus Christ - His Hypostatic Union in her womb - not just his physicality. To say otherwise is HERESY. As a metter of fact, it was this very heresy (Nestorianism) that caused the convening of the 1st Concil of Ephesus where both the doctrines of the Hypostatic Union and Theotokos were declared.

Theotokos means God-Bearer and it relates to - you guessed it . . . MARY.

There ends the lesson for the day.

 

[ChurchAuthority]

She needed to be redeemed then.
Her Son did not.
Where is God in the picture?
Mary or Jesus?

Uhhhh, let's start from the beginning.
Open up your bible to Revelation 13:8. What does it say?

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world".

Christ's sacrifice is an ETERNAL one. God can apply salvation from that sacrifice to ANYBODY He pleases because He is NOT subject to time for He is ETERNAL.

Mary was made sinless ONLY by God's grace. She did not achieve it on her own.
Kecharitomene . . .